asked the Minister for Education the spending on education here per capita of the school-going population and the comparable sum in each of the other countries in the EC.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Cost of Education.
26.
The information requested by the Deputy is as follows:
|
Expenditure on education per capita of the school going population, 1982. |
|
|
Germany |
2,289* |
|
France |
2,222 |
|
Italy |
1,585 |
|
Netherlands |
2,627 |
|
Belgium |
2,257 |
|
United Kingdom |
2,250 |
|
Ireland |
1,261 |
|
Denmark |
3,380* |
|
Luxembourg |
4,588 |
* 1981 data.
Figures for Greece are not available.
Expenditure is expressed in European Currency Units (ECU) which is a means by which national currencies may be converted to common unit. I would point out, however, that these figures give the impression that we give education a lower priority than in any other country of the EC.
I do not believe that anybody feels that that has been the case under successive Governments. This is not in fact the case. Such an impression is always given when comparative figures are expressed in actual money terms, because incomes are generally lower here than in the industrialised countries of Western Europe. A further distortion arises when comparisons of expenditure on a per capita basis are made. It occurs because there is a different percentage distribution of pupils between the levels of the educational system, compared with that in most of the other countries of the EC.
Our school-going population is expending, whereas it has contracted in most of these countries. Accordingly, there is a much higher percentage of the school population at first level and a lower percentage at third level in Ireland than is the case in the other EC countries. For example in 1981-82, 61.8 per cent of our school population was at first level compared with 34.4 per cent for the Federal Republic of Germany and 44.6 per cent for the United Kingdom. On the other hand, we had 4.8 per cent of our school going population at third level, compared with 10.7 per cent for Western Germany and 4.9 per cent for the United Kingdom.
Because per capita costs are lower in all countries for first-level education compared with per capita costs at third level, it follows that making comparisons of expenditure per pupil overall creates a major source of distortion.
A more objective criterion is the expenditure on education and training as a percentage of Gross Domestic Products. On the basis of this criterion, Ireland, after Denmark devotes a higher proportion of Gross Domestic Product to education and training than any other country in the EC.
The reason I tabled this question was that I noticed that two weeks ago the Minister gave the figures for the proportion of GDP spent on education in the course of a reply to Deputy Avril Doyle. That is irrelevant to our position because of the different age structure of our population compared with other European countries. The figures given by the Minister refer to 1982 and I presume that they have fallen adversely since then. Is the Minister satisfied that Ireland occupies the lowest rung on the ladder in regard to per capita spending on education in Europe?
I should like to draw the Deputy's attention to the fact that the figures related to 1982 when Fianna Fáil were in office, as they had been for most of the previous five years. That point must be borne in mind.
I suggested that the figures had fallen since.
I do not accept that there might have been a fall. I have given a full answer to the question put to me based on the latest figures available to us from the EC. The Deputy should consider the part of my reply which gives acceptable statistical data. It is interesting to note that a very high proportion of Irish children go to school at a lower age than those in other countries. In West Germany there is a higher proportion of a higher age group in the education system and they cost much more money. It is difficult to make comparisons. It is worth bearing in mind the sobering thought that in Ireland we have 25 per cent more young people in the education system than other countries and that we devote two-thirds of the GDP to educate them. It can be said that we are achieving a remarkable amount in this regard and I apply that tribute to all Governments. The resources available to us are a lot less than are available to other countries.
I must remark that the Chair earlier advised us that we were not to make speeches at Question Time.
I have explained on numerous occasions that the Chair has no control over how questions are answered and I ask Members to accept that.
Does the Minister accept that on the figures she has given us Ireland comes out very badly in regard to expenditure on education compared with other European countries?
I do not accept that.