It is proposed to take Nos. 4 and 13. Private Members' Business shall be No. 32.
Order of Business.
Along with a number of other Deputies — Deputies, I understand, from all sides of the House — and in response to a unanimous decision of Dublin City Council last night, I call for the release of Deputy Tony Gregory-Independent from Mountjoy. You have ruled the question out of order, Sir?
I have.
Can you clarify? You said that it lacks a degree of urgency.
I ruled the question out of order and I conveyed my reasons to the Deputy. I cannot discuss them here.
Will you not accept——
I cannot have an argument about this.
To give me the reply that it lacked a degree of urgency under Standing Orders, when a Deputy of this House on the eve of budget day is behind bars, is a bit much.
I cannot discuss my rulings here. When I refer to urgency, of course I refer to urgency within the meaning of Standing Orders and the meaning of precedents.
May I ask the Minister for Justice outside the House if he will do something?
You can indeed, outside the House.
Let me take this opportunity to ask the Minister if he will do something to try to assist Deputy Gregory-Independent who wishes to be in this House tomorrow.
I am sorry, I cannot allow a discussion on this.
According to the rulings of the Chair, questions ruled out of order may not be cited or raised for argument or debate. Because the Ceann Comhairle has ruled that it is not matter of urgent public importance that a Member of this House——
Has the Deputy any request to make?
He is a Member of this House——
That is an argument. The Deputy is out of order.
You did not let me finish.
I will not allow the Deputy to abuse procedures of the House.
I would like to raise it on the Adjournment.
I will communicate with the Deputy.
On a Private Notice Question which I submitted regarding exchange rate policy, having regard to the impact on our economy of the depreciation——
Deputy——
I want clarification and I will explain why. I was concerned about the impact on our economy of depreciation of sterling and the dollar and the effect it has. In connection with the reply which I got, courtesy of your office——
The Deputy knows that it is not in order to discuss, or seek to discuss, the rulings of the Chair.
Could I just have clarification?
If the Deputy comes to my office we shall have a friendly chat about it and we will iron out the difficulties, I am sure.
This is a matter of great importance. I see that questions raised in the normal course for the attention of the Minister for Finance will not be before the House in Question Time for a month. In the meantime, the economy will be very seriously damaged. That is my point.
The Deputy is out of order. He will have ample opportunity in a debate that begins tomorrow. There will be considerable time for dealing with it.
On a separate matter, I would ask if there is to be a statement——
I am not going to allow the Deputy to proceed. He must resume his seat.
It is just that if I wait in the normal course of events——
The Deputy is now arguing with the Chair.
This is an explanation for my question.
I am not going to argue with the Deputy now.
Is it not reasonable in a matter of such great importance as that raised with regard to the exchange rate——
The Deputy will have to find another way of complaining about that.
The explanation given does not measure up to the urgency of the matter.
I am sorry, Deputy. You will have to resume your seat. I call Deputy De Rossa.
Could the Taoiseach indicate when the legislation to control the testing of drugs on humans will be brought before the House?
We hope to bring it in in this session, a Cheann Comhairle.
I ask permission to raise on the Adjournment the matter of the failure of the Minister for Health to provide a building to house the radiotherapy unit at Cork Regional Hospital, something which is very important and vital to the health of the people in the Munster area?
I shall communicate with the Deputy.
I put down a Private Notice Question asking the Minister for Agriculture if he would direct the Land Commission to acquire a farm of nearly 700 acres in County Galway and have it divided among the local farmers. The Chair has ruled—
If you are going to seek to argue with the Chair, that cannot be allowed. You can put this question down for ordinary notice.
May I raise the question on the Adjournment?
You may seek to do so and I will communicate with you. I call Deputy Reynolds and then Deputy Bertie Ahern.
Could the Taoiseach tell us if and when he will be introducing legislation in the House to provide for the appointment of sheriffs and if the report of the interdepartmental committee on this matter will be published?
I am not in a position to answer that question without notice, a Cheann Comhairle. I shall communicate with the Deputy.
Will you give them power to execute against the country at large?
Is the Taoiseach going to publish the interdepartmental report on this matter?
I have not considered that matter.
The Taoiseach has not considered it? Will he consider it?
I cannot allow a long series of cross-examinations.
In courtesy to the Deputy, of course I shall consider it, now that he has raised the matter. I cannot prejudge my answer.
I heard that the report had been locked away, never to be seen again.
I call Deputy B. Ahern and then Deputy De Rossa.
It has been stated outside the House within the last few hours that the Taoiseach and the Minister for Energy have made an arrangement with the Congress of Trade Unions and the Transport Union to meet a deputation from them when they arrive at the House today. Would the Taoiseach confirm or deny that?
I am not aware of anything of the kind.
The Taoiseach does not listen to the news.
In relation to the question on drug testing legislation, could the Taoiseach indicate if this legislation could be brought before the House early in this session. I understood that we were to have it during the last session and that the drafting of the Bill was almost complete well before Christmas. Will it be early in this session?
Yes, I hope to have the legislation published and before the House in about one month.
I would ask the Taoiseach if it is his intention, or if he will arrange for the Minister for Foreign Affairs, to make a statement to the House on the very serious situation which has developed in the North of Ireland in regard to recent actions by the UDR. I am aware of the fact——
That does not arise on the Order of Business.
The Taoiseach has indicated to us that he proposes to put machinery in place after consultation, whereby matters arising in regard to affairs in the North of Ireland are dealt with through this House. As this machinery is not yet in place and as this is a very serious matter, which is being very fully discussed and debated in the media and raised by the Department of Foreign Affairs, is there any way in which the Taoiseach would be prepared to indicate to us the position of the Irish Government with regard to this matter?
That definitely does not arise on the Order of Business. There may be other ways of raising the matter.
It strikes me that we have here a situation of very serious and far-reaching implications in so far as the Anglo-Irish Agreement is concerned. You say it cannot be raised on the Order of Business. We have a Member of this House in jail coming up to budget time and you say that that is not a matter of urgency.
I suggest, Deputy Haughey, that, instead of addressing the Chair in a manner which might suggest that you have some grievance against the way the Chair is handling the Business of the House, if the procedure is lacking, you take steps to have the matter debated in the House or brought before the House. The Chair cannot allow it to go on in this way.
But we are on the Order of Business.
Yes, that is exactly it.
We are discussing the ordering of the Business of the House. I am asking you very deferentially, and in no way critical of your ruling, if you are satisfied that this House can go through today without Deputies having an opportunity of adverting to or raising either of these matters?
That is not a matter for the Chair. The Chair only has rules about it; he has not remedies. I suggest that if the Deputy——
Surely the question of urgency and the interpretation of urgency is a matter for your good self?
No, it is not. It is, within Standing Orders which apply; but there is no way in which I can allow matters to be raised in an ad hoc manner, no matter how painful a tone of voice the Deputy adopts.
The question of the incarceration of a Member of this House was not raised in an ad hoc manner. A Private Notice Question was addressed to you and may I submit in this particular matter, again with all due deference, that you are the special protector of the rights of the Deputies of this House, by virtue of your office? Surely, Sir, if the Executive of this State——
An intimation has been given——
Would you say——
I just want to put the Deputy right on the matter which we are discussing now. Intimation has been given to me by a Deputy of the House that he proposes to raise that matter in a half-hour debate tonight. I have told that Deputy that I will consider it and communicate with him. That is in order.
I am glad to hear that. However, it is not really an answer to the point which I very properly am submitting on the Order of Business. In your position as special protector and guardian of the rights of Deputies of this House, do you agree that it is not in keeping with the traditions of the office to refuse the House an opportunity to discuss or ask questions about the incarceration of a Member of this House? I merely make that point.
The politicians of the Dáil are in enough disrepute without suggesting they are above the law.
Order, please, Deputy Kelly. I do not want any help.
We are low enough in public esteem and Deputy Haughey knows who is to blame for that. We know who has brought that about.
(Interruptions.)
In reply to the matter raised by Deputy Haughey about the Deputy who is——
Deferentially raised.
A Deputy
Arrogantly raised.
I have told him that it was put to me in an orderly way that a Deputy wanted to raise it on the Adjournment in a half-hour debate. I am considering that and I shall deal with it.
That does not affect your ruling on the question on the grounds of urgency. I make one final plea through you to the Taoiseach that he be prepared to give some statement to the House at some stage on this very serious development in the North of Ireland.
That is a matter about which the Deputy should approach the Government Whip.
(Limerick West): When can we expect legislation on the setting up of a land authority?
During the course of the year. I cannot give a precise date.
(Limerick West): Would you ask the Taoiseach to repeat his reply?
I wish to raise on the Adjournment the proposal to cut back expenditure on bovine TB eradication in view of its serious implications for the cattle herd.
Why is the Government report on the building societies not being brought before the House?
This does not arise on the Order of Business.