Vol. 363 No. 6
asked the Minister for Education if, in view of the deteriorating standards of the existing school bus fleet, and of the importance of the school bus service, especially in rural areas, she will indicate the measures the Government intend to take to ensure the continuation of a public school bus service; and if she will make a statement on the matter.
23.
asked the Minister for Education her immediate and long term plans for the future operation of the school transport system.
I propose to take Questions Nos. 12 and 23 together.
I am sorry to interrupt the Minister of State but I must seek guidance from the Ceann Comhairle. I have Priority Question No. 23 on this matter. I know the Minister has indicated that he is willing to take the two together, but I wish to ask whether priority means priority in the fullest sense with regard to that question. What is the procedure for dealing with my priority question and the Deputy's question?
My priority question.
It is a very fine question but it is not priority.
Question No. 12, as far as I am concerned, is priority. Deputy O'Rourke's question is No. 23.
I do not wish to fight with Deputy De Rossa.
The order of the House deals with that. It states that the two questions may be taken together and answered together.
Do you receive supplementaries from both Deputies?
Yes.
And they will be answered.
I propose to take Questions Nos. 12 and 23 together. It is my intention that the school transport system will continue to operate having regard to the level of Government funds available. The question of how this can best be done is under consideration.
A Cheann Comhairle, you now have to decide.
I am calling Questions in numerical order.
We had this debate a long time ago. Could the Minister indicate whether the consideration the Department are giving the school transport system will ensure the maintenance of the existing fleet in good order and that there will be no reductions in the services provided or in staffing levels?
As I explained in my reply, an investigation is being carried out in relation to the school transport system. I take it the Deputy has in mind the safety of the children. At present the fleet is subjected to a roadworthiness test once a year.
There are a few flat tyres.
Until such time as the relevant report is available I am not in a position to predict the future.
What moneys have been provided in this year's Estimate for the replacement and/or renewal of the school transport system? Is the Minister of State aware that some of these buses are 16 years old? Can he say when this committee, which appears to be meeting under the chairmanship of my constituency colleague but which is shrouded in great secrecy, will report? Will the report's recommendations be implemented, what will it mean for the school transport system? Furthermore, what will it mean for the firm at Shannon which had been anticipating an order from the Department and which had been so informed? What has happened to the moneys which the national plan envisaged would be spent on the school transport system?
No decision on the replacement of the school transport fleet will be taken until this report is available. It is no great secret that this investigation is being carried out by senior officials of my Department and by local interested groups in education. As Deputies will appreciate, it is a very difficult service to provide bearing in mind that the number of children transported is approximately 150,000 each morning and evening. Certainly at this point it is necessary to take an overall look at the system as it operates, at questions such as whether there should be greater dependence on local contractors, whether we should replace the fleet or continue to ensure that most of the existing fleet will be utilised.
The Minister did not answer my first supplementary. I want to know what moneys have been provided in this year's Estimate for replacement or renewal of the buses utilised in the school transport system.
That is a separate question. I am not in a position to answer at this stage. However, I can tell the Deputy that for 1986 it is envisaged that the school transport system will cost approximately £35 million.
That is the cost. I want to know what moneys are provided for the renewal of buses or for new buses.
If the Deputy will put down a question to that effect, I will certainly provide her with the answer. But I think it is a separate question.
They have no money.
That is untrue.
What consultations are proposed with the interested parties involved in the school transport system in order to ensure that the best possible decisions are taken in regard to how it is to be properly funded and staffed?
I can assure the Deputy that there will be adequate consultation with all the interested groups. Until such time as the report is made available to me — which should be in the not too distant future — I cannot foresee what further consultations will be necessary for the provision of a proper service for transporting school children.
I put it to the Minister of State that he has no option but to sustain the present school transport system until the end of the current school term. Can the Minister give us any indication of whether the proposed VAT refund on special buses announced in yesterday's budget and the further impositions and cutback in education of £15 million constitute an element of the school transport system for this year?
Would the Deputy please repeat his question?
Can the Minister indicate whether the proposed VAT refund on special buses and the £15 million cutback in education contain an element of the school transport for the latter half of this year?
That is a separate question.
Surely the Minister in charge of school transport knows what provisions and plans he has for the remainder of the year?
He says he does not.
Is the Minister aware that the examination under way is likely to take much longer than anticipated? Furthermore, is he aware that very likely it will have major implications not alone for his Department but for CIE and may well lead to different standards and schemes, if the lines along which the Department are now proceeding are continued. The Minister will be further aware——
That is not a question; it is a speech——
——that the people who make these buses——
The Deputy is making a rather long speech which is not in order at Question Time.
Is the Minister aware that the company which has been providing these buses has recently closed down because they cannot get an indication from his Department whether an order, at decision-making level, will be given to the company? For this reason there is an urgency to deal with this situation apart altogether from the examination and pilot schemes the Minister is carrying out. The people who make these buses are now out of work——
The Deputy is now making a speech.
——and the Department are likely to be importing these buses in a few years time unless the Department can confirm that order.
The Deputy should not ignore the Chair. He is ignoring the Chair and making a speech.
It is a very important matter — 400 people have been put out of work because of the failure of this Minister for Education to place an order with this company.
It is probably too big a matter to be dealt with at Question Time. The Deputy could have sought to raise it in other ways.
The Minister is fully aware that the school bus fleet at present in operation is 16 years old, some of which are dangerous——
The Deputy should co-operate with the Chair.
——and yet she knows there are no reserve buses available. For instance if any one of them breaks down at present there is no bus to replace it.
I am calling Question No. 15.
The Minister should tell us more about the Cooney Committee.
I will tell Deputies when the report is available.
We cannot have Question Time thrown into chaos.
We want to know when the report of that committee will be available.
This arises because of lack of information from the Government benches this afternoon.
I can assure the House with regard to the safety of carriage of children mentioned by Deputy Daly that, as far as pupils are concerned, their safety is a top priority in my Department and that no vehicle of any kind would be allowed to transport children to or from school——
They have no reserve buses whatsoever if one breaks down tomorrow.
Deputy Daly asked me a number of questions. I am telling him that no vehicle would be used to transport children unless proved to be safe. On the further question asked by the Deputy about the bus company closing down, that is a separate question for a different Minister.
When will Minister Cooney make his findings known?
I am calling Question No. 15.
Questions Nos. 13 and 14 postponed.
