asked the Minister for Agriculture the present position with regard to the milk cessation scheme.
Ceisteanna - Questions. Oral Answers. - Milk Cessation Scheme.
1.
The selections have now been completed and the successful applicants have been notified. A total of approximately 3.5 million gallons has been made available for the 1984-85 marketing year and between 7.5 and eight million gallons will be available for each of the four following years. The quotas purchased are being reallocated to cover the disease and other special category cases provided for in the EC regulations.
What happened the 17 million gallons originally applied for under this scheme?
Approximately four million gallons were withdrawn. There was a date by which people could reverse their original request.
That is still a long way from the original 17 million.
We were left with 13 million. Our objective was to provide seven million per year. The majority of the 13 million gallons left were produced by people who applied for the scheme in 1984-85. Only 3.5 million were free in the marketing year 1984-85. That is the reason why the amount is less than seven million for that year.
Is it true that six lotteries were held in the Department to decide on how to allocate the seven million gallons.
That is true. It was because of the continual withdrawal of people from the scheme.
There is no need for a national lottery if that is the way it is decided to allocate milk in the Department.
It was in compliance with the scheme as outlined. We did not want to treat anyone unfairly. The prizes are not as generous as those proposed in the national lottery.
Are there not still some adjustments to be made as a result of applicants who were successful now indicating that they now do not wish to proceed with the scheme?
If a person applied and did not withdraw before the stipulated date for withdrawal that person is securely in the net. He cannot do anything about it at this stage. He is legally bound to partake in the scheme.
Would the Minister agree that this scheme created a number of difficulties for co-ops in the Cavan-Monaghan area? Many of them now find that there is a big flow of milk out of their area as a result of the number of applicants for the scheme.
That fear was expressed by some co-ops in the northern part of the country but as a result of the strong canvassing campaign by the co-ops in question and outside interests — there were even sermons given off the altar — people were advised to withdraw their applications in good time. Many of them did. The type of imbalance the Deputy spoke about did not occur.
Many of us felt it was our duty to advise people against this scheme because we knew that it would have a serious effect on the co-ops and on employment as regards the availability of milk for manufacture.
There was that problem. Certain forces, including the Deputy, have seen to it that the inequities which could have arisen did not do so.
(Limerick West): Can those who applied to participate in the scheme ever return to milk production? Is the Minister telling the House that applicants who did not withdraw from the scheme before the closing date cannot now withdraw from it? My information is that many of them have withdrawn since the closing date. Is the Minister satisfied that this scheme is having the effect he intended it to have?
It makes it a little difficult when I am asked a number of things together.
(Limerick West): In future I will ask the Minister point by point.
People will be free to enter milk production again once the five-year term of the super-levy expires but not before that.
(Limerick West): Even if quotas exist at that time they are still free to return to milk production?
As long as they are accepted they will be paid for the duration of the five-year scheme.
(Limerick West): After that will they be free to return?
Yes.
Therefore the quotas allocated to special categories are only temporary ones?
I am not saying that. We are talking about six years ahead. We presume that other people will drop out and there will be room for people to go back into the production of milk. People are not free to withdraw if they did not do so before the closing date.
(Limerick West): That is not my information.
I had a number of requests from people who wanted to withdraw after the closing date but we told them it was was not allowed. The Deputy asked——
(Limerick West): If the scheme is having the effect the Minister thought it would have.
It is. If we get the full quota of milk for the marketing year 1984-85 very few people will be affected.
(Limerick West): That is a big “if”.
It is in the process of being discussed. I will not prejudice my position by making any comment here or outside the House. I am definite about that. We were working on the basis that there would be quite an amount of flexi-milk available as there normally is up to 2 per cent of national production but because of the super-levy people were very slow to give up milk. We have not had the same amount of milk freely available that would normally be the case. We have to bring in schemes such as the cessation scheme. There are moves afoot to help people in other categories.
Has the Minister got all the details from the co-ops on the amount of milk available? Is the fact that he has not received all the information the reason for the delay in announcing the allocation to the special cases?
We have had difficulty in getting figures from the co-ops on a number of occasions. They do not all have the same level of efficiency when it comes to returning figures which are requested. I do not believe that is a major difficulty in this case. It is due to the withdrawal of applications by those who had originally applied that we have had difficulty. The Deputy spoke about the six draws that were held. That gave rise to major delay.
When will the Minister be in a position to announce a new cessation scheme in conjunction with ICOS?
I would prefer not to go into that. I referred to it earlier in an indirect way but I do not want to get involved since it has not been concluded definitely. What the Deputy is referring to is almost concluded. The goodwill is there. It has been agreed in principle, but the proposed scheme has not been finalised, signed, sealed and delivered. It would be improper to refer to it in any great detail before it is concluded.
Would the Minister agree that the problem with the super-levy has been caused by a lack of decision-taking for 12 months? Confusion reigns supreme.
The Deputy can only damage the likelihood of a settlement by taking that attitude. The matter has been agreed after very careful and delicate negotiations. I initiated a whole series of talks. It was not easy. About three months later we are on the point of having the whole thing signed, sealed and delivered. I do not want to upset that balance.
Arising out of the Minister's earlier reply in which he said farmers cannot apply to get into the scheme after the closing date——
I am not talking about applying to get into the scheme. I am talking about applying to get out of the scheme.
To get out of the scheme, sorry. A number of people were making arrangements to get out of milk production prior to the announcement of the scheme. There now seems to be some discrimination against those people. They do not seem to qualify for the scheme. Can the Minister clarify that?
That is news to me. If the Deputy has any case in mind, I will look into it.
(Limerick West): Would the Minister like to comment on the disposal of quotas on a private basis?
If the land to which the quotas were attached was not sold, or if the lease was not genuine, that type of transfer was illegal. We have notified the co-operative societies accordingly. We will be taking action against any such transaction which we regard as bogus.
What does the Minister regard as a genuine lease? What are the bona fides of the lease?
If there was a lease back clause involved I would regard that as not being genuine.
(Limerick West): Is the Minister aware that this is big business not only between one farmer and another but among middlemen?
I am certainly aware of that. We have notified the co-operatives accordingly.
Question No. 2 has been postponed until next Tuesday.