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Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 6 Nov 1985

Vol. 361 No. 6

Private Members' Business. - Weather Crisis for Farmers: Motion (Resumed).

The following motion was moved by Deputy Noonan(Limerick West) on Tuesday, 5 November 1985:
That Dáil Éireann, recognising the magnitude of the crises faced by many Irish farmers as a result of the poor summer weather, calls on the Government to:
(1) make available, as a matter of urgency, financial aid to those most seriously affected as identified by ACOT and those crop farmers who need to buy seed for next year;
(2) immediately re-assess means under the Smallholders Unemployment Assistance Scheme in the light of the effects of the disaster;
(3) increase headage payments to the maximum allowed;
(4) speed up the payment of headage grants;
(5) extend headage grants to newly designated areas this year, not next;
(6) provide low fixed-interest loans through the European Investment Bank; and
(7) encourage the banks and the ACC to help farmers bridge their present difficulties.
Debate resumed on amendment No. 1:
To delete all words after "That" and substitute the following:
"Dáil Éireann expresses its support for the wide range of measures which the Government has taken to alleviate the difficulties encountered by many Irish farmers as a result of the bad weather during the summer months."
—(Minister for Agriculture).

Last night I referred to the payment which would be made between now and the end of 1985 to farmers, especially those in disadvantaged areas. Some 20,000 flockowners in the 1985 sheep headage scheme in the disadvantaged areas are now being paid £10 million at the rate of £9.50 per ewe. They could get another £7 million if the EC fixes the amount of the 30 per cent advance of the 1985 ewe premium in time. However, that is a matter for the EC to decide and we are pushing it for a decision. Over 50,000 applicants in the cattle headage and beef cow schemes in the disadvantaged areas will be paid a total of about £21 million. Forty one thousand applicants will be paid £7 million in premium grants under the 1985 suckler cow scheme and this payment is being made five months earlier than normal. Thirty six thousand applicants will be paid some £5 million in 1985 calf premium grants. A great deal of credit is due to the field staff of my Department who speeded up inspections of these animals and they have been working hard since August in this regard. Last year, in the period between August and the end of the year, we paid a total of £33 million in headage grants and other support schemes; this year we will be paying out about £50 million to the same group of farmers. Priority will be given, where possible, to farmers in areas which were severely affected by the weather.

Because of budgetary constraints I cannot raise the headage payments to the maximum level permitted by the EC of 101 ECUs, that is £75.75 on each livestock unit in the 1985 scheme, which would cost an extra £49 million before recoupment of 50 per cent from the EC. Even after recoupment a year later the extra cost would still be very substantial at £24,500,000. The national plan provides for an increase in the rate of payment on beef cows in 1986 from £32 to £70. This substantial increase will benefit some 45,000 beef cow farmers in the disadvantaged areas and put almost £11 million extra into those areas in a full year.

I am not in a position to make grants available in the new and reclassified disadvantaged areas in respect of the 1985 headage schemes as it would cost £7 million in the current year and no provision was made for this in the Estimate. As to the proposal for reassessment of means under the smallholders' unemployment assistance scheme, I wish to point out that in June the Minister of State at the Department of Social Welfare announced revised arrangements for dealing with claims for unemployment assistance for smallholders in western areas. Under these arrangements a smallholder who wishes to have his means reviewed will, on application, have his means investigated by a social welfare officer.

Regarding the suggestion that loans should be provided through the European Investment Bank at low fixed interest rates, the position is that the European Investment Bank provide long term fixed interest loans for capital investment purposes. In the past, such loans obtained from the EIB were lent to farmers by the ACC for periods of approximately ten years. The interest applying to these loans was in the region of 14 per cent and any similar facility which might be arranged at present would probably be at a rate in the region of 12 per cent to 13 per cent. The European Investment Bank are not in the market for supplying short term loans, that is loans of less then seven years, and therefore the suggestion put forward does not really relate to the problems confronting farmers at present.

I support Deputy Noonan's suggestion that the ACC and the banks should take full account of the hardship experienced by farmers following the bad weather and should help them to overcome their present difficulties. Farmers who, as a result of these adverse weather conditions, find difficulty in meeting repayments on working capital loans should not feel that short term problems will lead to any punitive action by the lending institutions. The Government have responded very generously to the difficult situation by agreeing to provide assistance for farmers in difficulty to purchase winter feed. Government assistance will be in the form of a feed voucher scheme over the whole country which will enable farmers who have a serious shortage of winter feed to buy feeding stuffs. This scheme will be based on £14 million from the Exchequer and 125,000 tonnes of intervention grain at 75 per cent of the intervention price from the EC. The overall level of aid is substantial given the current difficult budgetary situation here and in the European Community.

In deciding on the form of assistance to be made available, my main concern was to ensure that farmers were given the type of assistance they needed and that the assistance was directed at farmers in greatest need. Since the main problem facing farmers is a shortage of winter feed for their livestock, it seems reasonable that the assistance should be in the form of feed vouchers to enable them to purchase winter feed. These vouchers, which will be available all over the country, can be used by farmers against purchases of compound feeds. The vouchers will consist of two parts, a cash element representing the Exchequer contribution and a credit conferring an entitlement to intervention grain at 75 per cent of the intervention price at the time the grain is removed from store.

I should like to emphasise two points here. First, about 75 per cent of the voucher will be in the form of cash which can be used against winter feed and I am satisfied that the full value of this part of the voucher will be passed on to the farmers. The second point is that individual farmers will not be expected to present the grain element of the voucher to my Department in exchange for intervention grain. The intention is that farmers will negotiate a value for this part of the voucher with their local grain merchant on the basis of the prevailing market and intervention prices. The merchant will make feed available to the farmer to this value as well as to the value of the cash element. The merchants will submit the vouchers to my Department in exchange for cash and cheap intervention grain. Alternatively, merchants may pass on the vouchers to larger merchants or feed compounders.

My guiding principle is to ensure that assistance is given to the farmers who need it most. The scheme is confined to farmers who are mainly dependent on farming, whose off-farm income combined with that of their spouse does not exceed £6,400 per annum, those who do not have more than 60 livestock units and those who have less than 75 per cent of winter feed requirements for their livestock. I cannot tell exactly what the rate will be until the applications come in but we estimate that although over 70,000 farmers will submit applications between 50,000 and 70,000 farmers will be eligible.

There have been suggestions that the Government response to the fodder problem should be in the form of increased headage payments in the disadvantaged areas without any regard to the fodder situation of the recipients. With the rather limited Exchequer resources available, it is necessary for us to adopt a selective scheme aimed at genuine hardship cases. Giving increased headage payments in the disadvantage areas without regard to the actual fodder needs of the farmers concerned would mean aid for some farmers who may have no fodder problems at all. Also the fodder problem is not confined to disadvantaged areas and a blanket scheme like that would result in a situation where farmers in other parts of the country could not be assisted. Such farmers would be justifiably aggrieved that other farmers who did not have any problem got assistance from the Government and the inequity must be obvious to everybody. Neither do I think it fair to ask taxpayers to fund such a scheme.

Deputy Noonan said last night that I had refused to go along with a scheme put forward by one of the farming organisations in the past couple of weeks. I did not refuse, I have the matter under review and we do not have any insuperable problems with the EC in this regard. There was a belief that we might be ruled out of order if we brought in the scheme for one year only. We can overcome that problem and we are keeping the matter under review with regard to budgetary constraints and the Estimates which are at present being drawn up. As I said, I will examine the matter.

(Limerick West): When will the Minister's examination be completed?

I am trying to work to a very tight schedule.

Perhaps the Chair will give me an extra minute or two?

I am examining the matter of giving some aid in the form of subsidised interest loans to tillage farmers, whether they are cereal growers or growers of commodities such as protein peas and so on. I hope in the next week to be able to announce something along those lines.

Overall the Government have responded generously to a very difficult situation. We have provided a silage scheme that has been taken up by 24,000 farmers. We are making available immediately £50 million by speeding up the headage payments system. The Government are putting in a sum of £17,500,000, together with the £4,250,000 from the EC.

I am calling Deputy O'Rourke. Fianna Fáil have 23 minutes and they have divided it as follows: five minutes for Deputy O'Rourke; five minutes for Deputy Brennan and 13 minutes for Deputy Walsh.

I wish to support the motion in the name of our spokesman on Agriculture. In the short time available to me I wish to focus on a matter connected with the flooding of the Shannon Valley. I realise it is not under the direct authority of the Minister for Agriculture but I ask him to make a case to the Minister of State at the Department of Finance.

I wish to make the case for the setting up of a special Shannon authority. The reason is obvious. Farmers who live south of Athlone, on the east bank of the Shannon, have been subjected to flooding for many years. I was born and grew up in Athlone and I remember the severe flooding in the winter of 1954. Following that, an American civil engineer, Mr. Rydell, came to Ireland and he issued the famous Rydell report. I am sure the Minister is aware of this report but if he is not I shall refresh his mind. Having toured the Shannon Valley, Mr. Rydell made many suggestions. One related to overall drainage which is not feasible. No matter how often that dream was used as a siren call at numerous elections, full drainage of the Shannon is not on. In his recommendations he called for something that has been re-echoed in every major seminar and conference on the Shannon. These seminars have been called by the ESB, the Office of Public Works, local authorities, development associations and tourist authorities. All of them have asked for an overall Shannon authority that would have within its control the regulating of all matters relating to the Shannon.

Farmers in my constituency are used to flooding on an annual basis from October to March. Their land cannot be used during that time. Last summer early in July their lands became flooded and by the middle of August they were totally unusable. It has been said that farmers should have got into silage earlier in the year but that was not a feasible solution on the lands I am talking about because of the nature and terrain of the area.

The Office of Public Works have responsibility for navigation on the Shannon and the ESB have responsibility for maintaining water levels for power purposes. Both of them operate within their own regulations, many of which are outdated. However, they operate without any liaison with one another.

In September I walked on Meelick weir. I know the Minister visited many areas, as he pointed out in detail last night. If he had visited Meelick weir he would have seen that half of the eyes are not working which means that water cannot flow through them. Maintenance work is not being carried out on the side of the banks of the Shannon simply because it is not the responsibility of any one body. The Office of Public Works, the ESB and the local authorities eschew this work.

I ask the Minister to use his good offices with the Minister of State, Deputy Bermingham, in connection with this matter. He seems to think there is nothing wrong with the Shannon but that is not so. What is needed is some simple maintenance work. I am talking about dredging, about side line maintenance and keeping weirs and eyes of weirs open to ensure a proper water course and water flow. This would help the farmers in my area, as would the setting up of a Shannon authority. Other members of my party will deal with matters such as the shortfall in fodder and payments for disadvantaged areas. I ask the Minister to consider what I have said and to convey my remarks to the relevant Minister.

I will do that.

The past summer has imposed severe hardship on farmers in my constituency. I know the Minister visited the west during August. Last night he told us he visited the agricultural show at Ballina and also shows in other areas. We talk about damage in the Shannon valley but the Owenmore and the Arrow rivers in my constituency need attention.

I visited those places.

I will mention also the Bonet river in north Leitrim which is being drained. Farmers in the catchment areas of the rivers Arrow and Owenmore should get special treatment also because they suffer every year when we have freak floods. This year they suffered most severely. When Mr. Joe Rea visited a farmer in that area in August he found that the farmer had housed his dairy herd fulltime and he was then feeding them on silage that was intended for the winter.

I am disappointed that the Minister did not pay double headage payments in the disadvantaged areas as was done in 1981. The agricultural advisers are visiting farmers to see if they will qualify for grants for silage. They will also assess them to see if they qualify for grain vouchers. What will all of this cost? One way out of the difficulty was to pay double headage payments to those in disadvantaged areas.

I come from the west and this summer we had the worst weather we ever experienced during summer months. I remember being in Dáil Éireann in early July and the weather was nice but in the west it was raining every day. The farmers in Sligo, Leitrim, Donegal and Cavan have been hit more severely than farmers in any part of Ireland, I work on a small farm and I know this is true. The Minister even now should give double headage payments to farmers in those disadvantaged areas.

The Owenmore river should have been drained many years ago but consecutive Governments have not done so. In my view it should have been done when the arterial drainage was included in the western drainage scheme. That scheme has been discontinued and I hope the Government will do something about it.

I would like to make a few comments in support of the Fianna Fáil motion asking for additional aid for the farming community because of the damage done to their crops due to adverse weather earlier this year. Thankfully the weather has improved. Without apology I want to make a case for further aid.

Many people think the farming community are privileged people, but the reality is that the majority of them, particularly those who lost most, have incomes considerably less than the average industrial wage. These people live mainly in the west. The amount being given to agriculture as a percentage of the overall Estimates is reducing all the time. In 1985 the total contribution to agriculture was £252 million, less than 5 per cent of the national Estimates. Agriculture is lauded day in and day out as the backbone of our economy, an area which employs up to 50 per cent of the work force, directly or indirectly, and is responsible for 50 per cent of our net exports, but it does not fare very well when it comes to sharing the national cake.

I do not think the response to the difficulties experienced by the farming community this year has been adequate. Looking at the rag bag of measures provided this year, totalling £17.5 million, under any heading the maximum which any farmer will get is £500. A person in the Shannon area will get a maximum of £20 per livestock unit. Hay this year is costing £4 per bale. Twenty pounds would only buy five bales. How can an animal live for five months on five bales? I do not know. I do not believe this will make any contribution to solving these difficulties. It is sad that the major contributor to the national economy is in dire trouble. This fact has been recognised by the EC. When he visited Ireland Mr. Legras said this was a national disaster and that a member state was entitled to support from Brussels, but it was regrettable that, nationally, we were not able to do anything about it.

In the Minister's script last night we came across references to budgetary constraints. I know the Minister wanted to help the farming community and it is regrettable that the Taoiseach and the Minister for Finance did not allow additional moneys to be made available, especially when Brussels were prepared to meet each £ contributed by the national Exchequer on a £ for £ basis. I want to compliment the major farming organisations for announcing their contribution of £7 million, with an additional £7 million from the national Exchequer, making £14 million. This means that £28 million would be made available to improve the cash flow in farming areas. It is a pity that was not availed of, nor was the increase in the headage payments availed of.

Since the major problem was in the 12 western counties, the additional payments under the headage scheme would have helped the people in that area to increase the cash flow without a consequent increase in administrative costs. It is a pity that the reclassified areas could not have been facilitated by payments during 1985. This showed a lack of interest by the Department of Agriculture in the problems facing the west. People were informed that they were in severely handicapped areas and were entitled to headage payments in March 1985, but when the inspections took place in August they were told the herds would not be read until 1985. That was regrettable.

In the Minister's script last night there was mention of a figure of £27 million as a costing for the extension, but in tonight's script that figure was changed to £7 million. In my opinion that is an exaggeration. Three million pounds or £4 million would be nearer the mark. We know that officials of the Department are liable to juggle with figures, and whether the figure is £27 million or £7 million may not be of significance to some of them, but to the farming community it would be of very great significance.

I support this motion to help not just farmers but the entire agricultural industry. There is no point in just talking about agriculture and its contribution to the national economy if we are not prepared to fund it, if at the drop of a hat, to facilitate some of the left wingers in Government who want a National Development Corporation, we are prepared to expend up to £300 million on that corporation, but we cannot contribute an additional £7 million to agriculture which would mean a further £14 million from the EC. This would ensure that for this year's winter and the spring of 1986 the farming community would be in a position to maintain their stock and their cow herds.

We have the constraint of the super-levy and the self-imposed constraint in that there is no longer a farm modernisation scheme. We have been promised a new farm improvement scheme, but we see no evidence of it. I submit that the bulk of this £17 million which is being juggled around under different headings is a saving from different areas of agriculture. Because of the adverse weather conditions farmers were not able to avail of the grant aids which were available and they now find themselves without any farming schemes.

The younger farmers, Macra na Feirme in particular, have made the point that their counterparts in the other member states have available to them establishment aid grants and in-station premia, but unfortunately the Department of Agriculture have not been able to implement that scheme here. I suspect their colleagues in the Department of Finance will turn down any request for aid to agriculture. How many more times——

That is not true.

——will the Minister for Agriculture come to the Cabinet table looking for amounts due to them and be turned down and told that agriculture is not the priority and that they need the money for the National Development Corporation or anything other than agriculture? The Minister and his Ministers of State should tell the Department of Finance that they are sick and tired of being turned down when looking for finance to develop farming, agricultural processing, marketing of agricultural products and so on and that they need a fair share of the cake. The Minister should tell the Department that he is getting only 5 per cent of the entire estimate for the running of this country, for agriculture, that he has to make do with the national agriculture export promotion boards having to try to do their business with less than £1 million whereas in the industrial area the amount of money provided is at least 30 times that, that he wants to see a greater relevance for agriculture at the Cabinet table and to see the Department of Finance giving greater priority to agriculture, and that he would have liked to see the crisis which has developed as a result of adverse weather conditions given a sense of reality to the people responsible for the provision of finance in this area.

I support the Fianna Fáil motion before this House for increased aid to the farming community, not so much for the farmers but for the entire agricultural industry as a base for our national economy. We cannot allow farmers in need of cash flow to face this winter without additional aid.

I support the Minister's amendment. The aid provided by the Government and the EC is welcomed by a large majority of farmers in difficulty. Neither the farming organisations nor farmers expected the Government to compensate everybody with fodder problems or with tillage problems on a £ for £ basis. What was asked for was compensation for farmers who lost the majority of their winter fodder and the Minister reacted to this in the package he has announced. During this debate it was said that none of the fodder provided in the scheme had been made available. This is winter fodder and it is not supposed to be made available until required during the winter months from mid-November to March or April next year. The Minister reacted positively.

It was required in August of this year in some areas. We do not all live in the royal counties.

Last night there were complaints about farmers who qualify under the 60 livestock units. The Deputies were somewhat mixed up when they stated that the people under 60 livestock units would not qualify. All of them up to and including 60 livestock units will qualify. I am sorry that the Deputy who made that statement is not here tonight to listen to the realities.

(Limerick West): If we had known the Deputy would be speaking we would have had them all in.

There were not so many anxious to come in when Deputy Noonan was speaking and Fianna Fáil have more members than we have.

We intend to keep it that way.

I do not understand the calls from the Opposition to the Minister for a full amount of compensation to be paid across the board in the disadvantaged areas whether or not people require it. The Opposition called for money for farmers to buy fodder, which is not available at this time of year. If we provided cash, all we would do would be to put up the cost of the fodder available and only farmers with extra cash would be able to buy it. This would lead to the poorer person being left with a smaller chance of receiving aid.

The argument made by the Opposition that the Government have done nothing positive is wrong. The last speaker talked about money being made available, with no money at the Cabinet table. When Deputies look back over the last three years, on every occasion when there was a crisis or a problem in agriculture, the Minister delivered on the problem and on the realities faced not alone in Ireland but in Europe. The Opposition are continually knocking any good done in the present circumstances. The economy is short of cash but I will not go into the reasons why. The people on the Opposition benches were four years spending money we had not got.

(Interruptions.)

It is time to realise you are in Government. Say something new.

As a result we have less money to go around now. Fianna Fáil react when they are hurt by my going to the core of the problems.

(Interruptions.)

I am delighted that Fianna Fáil are getting annoyed. Would the Deputies like me to go into the facts and figures?

Deputies

Yes.

The Deputy should not provoke interruption.

It is nice to think I am annoying them. They are easily annoyed.

(Interruptions.)

We want the facts.

Fianna Fáil administered, in a three year period, a real reduction of farm incomes to the order of 52 per cent.

Where did you get that?

(Interruptions.)

If people find themselves in real financial difficulties today it is because of the foundation of financial difficulty Fianna Fáil led them into.

(Interruptions.)

All the Fianna Fáil Deputies who were here at that time when inflation was at 21 and 22 per cent and interest rates were at 22 per cent or 23 per cent, contributed to that situation.

(Interruptions.)

When Deputy Noonan was involved in opening milking parlours and so on they did not take into consideration the real difficulties for the rest of the Irish community. We must remember why many farmers find themselves in difficulty today after one very poor, disastrous summer. Listening to the Opposition for the last four or five months one would think that this Government have control of the weather.

The Deputy should conclude.

I am sorry to say that that was not so. I welcome the fact that the Minister is working to ensure that our farmers will have money available to them at the right cost so that they will get their crops in for the harvest.

(Limerick West): We have heard nothing about that yet.

I do not think for one moment that what the Opposition are saying is true — that if they were in Government things would be OK. We would be equally badly off despite the promises they have made to the farmers up to now.

It is my pleasure to have the opportunity to speak here tonight. It is important that we recognise the tremendous effort that the Government have made to make finance available to the farmers in this year which has been very difficult from many points of view but particularly because of the downpours we had all summer. Obviously, the Opposition have not listened to the Minister, or they are not aware of what he has done for the farming community. Listening last night to some of the Opposition speakers one was horrified to discover that they did not even realise the implications or the details of the schemes being introduced by the Minister. I want to put on record the assistance that the Minister and the Government have made available to farmers in this difficult year.

Let us consider the nitrogen, the fertiliser scheme which got much criticism from Deputies over there. Nevertheless, 24,000 applications for the scheme have been made already; 24,000 farmers have availed of this facility. Let us examine the question of the silage subsidy which again got much criticism. The number of applications for that scheme highlights how important it was. In my area many farmers who had not made silage previously and were using hay as the basic feed have now become involved in silage making and many of them will qualify for £4 per tonne for the first 50 tonnes of silage. Again up to 24,000 farmers have applied for this scheme.

I agree with the Minister who said last night that one thing we all have a duty to do is to encourage a changeover from dependence on hay to silage. This year too many farmers left themselves vulnerable because they were dependent on hay as a basic feed. I welcome the scheme for the Shannon valley and Suck valley aid.

(Interruptions.)

Do not be jealous. I want to compliment the Minister on the efforts he has made to make finance available to farmers who faced devastation in that region. Many of them found their incomes totally whittled away as a result of the floods over which they had no control. I feel very strongly about the question of the control of the River Shannon. This is an issue to which at some later stage this House must address itself. I have no doubt that the £20 per livestock unit which that scheme provides will help many of those farmers to retain and feed their stock over the winter. I ask the Minister to examine the possibility of having the Shannon-Suck valley aid extended northwards along the Suck to include areas like Athleague, Fuerty and Ballymoe which have suffered particularly from the flooding.

I welcome the decision of the Government and the Minister to bring forward the payment of headage grants because this will make finance available to many hard-pressed farmers to buy winter feed for their stocks. The amount of money channelled by the Government into this scheme and the fact that payments are to be made early will be a decisive advantage. The Minister will be paying 20,000 flock owners some £10 million in ewe subsidies.

He will be paying them anyway.

This money is coming out early and it will assist many farmers to provide winter feed for their stock. I welcome this decision also. We must welcome the early payment of headage grants under the cattle scheme. It would appear that all of this was going on while members of the Opposition were totally unaware of it, or did not want to recognise it. Deputy Noonan said that he visited my county and a grand proposal was laid before the council. The people involved in that proposal have been noticeable for their absence all during this debate, as have most western Fianna Fáil Deputies.

There is not much sign of Fine Gael Deputies in the west.

Deputy Treacy was not here yesterday. He will not tell them that when he goes back to east Galway.

(Interruptions.)

I am delighted to see the interest that the Fianna Fáil Party have in agriculture. Not so long ago many of those gentlemen over there walked into the lobbies of this House to levy 2 per cent on the farmers when they were losing money in 1979.

What about the super-levy?

It is not so long since they were bringing out the Army and arresting farmers and throwing them into jail. They cannot deny that.

(Interruptions.)

I welcome the payments under the calf premium scheme. All those schemes will provide farmers in the west with the additional finance they need. The feed voucher scheme is one of the most important schemes which the Minister has announced and I am delighted to hear this week that application forms are available to farmers to apply for this scheme.

Application forms are not feeding any of them.

We must ask the Minister to ensure that those application forms are dealt with as speedily as possible.

Deputy, you must conclude.

I will conclude by appealing to the Minister to examine the situation of a very small number of restricted herd owners.

I am looking at the clock. Your time is up.

I appeal to the Minister to examine the difficult situation and the financial ruin faced by some of those farmers. I note that they have not been referred to.

Deputy, you have gone over your time. Resume your seat please.

I ask the Minister to examine the possibility of making assistance available to those farmers.

Deputy Noel Treacy. By agreement he must conclude by 7.53 p.m.

I rise to support the motion proposed by our spokesman on Agriculture and to condemn this Government and the Minister for Agriculture for the feeble, fragmented efforts they made over the past summer to try to alleviate the misery suffered by the farmers as a result of the inclement weather. We must all accept that farming is a risky business and that 1985 was the worst year, weather-wise, for 50 years. One would think when the Taoiseach announced the plethora of schemes with trumpet blasts in Taughmaconnell and other places that he was about to write a cheque for £100 million for the farmers of the west. Instead we now learn that the application forms were only made available for some of those schemes today. The schemes were a response to the calls by the Opposition for help for farmers. We have highlighted the problems being experienced by farmers and farming organisations have brought to the attention of the Government the difficulties being encountered by those involved in agriculture.

The Deputy was conspicuous by his absence. He did not know the problem existed until he visted the areas.

I was the first public representative to visit the Shannon Valley in 1985. On that occasion I saw tractors, machinery and bales of hay covered with water. Not alone was meadow and winter feed lost but the grazing that is important to carry farmers into the winter was also covered with water. The Government's response to that was to give a maximum grant of £500 to farmers in the Shannon Valley. We were delighted to have the Minister for Agriculture visit us in Ballinasloe, although he was late.

Shame on the Deputy.

With Deputy Paul Connaughton, the Minister of State, Deputy Deasy put a hurried statement together to the effect that they were extending the Shannon Valley scheme to cover the northern end of the Suck Valley at the back door of the Minister of State at the Department of Agriculture. I cannot understand how that Minister of State who represents the constituency of Galway East did not make positive representations to the Government to ensure that the entire Shannon Valley from the Suck bridge at Ballinasloe to Shannon bridge at Portumna and across to Looscaun near Woodford was included in that scheme. We have areas like Tiernascragh, Boula, Portumna, Ballycrissane, Clonmoylan, Rossmore, Looscaun on the west bank of the Shannon Valley left out. That represents discrimination by the Minister and the Minister of State.

I support Deputy Naughten and Deputy O'Rourke, in their call for immediate action in that area. I hope the Minister will put immediate pressure on the Office of Public Works and the ESB to reduce the water levels and ensure that farmers get a reasonable opportunity of recovering from this disaster. I call upon the Minister to double the headage payments immediately. He has said that he will be giving £17.5 million in fragmented schemes but if he doubled the headage payments he would be ensuring that the Government get value for money because the EC would back that scheme with a further £17 million.

A few weeks ago I went to Brussels to seek aid for western farmers and I was told that the money was available but an application had not been made for it. Not alone that but the Minister for Agriculture brought a scheme from Europe to save the EC money. The feed voucher scheme will save the Government and the EC a lot of money but denies agriculture, our biggest industry, of vital money that would be available if a proper plan was put to the agricultural Commissioner. I appeal to the Minister to ensure that the £100 million negotiated by Deputy Lenihan when Minister for Agriculture in October 1982 from the European Investment Bank is made available immediately to farmers. If that occurs it will take the pressure off the ACC. That money should be made available at a low interest rate of 5 per cent immediately. The money is available and I appeal to the Minister to apply for it. I appeal to the Minister, in the interests of farmers in the west, to make representations to get a decision from the Minister of State at the Department of Social Welfare, Deputy Donnellan, to ensure that small farmers who lost unemployment assistance have it restored immediately.

The Minister's priority should have been to introduce adequate measures to ensure the retention of our breeding stock, be it milk or beef. What has been done to date is inadequate. At the minimum, help should have been given for feed and credit. The way the Government face up to the problems arising out of the wet summer will dictate the trend of agricultural development in the years ahead. The Minister must now regret the withdrawal of farm modernisation grants because had that decision not been made there would have been much more silage conserved. Those grants were withdrawn at a time when there was a lot of silage development taking place.

In Cavan-Monaghan, a milk producing area, agriculture is facing a crisis in regard to grain, feed, milk production and so on. Measures are not being taken to rectify the problems. In my constituency farmers experienced a huge loss in income. Producers with heavy outlay on additional feed in the summer months will not go within shouts of reaching their milk quotas while in the south there have been reports that a £20 million payment will have to be made to the EC for exceeding the quota. That supports what Deputy Brennan said in regard to his constituency. The Minister must have completely disregarded the submissions made by ACOT officials in our counties or otherwise he would have given farmers the same attention that he gave those whose land was under 18 inches of water. What is the difference between land that is under three inches of water and land that is under 18 inches of water?

In our area there was great co-operation between ACOT, the IFA and the banks. At the end of September the view of ACOT officials was that we would only have 50 per cent of the winter feed and at the end of October, that although we had good weather and a lot of silage was made by way of open pit or bag, it was estimated that we would have only 60 per cent. Milk producers in that area who took a severe hammering this year have discovered that under the 1936 Act they cannot distribute milk in or near Dublin city. However, the Dublin dairies when they have a surplus can flood markets elsewhere in the country. The Minister should examine that. We have made a request to the EC to rectify this but I urge the Minister to take action before he is compelled to do so by the EC. The measures introduced were inadequate and the Minister will have to assess every area as he finds it.

I am glad to have an opportunity to contribute to the debate and highlight the serious difficulties that confront those involved in the country's biggest industry. This year will be remembered as one of the most disastrous years ever for agriculture. Bales of hay were seen floating around in different parts of the country. The television pictures clearly illustrated the problems farmers face. The small farmers who depend solely on hay as winter fodder suffered most. A larger percentage of smallholders do not have silage making facilities mainly because of the economics involved in purchasing the necessary machinery. Certainly in 1985 their whole base of production will have been devastated. The seriousness of the impact of the weather in 1985 on those smallholders will not be known fully until January or February and right into 1986.

The possibility of those smallholders being able to stay in agriculture is very doubtful. Later in the winter, when one has an opportunity of examining the quality of hay and straw saved the bales brought out to feed stock will be found useless. We could well have another flood of cattle coming on to the market, with a consequent effect on the prices available to stock owners on the marts. The short term measures being introduced will be seen to be inadequate and the Minister for Agriculture and the officials in his Department will have to look at this problem in the long term. The facilities and machinery available to many smallholders are inadequate. I am not suggesting that there is any ready-made solution to ensure that these farmers can provide those facilities for themselves. However, there must be a justifiable case to be made for giving assistance by way of a special scheme to enable them to buy the more modern equipment available today but, unfortunately, beyond the purchasing capacity of many of these holders. A number of farmers, perhaps three or four should be allowed jointly to purchase such machinery. With the more modern equipment which came on the market during the last two years, particularly for hay making, if grant aid were made available it would help considerably in the future. This would have a beneficial effect, particularly in the western counties. Many holdings do not lend themselves to the making of silage and will have to continue with hay as fodder for the foreseeable future.

The problematic smallholders are not confined to those 12 western counties. In my own county, on the Cooley peninsula, the mountainous holdings on the north side of the peninsula tend to be overlooked compared with the midlands and south Louth. The mountainside holdings are in a very serious situation indeed as far as the availability of fodder is concerned. I foresee a very depressing picture for many of them after Christmas, particularly if we have a severe winter.

I move on to the problems experienced by the potato growers and the vegetable producers. Because of the type of weather this year, blight has been a particular problem. That in turn will have its effect on the yield and quality of potato available. Potatoes are a very high cost product and the extent of borrowings entered into by many growers leave them in serious financial difficulties. Many will go to the wall this year because of accumulated problems over the last couple of years. The potato growers will be out of business, their suppliers will suffer and there could be many millions of pounds worth of potatoes imported into the country at a time when we are actively working towards import substitution. Unless we are prepared to come to terms with the cost of potato production our ability to stem the tide of imports will be considerably diminished.

The vegetable growers also have been hit badly by the weather and their position is not a very healthy one. Unfortunately, the Minister has not seen his way to taking the type of measures needed to assist many of these who are in a serious position. The level of borrowings for the potato and vegetable growers and farmers in general is unacceptable and the repayment capacity of many of the holdings does not, on examination, make economic sense. That will be a major inhibiting factor as far as agricultural development is concerned. We are now in the era of the super-levy, talk about cereal quotas and of restrictions on the various lines of agricultural production. A small isolated country off the coast of the mainland of Europe cannot survive without a vibrant, strong and productive agricultural base. Economists have identified the food industry as an area with considerable potential for development, but if restrictions are placed on the primary production areas the possibilities of of development and expansion will not be realised even though in many areas we have climatic advantages over many countries. This will affect the economy and the employment creation potential.

With the type of farm structure that we have, with an abundance of small farms, there must be a case to be made for uninhibited expansion of our agricultural base for the development of our food industry. I urge the Minister to take a long, hard and serious look at the possibilities put forward to present our case to Europe and convince the people out there that we will be in a state of stagnation for many years unless the different lines in agriculture are given their heads. It is with great regret that many in agriculture and outside it have read of the refusal of the Department of Finance to allow the establishment aid for young farmers to be included in the revamped farm modernisation scheme.

That is not true.

(Limerick West): Is the Minister going to introduce it?

The implications involved are very serious indeed.

Let the Minister introduce it.

It has always been recognised that the level of education and know-how in agriculture was an inhibitant in many respects to the development of the industry. The establishment aid package could have worked wonders for many of the young farmers who want to become established in agriculture at a time when the possibilities and outlets for employment are non-existent in other areas of the economy. This may be a result of one of the ideological problems that arise from time to time with a Coalition Government when it comes to making decisions on these matters. That we are not going to have the package is very serious indeed.

I just want to point out that the press report is inaccurate.

If the Minister can tell us tonight that we are going to have it as part of the farmers' package that will be great news indeed for many young people who are interested in becoming involved in agriculture as an occupation.

The numbers among the EC member states involved in agriculture have decreased over the years. That is a sad trend which has been ongoing here for a long time. I have always held the view that there is a real possibility of employing more people in agriculture. However, unless we have policies which will encourage young people to become involved, we will have a continuous flight from the land.

I have listened with interest to what has been said and, as a farmer, I would be the last person to deny that this has been a bad year. I would point out that it has been a bad year not only in the west but also the south and east of Ireland. Some of the rainfall figures for my own constituency were as high as in any other part of the country. Every farmer suffered as a result of the bad weather. People who did reasonably well were those involved in dairying, beef and sheep and those who made silage. It is frustrating to hear people still advocating the making of hay 30 years after ACOT said we should be concentrating on silage making.

The Minister should come to the areas around Athlone and see how to make hay.

Deputy O'Rourke did not hear what the Minister said.

Cereal growers everywhere have taken a hammering. Those of us who were lucky enough to save our harvests took bad prices. I personally sold wheat at £70 a tonne and was glad to get that sort of money.

(Interruptions.)

The Minister mentioned the possibility of giving aid in the form of interest to people who are hard hit. That is the sort of aid which the IFA asked for. It is well to remember that point. It will be a very big problem. This also goes for the protein peas which were probably a write off this year. Rye grass was also a write off. These were problems all over the country and no Government could fully compensate for the losses incurred.

I would not accept that the position with regard to potato seed is as bad as was indicated here tonight. Most people seemed to manage to have their crops properly sprayed and are getting very good tonnages, as high as 15 and 16 tonnes of Pentlands. The Potato Co-operative has been launched and Deputies on all sides should encourage people to join the co-operative. It was set up with the co-operation of both sides of the House. People are coming to us now who tell us they are not involved in the co-operative, yet they are worried about imports.

Strength is in co-operation and that was the whole idea behind the spending of State funds to encourage people to cooperate and take on these imports. We must remember that we are in a Community and must obey the rules. Dumping from Holland to here is just like dumping from Cork into Kerry. It is the same thing. Very shortly we will be launching a horticultural-vegetable co-operative on a national scale, beginning in the south east where the concentration of vegetables is heaviest.

There is only so much anybody can do in this House. We can help with limited finance and through ACOT and the other State agencies, including An Foras Talúntais, but if people do not see the wisdom of what is being offered, there is very little we can do. You can bring a horse to water but you cannot make him drink.

I fully support the motion moved by our party spokesman on Agriculture, Deputy Michael Noonan, who is a successful farmer and has served at the highest levels of farming organisation. He is therefore very capable of dealing with any situation in relation to agriculture. The motion states:

That Dáil Éireann, recognising the magnitude of the crisis faced by many Irish farmers as a result of the poor summer weather, calls on the Government to:

(1) make available, as a matter of urgency, financial aid to those most seriously affected as identified by ACOT and those crop farmers who need to buy seed for next year;

(2) immediately re-assess means under the Smallholders Unemployment Assistance Scheme in the light of the effects of the disaster;

(3) increase headage payments to the maximum allowed;

(4) speed up the payment of headage grants;

(5) extend headage grants to newly designated areas this year, not next;

(6) provide low fixed-interest loans through the European Investment Bank; and

(7) encourage the banks and the ACC to help farmers bridge their present difficulties.

I wish to let those opposite know what we are about. Our motion is very reasonable and its proposals should be put into effect immediately. It brought a very negative response from a Government who are totally anti-farmer, as has been evident over the past three years. My colleague, Deputy Noonan, claimed yesterday that £200 million had been withdrawn from the industry which employs directly and indirectly in excess of 500,000 people and whose export content is valued at over 50 per cent of total exports.

What is the source of those figures?

(Interruptions.)

I believe Deputy Noonan's claim is conservative and that the figure should be £250 million. I will give the figures to the Minister at another time if he wants them.

Why not now?

One must consider the effect of the loss of the farm modernisation scheme, together with the associated jobs and production losses. The abolition of the Land Commission has caused many farmers dependent on the Land Commission for viability to leave the land. They could not compete in the open market against professionals, solicitors or doctors, who buy the land for use as a hobby or the bigger farmer like Deputy Farrelly who would have easier access to loans from financial institutions.

It is nice to be categorised.

The refusal of the Government to take advantage of the young farmer establishment aid has cost this country dearly since such aid is financed substantially by the EC.

That is not true.

Considering that only 10 per cent of Irish farmers are under 35 years of age, it was a scandalous decision not to avail of such assistance. There are many other instances of this Government's complete lack of interest or belief in agriculture. Their answers to date have been an absolute farce. The bad weather of the summer and early autumn this year has had disastrous affects on every farmer, not just some, as indicated yesterday by the Minister. I am delighted that his junior Minister recognises that. It is there in black and white but perhaps the Minister did not understand what he was reading. To indicate that £500, £400, £300 or even less than £100 would be satisfactory is a clear indication of the Government's ignorance, or callousness, or both. I can give an instance of a farmer in Offaly today. He is married with four children. He was told he would possibly succeed in his claim for a grant and that he would get £300. His fodder shortage this year will cost him £2,500, and he can be certain that the fodder he buys will not be of good quality.

The Government amendment is a laugh. No matter where one comes from, the farmers there have suffered severe losses. I am glad Deputy Hegarty agrees with me. The effects of those losses will be felt for years. The Government's reaction was one of ignorance and drama. The Taoiseach flew over certain areas in his helicopter to see for himself, at first hand, he said, how bad the position was. That gimmick misled people into believing that he was concerned about the plight of farmers. He confined his flight to a certain area to give the impression that the damage was confined to a small part of the country.

That trip, of course, was a con job and we have all seen through it. All it did was to widen the gap between town and country because of its innuendo that farmers were looking for handouts again. We in Fianna Fáil condemn this divide and conquer policy, a tactic constantly employed by our first cousins across the water. Agriculture needs urgent support if we are to stabilise on and off-farm jobs and hold on to and increase our level of exports. If the measures we have proposed are not acted on we will see many more young farmers emigrating or joining the dole queue. The Minister last night and today made it quite clear that he is not aware of the problem countrywide. He proceeded last night to make a joke out of a very serious problem.

That is not true. Shame on the Deputy.

It is true. He indicated that farmers in the dairying industry saw more grass on their farms this year than in previous years. That part of it may be true but is he aware that that land, with lush grass, could not take the weight of heavy machinery? The land was so wet that enormous damage was done to it by cattle and cows. It was a common sight during summer to see tractors and other machinery bogged down for weeks. Of course that would not be noticed from a helicopter.

The suggestion that there have been only tremors in the beef market could only have come from one who does not attend cattle marts. The Mickey Mouse scheme of August was a total failure and all the speeches in the world will not change it. Any silage made in September and last month, though welcome, will be of very poor quality. The main winter fodders used in Ireland are hay, silage and, to a lesser degree, straw and compounded grain meal. If farmers are to retain healthy herds they must provide them with good quality feeds. The summer weather prevented farmers from getting good results. In the interests of the country, the farmers, and particularly the taxpayers, that must be redressed and this can only be done by acting on our motion immediately. The nation will thank the Minister for it.

On this motion, the Minister departed from his script to say that farmers had learned little from similar experiences in other years. He said they had not provided silage slabs, and so on. That came from a Minister who scrapped the farm modernisation scheme and effectively finished off any farm building work. It shows how hypocritical this administration is. The hail storm that devastated a five kilometre corridor from south Kilkenny to Ardee in Louth cut the leaves off sugar beet, destroyed fruit crops, reduced barley and wheat yields by at least 50 per cent, and we are offered, as the Minister said, token support. Such a defeatist attitude by the Minister is unacceptable.

I represent many tillage farmers and they have told me of their substantial losses. Spring wheat was a disaster. Barley yields are back, the quality is very poor and the financial yields are rock bottom. The junior Minister told us many of them received only £75 per tonne. We all know it costs £95 to produce a tonne of barley. As a result, the co-ops, the banks and the ACC cannot be repaid. That means there will be no credit for farmers next year or possibly for years to come. The investment in an acre of barley is about £300. How, in such circumstances, can a tuppence-halfpenny scheme help? Pictures of hay in flooded fields which we saw on television may have been dramatic but they gave a clear illustration of the position. Eighty per cent of the country's hay is of poor quality. Much of it has been thrown into ditches. Today in County Offaly farmers are cutting with scythes to try to get something out of it. Therefore, I resent any suggestion that farmers are taking advantage of the fodder shortage to feather their own nests. It has been said they have been selling vast quantities of straw across the Border. Those who made that suggestion are grossly irresponsible mischief makers. Co-operatives and others bought straw which normally would have been burned. It has been said that farmers bought that straw and sold it. I wish to point out categorically that there has been no bonanza for farmers in that type of transaction.

We urge the Minister to exhort the banks, the ACC and the co-operatives to take account of the plight of farmers this year. We do not want fancy statements in the newspapers from anybody. The slogan "pay up or sell out" is blackmail at its lowest form. I call on the Minister to assess immediately farmers' means under the smallholders unemployment assistance scheme. It is sad to say that people regarded as sound farmers are now approaching the South-Eastern Health Board for assistance.

The Ministers has said that because of budgetary constraints he cannot do any more. That is a clear vote of no confidence in agriculture. The Minister was implying that investment in agriculture is not worth while. The Minister for Finance, Deputy Dukes, told us that investment in agriculture yields 14 per cent. We are calling for such investment. Surely it makes sense to look after the biggest employers, the biggest contributors to the economy. Excuses by the Minister for his own inadequacy or the lack of commitment by the Government are not adequate.

Amendment put.
The Dáil divided: Tá, 73; Níl, 65.

  • Allen, Bernard.
  • Barnes, Monica.
  • Barrett, Seán.
  • Barry, Myra.
  • Begley, Michael.
  • Bell, Michael.
  • Bermingham, Joe.
  • Birmingham, George Martin.
  • Boland, John.
  • Bruton, Richard.
  • Burke, Liam.
  • Carey, Donal.
  • Cluskey, Frank.
  • Collins, Edward.
  • Conlon, John F.
  • Connaughton, Paul.
  • Coogan, Fintan.
  • Cooney, Patrick Mark.
  • Cosgrave, Michael Joe.
  • Coveney, Hugh.
  • Creed, Donal.
  • Crotty, Kieran.
  • Crowley, Frank.
  • D'Arcy, Michael.
  • Deasy, Martin Austin.
  • Desmond, Barry.
  • Desmond, Eileen.
  • Donnellan, John.
  • Dowling, Dick.
  • Doyle, Avril.
  • Doyle, Joe.
  • Dukes, Alan.
  • Durkan, Bernard J.
  • Enright, Thomas W.
  • Farrelly, John V.
  • Fennell, Nuala.
  • Flaherty, Mary.
  • Glenn, Alice.
  • Griffin, Brendan.
  • Harte, Patrick D.
  • Hegarty, Paddy.
  • Hussey, Gemma.
  • Kavanagh, Liam.
  • Kelly, John.
  • Kenny, Enda.
  • L'Estrange, Gerry.
  • McGahon, Brendan.
  • McGinley, Dinny.
  • McLoughlin, Frank.
  • Manning, Maurice.
  • Mitchell, Gay.
  • Mitchell, Jim.
  • Molony, David.
  • Moynihan, Michael.
  • Nealon, Ted.
  • Noonan, Michael. (Limerick East)
  • O'Brien, Fergus.
  • O'Brien, Willie.
  • O'Keeffe, Jim.
  • O'Leary, Michael.
  • O'Sullivan, Toddy.
  • O'Toole, Paddy.
  • Owen, Nora.
  • Pattison, Séamus.
  • Prendergast, Frank.
  • Quinn, Ruairí.
  • Ryan, John.
  • Shatter, Alan.
  • Sheehan, Patrick Joseph.
  • Skelly, Liam.
  • Taylor-Quinn, Madeline.
  • Timmins, Godfrey.
  • Yates, Ivan.

Níl

  • Ahern, Bertie.
  • Ahern, Michael.
  • Andrews, David.
  • Aylward, Liam.
  • Barrett, Michael.
  • Blaney, Neil Terence.
  • Brady, Gerard.
  • Brady, Vincent.
  • Brennan, Mattie.
  • Brennan, Paudge.
  • Brennan, Séamus.
  • Briscoe, Ben.
  • Browne, John.
  • Burke, Raphael P.
  • Byrne, Hugh.
  • Byrne, Seán.
  • Calleary, Seán.
  • Collins, Gerard.
  • Conaghan, Hugh.
  • Kitt, Michael.
  • Lenihan, Brian.
  • Leonard, Jimmy.
  • Leonard, Tom.
  • Lyons, Denis.
  • McCarthy, Seán.
  • McCreevy, Charlie.
  • McEllistrim, Tom.
  • Molloy, Robert.
  • Morley, P. J.
  • Moynihan, Donal.
  • Nolan, M. J.
  • Noonan, Michael J. (Limerick West)
  • Connolly, Ger.
  • Coughlan, Cathal Seán.
  • Cowen, Brian.
  • Daly, Brendan.
  • Doherty, Seán.
  • Fahey, Francis.
  • Fahey, Jackie.
  • Faulkner, Pádraig.
  • Fitzgerald, Liam Joseph.
  • Flynn, Pádraig.
  • Foley, Denis.
  • Gallagher, Denis.
  • Gallagher, Pat Cope.
  • Geoghegan-Quinn, Máire.
  • Harney, Mary.
  • Haughey, Charles J.
  • Hilliard, Colm.
  • Hyland, Liam.
  • Kirk, Séamus.
  • O'Connell, John.
  • O'Hanlon, Rory.
  • O'Keeffe, Edmond.
  • O'Leary, John.
  • Ormonde, Donal.
  • O'Rourke, Mary.
  • Power, Paddy.
  • Reynolds, Albert.
  • Treacy, Noel.
  • Tunney, Jim.
  • Wallace, Dan.
  • Walsh, Joe.
  • Wilson, John P.
  • Wyse, Pearse.
Tellers: Tá, Deputies Barrett(Dún Laoghaire) and McLoughlin; Níl, Deputies V. Brady and Barrett (Dublin North-West).
Amendment declared carried.
Motion, as amended, put and agreed to.
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