asked the Minister for the Environment if he will outline the main recommendations of the Tribunal of Inquiry into the Stardust Fire which have yet to be implemented; if he will indicate the recommendations the Government have not accepted; when the recommendations which have been accepted will be implemented; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Stardust Tribunal Recommendations.
8.
The tribunal report contains a wide range of recommendations and all of these recommendations have been fully considered by the Government and represent a major input to the continuing evolution of the Government policy on fire and to the development of the fire service. Many of the recommendations have already been implemented. Others, of their nature, require implementation on an ongoing basis and this is being done. In the case of a small number of the tribunal's recommendations it was decided, after careful consideration of the wider issues involved and of the overall implications, that it would be better if they were not brought into effect or that a modified version of the recommendations should be implemented.
I want to take this opportunity to emphasis again my commitment, and that of the Government, to the development of the fire service as rapidly and comprehensively as possible. Priority will continue to be given to the financial and other needs of the fire service within the limits of available resources and this is provided for in the Government's plan Building on Reality. The measures already taken have resulted in major improvement in recent years in the financing and equipping of the service, in the organisation and staffing and in the legislative framework, leading to substantial progress in the capability of the service to respond to fire and other emergencies, and to a significant increase in fire prevention activities. Real progress has been made and continues to be made all the time across the whole field of fire safety including:
—fourfold increase, to £10.25 million, in capital provision between 1981 and 1985 resulting in 25 new or reconstructed fire stations and 90 new appliances already provided.
—restructuring of the county council fire services resulting in the creation of 87 new professional posts of which 47 are on fire prevention work and, in addition, 19 officers full time on fire prevention work in the Dublin area.
—the establishment of the Fire Services Council by my predecessor, Deputy Spring, just two years ago resulting in significant improvements in the level and scope of training at national level, including the use of UK and continental facilities and expertise; 20 courses were held by the council over the past two years and 18 to 20 are planned for this year.
—increased training at local and regional level has been facilitated by the additional numbers of instructors being trained by the Fire Services Council.
—revised draft building regulations issued over a year ago and the discussion document on fire safety in places of public assembly together form a modern up-to-date code, which takes account of the tribunal's recommendations, to assist fire officers and others in their work.
—a model emergency plan and guidance documentation prepared in my Department have been issued to local authorities to assist them in emergency planning and this is being backed up by a series of regional seminars conducted by my Department.
—installation of computerised information system on dangerous substances in 11 local authorities and distribution of emergency services hazard information card to all firemen in the country.
—continuing high level of work by the Fire Prevention Council to promote greater awareness of fire hazards among the public at large and special interest groups.
A statement of the kind requested by the Deputy on the main recommendations of the tribunal would have to cover a wide range of issues and would, of necessity, be very lengthy and could not appropriately be made at Question Time. I am arranging, therefore, to have such a statement included in the Official Report.
Following is the statement:
1. Capital Investment
Capital investment in the fire service has increased four-fold over the last five years from £2.5 million in 1981 to a provision of £10.24 million in 1985 with provision for further increased funding in 1986 and 1987. This funding, together with a state subsidy of 50 per cent on fire authority loan charges, has enabled the following since 1981:
—25 new fire stations and major reconstructions completed.
—15 additional fire station projects are currently in hand and another five should begin before the end of the year
—90 new fire appliances were purchased
—major improvements in radio communications, in the provision of breathing apparatus and other fire-fighting and rescue equipment.
2. Staffing
The county fire service was completely restructured in 1982 to increase its effectiveness with emphasis on fire prevention. Prior to this restructuring the only professional post in the county fire service was that of Chief Fire Officer. There are now 87 professional posts in addition to the grade of Chief Fire Officer throughout the country and 47 of them are on fire prevention duties. In addition Dublin Corporation now have 19 officers engaged full time on fire prevention duties. It is anticipated that a competition for the post of Chief Fire Officer in Dublin, filled temporarily at present as recommended in the report of the Stardust Tribunal, will be held in the autumn when potential candidates will have completed necessary training courses.
3. Education and Training.
The tribunal made recommendations on training and education in fire matters and on the need for a national training centre. Major improvements in fire service training have taken place, particularly following the establishment of the Fire Services Council in June 1983. Central training courses have been substantially increased in both scale and scope— the council ran five courses in 1983, 15 in 1984 and 18-20 are planned for 1985. The council make use of training centres in the UK and on the Continent and have brought in lecturers of the highest standing in the field of fire safety engineering. Local training at county and regional levels has increased also due to greater numbers of local instructors being trained by the council. On the question of a national training centre, the council availed of the services of Mr. Gunner Haurum, the Director of the Danish National Fire College to advise them and Mr. Haurum has reported on the matter. Following recent discussions with the council I have asked them to develop their proposals for a national training centre in more detail. I must stress however that the physical location of a training centre is far less important than the provision of course which has been undertaken by the council. The experience gained by the council in providing courses, including information on foreign training, is a valuable input into the council's deliberations and proposals for a national training centre. A number of fire safety engineering courses have also been provided in universities including one early this year which was jointly organised by UCD and the Fire Services Council.
4. Legislation.
The Fire Services Act, 1981, represents a major overhaul of fire service legislation and strengthens the powers of fire authorities to enforce fire safety measures while placing the primary responsibility for fire safety on those incharge of premises used by the public.
Building Regulations.
The building regulations have been extensively revised to take account of the tribunal's recommendations. To ensure the success of the regulations and to provide for minimal disruption of the building industry the Government recognised the need to hold extensive consultations with the relevant professional institutes and other interested bodies. Indeed, this need was recognised also by the Opposition who asked in the Dáil that the Building Control Bill should be deferred until these consultations had been satisfactorily concluded. The consultations have now been completed and the Building Control Bill, which is currently at Committee Stage, will give statutory effect to the regulations. In the meantime the draft revised regulations are being applied as if they had the force of law.
Implementation of the fire related parts of the regulations as recommended by the tribunal was considered but was found to be impractical due to the inter-action between the different parts of the regulations as drafted. The tribunal's recommendations that some form of approval by local or central authority would be required in relation to the fire parts of the regulations has been accepted and there is provision in section 6 of the Building Control Bill for the issue of a fire safety certificate by a building control authority.
Management Regulations.
Management regulations under section 37 of the Fire Services Act, 1981, will provide for fire safety in premises when occupied. As a first step, in 1983 my Department circulated a detailed discussion document on fire safety in places of public assembly. This document gives fire authorities, and indeed all concerned with fire safety, guidance on the level of standards desirable in public assembly premises. The proposals in the discussion document were well received and, taking account of the comments made, the Fire Services Council have prepared a draft code of practice which will accompany the management regulations. The draft code is now being examined by a committee of council members and other experts and the draft code and regulations should be published later this year and will be implemented following necessary consultations.
A separate regulation has, at my request, been drafted in the Department making it an offence to lock fire exit doors while a premises is in use. I intend that this regulation will be introduced immediately following certain necessary consultations. An offence under these regulations will carry a maximum fine of £10,000 and/or two years imprisonment.
5. Responsibility for the Fire Service and Question of an Inspectorate
The tribunal recommended changes in the responsibility of the Minister in relation to the fire service and proposed the establishment of an inspectorate of fire services. Detailed examination of these recommendations indicated specific difficulties of which the main difficulty would be the underlying principle of the proposal as it would affect local autonomy. This would be totally at variance with the Government's proposals for devolution to local authorities. While it is not proposed to make the fundamental changes recommended by the tribunal nevertheless, with the help of the Fire Services Council, I am now much better equipped to discharge my advisory and supervisory role.
6. Emergency Planning
The tribunal referred to emergency plans and the importance of following recommended procedures. My Department have been providing extensive advice and assistance to local authorities on this matter:
—A model emergency plan has been prepared and issued to local authorities accompanied by an extensive package of guidance documentation.
—My Department are currently runing a series of regional seminars on emergency planning for local authorities.
—Eleven local authorities are installing the Chemdata computer-based information system which is designed to provide vital information for dealing with an incident involving dangerous substances.
—A working group including representatives from the chemical industry are examining the means of improving the level of response to chemical incidents and the possibility of greater co-operation between the chemical industry and the local authorities on this matter.
—An emergency services hazard information card has been prepared and copies issued for every fireman in the country together with detailed guidance notes for the fire service on the transportation of dangerous substances.
7. Fire Prevention Council
The tribunal referred to the value of publicity aimed at increasing the general level of public awareness of fire hazards and the important role of the Fire Prevention Council. The Fire Prevention Council are funded jointly by my Department and the Federation of Insurers in Ireland to promote public awareness of fire hazards through publicity, advertising and a wide range of seminars and conferences. The level of funding has significantly increased from £100,000 in 1980 to £232,000 in 1985 which has enabled the council to carry out an expanded programme of activity.
I thank the Minister for his detailed reply, but a number of points arise from it. He indicated that a code had been prepared for fire officers for use in their day to day work regarding places of public resort. Can he indicate to what extent fire officers have checked out places of public resort such as discos, stadia and so forth to ensure that regulations that exist are being complied with? Could he indicate also if since the Stardust tragedy any orders under section 20 (1) of the Fire Services Act, 1981, the safety notice section, have been served?
The Fire Services Act, 1981, contains a wide range of powers for fire officers to deal with fire safety in buildings and the issue of fire safety notices prohibiting the use of a building or part of it for any specific purpose or prohibiting the use of a building altogether until specified precautions have been taken. Under the terms of section 23 of the Act in particularly serious cases the fire authority can apply to the High Court for orders restricting or prohibiting the use of a building. Both management regulations and the Building Control Bill will impose severe penalties, a fine of £10,000 and two years' imprisonment for breach of the regulations. In the circumstances it is not considered that there is a pressing need to change the legislation. Nevertheless, the matter is being kept under review. As to the number of visits made by inspectors, I do not have that information before me but I can certainly find it out for the Deputy. As it is a matter for the local authority concerned I have not got it at present in my brief.
The question I asked related to section 20 (1) of the Fire Services Act and I would appreciate information concerning the number of notices served under that section, but the Minister has not got it at present. He is aware, I am sure, that the tribunal recommended that the District Court should have the power to close a premises which is found to be in breach of any of the building regulations. The Fire Services Act already has the power through the High Court. Does the Minister not consider that, in view of the tribunal's recommendations, this power should be given to the District Court?
At this stage I do not propose to comment on this section of it. I would prefer to have notice of that question so that I can have all the information available given to me so that I can give an adequate reply, but if the Deputy wishes I will have it included in the statement which I have suggested I will make on the wider implications of this.
Would the Minister state whether he has received a letter in relation to this matter from the chairman of the Stardust Victims Committee?
In the recent past an amount of correspondence has passed about the problems of the Stardust victims and, in view of the situation in dealing with them and the fact that they have taken legal advice in this matter. I do not propose to comment on the correspondence which I have received.
I find that reply from the Minister quite extraordinary. Is he not aware that the chairman of the Stardust Victims Committee has written recently to him as Minister in connection with these recommendations and has sought certain information and assurances in regard to these matters and recommendations of the tribunal's report in relation to building regulations, fire safety precautions and so on? Can the Minister confirm that he has received that letter and whether he intends to reply to it? Let me point out to him that the letter I am talking about and these matters here have nothing to do with the cases which the families are taking to the courts?
The letter received in my Department is being studied by my officials. As I have said, I am aware of the cases which are being considered by the legal profession on behalf of the Stardust victims and I have to be sure that any correspondence between me and any member of the victims will not be used as some sort of evidence in court cases which may occur. When I get clearance from my legal section I will then consider what my reply might be.
I am sorry to have to say that by his reply to me the Minister has indicated that he has not read that letter. Is the Minister aware that these families, while rightly concerned with compensation, are perhaps even more concerned that a tragedy similar to the Stardust should never recur in this country and that as a group of families and victims they are deeply anxious that the recommendations of the tribunal report in regard to these safety matters—nothing to do with compensation—should be implemented? They have written to the Minister asking him, in line with Deputy De Rossa's question, the extent to which the recommendations have so far been implemented and they have sought certain information and assurances in that connection. I ask the Minister, if he has not already done so, to reply immediately to the chairman of the victims' committee. The letter to which I am referring has been addressed to the Minister and has nothing whatever to do with the legal matter of compensation.
I would suggest to the Leader of the Opposition that he should instruct his Whip to allow the Committee Stage of the Building Control Bill to proceed through the House. It has been held up now for some months awaiting a decision by the Opposition as to when it will be allowed to proceed.
You are a disgrace.
I am moving to questions nominated for priority.
The Building Control Bill has not been held up for months by the Opposition. There was an attempt to bring it in before the local elections.
May I protest that for five minutes you allowed Deputy Haughey to speak on my question?
I am sorry about that.
I am moving to questions nominated for priority.