asked the Minister for Industry, Trade, Commerce and Tourism if he will outline the Government's proposals, if any, relating to below cost selling by retail outlets; and whether any consideration is being given to promised legislation in this respect.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Below Cost Selling.
2.
The question of below cost selling of grocery goods has already been examined, by means of a public inquiry, by the Restrictive Practices Commission who found that, on balance, a ban on such sales would not be in the overall public good. I am aware that certain organisations in the retail food trade have continued to press for such a ban but I have indicated, in my meetings with them, that I accept the commission's findings in this area.
Assuming that it is policy that below cost selling is not the right way to deal with the problems in this area, will the Minister accept that those who have advocated this view have probably been prompted by undertakings given by politicians on all sides of the House? Secondly, what other system might be introduced to deal with the legitimate concern of smaller traders who feel that they may be overrun by the enormous purchasing power of conglomerates if below cost selling is deemed no longer to be useful in that respect?
In taking the present stance I am very much aware that if there was a ban on below cost selling they would substitute some other element such as non-price giveaways, or whatever, that would simply achieve the same objective. I point out to the Deputy that a directive entitled Local Government Planning and Development General Policy Directive 1982 was introduced by the Minister for the Environment following continued representations from IADT and RGDATA which specified a wide range of criteria which must be used by all planning authorities in considering planning applications in this area. I suggest that that mechanism would be of help in this regard.
Is the Minister of State aware of the second report of the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Small Businesses and their very strong recommendation after considering quite detailed evidence from all sectors of the industry, that there should be a ban on below cost selling? Further, is he aware that since the RPC report in 1980-81 there have been substantial changes in the retail environment in Ireland? Is he aware that it is quite common practice with Irish multinationals to de-list Irish manufactured goods because they cannot meet the credit terms and price demands of the purchasing power of these multiples and that these goods are being replaced by imported goods?
That is a very long question; in fact, it is a statement.
Yes, I am aware of the second report of the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Small Businesses. Indeed, I opened the debate in the Seanad on that report and there I stated my present position. In view of the report of the RPC, dated November 1980, there was a clear indication that, looking at the problem from the point of view of manufacturers, distributors and consumers, a prohibition such as suggested by the Deputy would not be to the advantage of any of these interests to such extent as would justify serious interference with freedom of trade.
(Interruptions.)
We are entering into argument. Deputy Yates, and then I will call Deputy Lyons.
Would the Minister of State consider making available to the committee, as they have no resources, some members of his Department's staff for consideration of publishing a private Members' Bill in this area?
I am aware that there has been some decision by the Committee on Procedure and Privileges in regard to the publication of private Members' Bills which may come into operation in the near future. Perhaps the proposed new regime will provide a mechanism open to the Deputy that would allow such a Bill to be published.
I would like to ask the Minister of State on this matter of below cost selling and retail outlets if he is aware that in rural villages alone the difference in the price of a loaf of bread as between the group supermarket and the traditional shopkkeeper is as much as 30 per cent for the same loaf of bread from the same bakery? How does the Minister of State propose to regulate such an occurrence? It is happening all over the country.
Let me suggest that a question be put down on the Order Paper about the price of bread and I will be happy to deal with it when we come to it.
Does the Minister of State believe that the independent grocers are seriously disadvantaged by the price war going on with the multinationals at this time?
I take the point the Deputy is making. I do not see any great advantage in price wars. What I am addressing here is the question of below cost selling. On the basis of the report made by the RPC, a legislative ban on below cost selling would not be in the best interests of the consumer for instance, nor perhaps of the distributor. I suggest also that if such a ban was introduced other mechanisms would be used by distributors which would achieve the same end but under a different guise, for instance in the selling of petrol at the moment when instead of reducing the price they give away bonanzas. I do not know if that achieves what it should achieve.
Would the Minister of State agree that they are disadvantaged?
Ceist 3. There are 38 questions and at this rate we will dispose of eight.
I should have replied to Deputy Yates when he asked about officials in my Department. If Deputy Yates or any other Deputy has any difficulty with regard to any problem I will be happy, if approached, to make whatever arrangements are necessary for officials to meet any Deputy in the House regarding such problems.