asked the Taoiseach the system which exists in his Department for reviewing public expenditure programmes administered by his Department to measure the effectiveness and efficiency of such programmes with a view to determining from the point of view of public policy whether such programmes could be carried out more effectively or whether they answer the needs such programmes were originally intended to serve; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Public Expenditure Programmes.
6.
All of my Department's expenditures are subject to continual scrutiny to ensure maximum effectiveness and economy.
The preparation of the annual Estimates involves a lengthy review of the expenditure of my Department in common with all other Departments and offices. Throughout the year there is, in addition, ongoing dialogue between my Department and the Departments of Finance and the Public Service to ensure maximum effectiveness and economy in the expenditure undertaken by the Department.
I begin to feel a great sympathy with the Cardinal-elect of New York in regard to mutual incomprehension——
Deputies
Hear, hear.
What about Gaddafi?
He would never think of that himself.
Is the Taoiseach prepared to make available to this House the monitoring figures to which he referred recently in Cork in regard to the budgetary position and the situation in regard to income and expenditure? The Taoiseach will recall that in Cork he did refer to the fact that he now has available to him monthly monitoring assessments of income and expenditure. Will he make these available to this House?
The procedure adopted hitherto has been to make available at the end of each three month period a review of the situation up to that point in time. The Government have available to them interim reports within that period but the quarterly reports are the medium through which the information is communicated to the public generally.
The Taoiseach indicated in Cork——
It does not arise on this question.
It arises directly out of this question.
If the Deputy will please look at the question again he will see that it is a departmental question.
The question reads:
To ask the Taoiseach the system which exists in his Department for reviewing public expenditure programmes administered...
——by his Department.
I am sorry. The Deputy has misunderstood the position. The system is one that has been introduced and is operated by the Department of Finance in relation to the whole range of public spending by Departments and in relation also to tax receipts. It involves the setting out of a profile of the likely breakdown, month by month throughout the year, of the revenue estimate and expenditure for the year under a large number of headings. It makes it possible each month, cumulatively, to compare actual revenue and actual expenditure with the profile up to that point. The results of these cumulative studies are in fact communicated publicly at the end of each quarter. The interim figures are available to the Government for checking the position for the period within each quarter.
The Taoiseach indicated at a meeting in Cork that he has available to him, and that they are of importance and significance, monthly figures which monitor the emerging budgetary position. I want to ask him if he is prepared to make those monthly figures available to the House. Naturally, the House and the general public are very interested in the manner in which the budgetary situation is developing. If the Taoiseach has these figures — he told the people of Cork that he had them and that they were significant, important and helpful — why is it that he will not make them available to the House?
These figures are of internal use to the Government in the intervening period. The fact that we now have them enables us to avoid the kind of incredible overruns of expenditure or underruns of revenue which led to deficits running into hundreds of millions of pounds greater than those forecast by the Leader of the Opposition when he was Taoiseach. The system we now have is one which in its operation has enabled us to control the budget within £60 million of the budget deficit forecast. The method is operating satisfactorily and is reported upon in public at quarterly intervals. We intend to continue that practice.
The Taoiseach cannot resist any temptation to be tendentious and politically insulting. I am asking a simple straightforward question. The Taoiseach acknowledges that he has this information, monthly information, available to him and the Government as to the manner in which the budgetary situation is developing. I am entitled to demand that if that information is available to the Government it should be made available to the House. I cannot see why the Taoiseach will not make it available. Does it disclose some very damaging and unsatisfactory position? If so, we should know it. The Taoiseach, when he was elected here some time ago, indicated that he was always going to go in for open Government and disclose everything but now we have him this afternoon refusing to answer legitimate parliamentary questions and not disclosing valuable, important and crucial information about the budget which is available to him.
Questions about this should be put to each Minister.
In view of the fact that Government legislation in the form of the Finance Bill which gives effect to the budget in terms of taxation is before the House——
That does not arise.
——does the Taoiseach not consider it proper that such changes that are occurring in revenue or expenditure should be made available to the House, as it is to the Government so that we can have a proper discussion? Will the Taoiseach agree that it is quite extraordinary that the Minister for Defence should be the person authorised by the Government to conduct this public expenditure review?
That is a separate question.
Will the Taoiseach answer? Has he any answers?
(Interruptions.)
The fact that we have this information which our predecessors did not bother to get is the important thing.
(Interruptions.)