asked the Minister for Social Welfare if he will give details of how means are determined for those claiming means-tested social welfare payments; and, in particular, if he will state how these means are assessed in relation to ownership of: property, lands and provision of board and lodgings; and if it is his intention to revise and update these methods of assessment of means in view of the appalling poverty conditions under which many of these applicants are living.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Social Welfare Means Testing.
10.
A social welfare officer interviews each claimant where a means test is required for the purpose of determining entitlement to, and the appropriate weekly rate of, a social assistance payment. The officer obtains information on all items which, under the statutory provisions relating to a particular scheme, must be taken into account. The principal items which constitute means are cash income, property other than the applicant's own home, investments and capital and, in the case of certain schemes, the value of any benefit or privilege enjoyed, such as board and lodgings. Due allowance is made for items which are disregarded under the provisions of the particular scheme.
The value of a claimant's home is not assessed. In the case of other property personally used, the value of any advantage accruing to the person is assessed, for example, where the property is a farm the net profit from running the farm is assessed. In the case of property not personally used, for example a second house, the current market value is obtained and this is assessed, as also are capital and investments, by applying the rules as to calculation of means as appropriate to the particular scheme. These rules are set out in the Third Schedule to the Social Welfare (Consolidation) Act, 1981, and they are summarised in the Department's booklet Summary of Social Insurance and Social Assistance Services.
Where the claimant is a farmer, the net profit from working the farm is assessed as means. If the land is leased or let, the net profit from this is assessed as means.
The value of board and lodgings, where assessable, is determined having regard to the standard of living of the household and the circumstances of the claimant. Assessments of means under this heading apply mainly to single persons living with their parents. The amount of the assessment is subject to a maximum limit of 12½ per cent of the net income of the parents in the case of wage earning families. Where the claimant's parent is a farmer, the procedure is to estimate the yearly net income from the farm and to divide the amount between all members of the household, including the claimant, on a weighted basis.
The objective of means testing claimants under the various social assistance schemes is to ensure that payments are assessed equitably according to need and that the best use is made of limited Exchequer resources in meeting the needs of those depending on these schemes. The various means testing provisions have evolved over many years as, indeed, has the entire social welfare code. The need to review them was among the reasons for setting up the Commission on Social Welfare to review the entire social welfare system. The commission will be reporting soon and all aspects of the social welfare code will be reviewed in the light of their report. Any proposals arising out of this examination will be put to the Government for consideration in due course.
Any time there is a difficulty with regard to any anomalous state that gives rise to concern the Commission on Social Welfare is mentioned——
That is not a question
I hope we will get a comprehensive report shortly because the commission is a refuge behind which the Minister and his Department hide. Will he accept that there seems to be an over-stringent calculation of means particularly in relation to small land-owners whose land is non-viable? As he knows, small farmers have had to endure much financial hardship particularly after the bad summer last year and it appears that officers of his Department assess their means far in excess of the actual amount. With regard to the provision of board and lodgings, will the Minister agree that this is discriminatory against single young people who reside at home, who cannot get a job and who are forced to sign on at the employment exchange? The fact that the parents of such people may have reasonable jobs does not mean necessarily that they receive any money from their parents.
Everyone here, including myself, realises that that is not a question.
I am asking the Minister if he agrees——
One could read a newspaper from beginning to end and ask the Minister whether he agreed with everything in it.
This is a matter of real concern. It relates to the Minister's Department. I am talking of young people who reside with parents whose means may be modest.
The case the Deputy is making would be more appropriate for an Estimate debate or for a Social Welfare Bill at which time he would have one hour perhaps in which to make his case.
I have tried that avenue too. The Minister may even tell me that the Commission on Social Welfare will sort out the problem. On this matter of board and lodging, can the Minister say whether a precise figure is applied by the Department in general? In other words, is it the position that when an applicant for unemployment assistance resides with his parents he is means tested on the basis that his means are X amount as a result of being kept and fed by his parents?
I have made my views known on this aspect of means testing. The rules are set in the Third Schedule to the Social Welfare (Consolidation) Act, 1981. These rules were followed by the Deputy's party when in Government and they have been in existence since the inception of the scheme. Where assessible, the value of board and lodging is determined in the context of the standard of living in the household concerned and if the circumstances of the claimant. Assessments under this heading apply mainly to single persons living with their parents.
That has been put on the record in the last couple of minutes.
The Deputy refers to those people who he says are living in appalling conditions of poverty. The whole thrust of the means test is to ensure that the maximum resources are diverted to people who are in appalling poverty conditions, to use the Deputy's terminology. People in that category qualify for the maximum rates of assistance. To abolish the means test at a time when resources do not allow for that would mean that those in the circumstances described by the Deputy would be treated in the same way as people who were, relatively speaking, in conditions that were not as bad.
I appreciate what the Minister says but he has said that the means test in respect of social welfare payments was devised to cater for those found to be in appalling poverty conditions. From the answer to the first question we know that there are anomalies in terms of the means testing applied by the Department of Social Welfare and the means testing as devised and implemented by community welfare officers and health boards. The Minister has told us his Department in respect of means testing decided in one case that the individual concerned was not entitled to anything but that a community welfare officer investigating the matter found the person to be in appalling poverty and decided that he should be paid £70 per week.
The Deputy must not cover ground that has been covered already.
Is the means test not crazy when young people are being granted payents as low as £2 and £3 per week? This is an insult to them.