asked the Minister for Education if she will give a breakdown of the envisaged membership of the proposed local education councils.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Local Education Councils.
25.
The proposed membership of the local education councils is fully outlined in the Green Paper Partners in Education which was issued by me on 11 November last. It is as follows:
The LECs would consist of, say 30-32* members nominated as follows:
|
10-12 |
from local authorities, depending on |
|
the number of authorities involved; |
|
|
(5) |
1 representative from each of the following: youth services, training/ Manpower agencies, adult education agencies and economic interests including the social partners; |
|
5 |
representatives of the authorities of voluntary secondary schools; |
|
3 |
representatives of the authorities of vocational, community and comprehensive schools; |
|
2 |
parents of post-primary pupils; |
|
3 |
primary school representatives (one parent, one teacher, one manager). |
|
30-32 |
*Note: Actual membership might be determined by order of the Minister to allow some variation between LECs. In the case of a council with part of the Gaeltacht included in its area, membership of the LEC would include at least one member from the Gaeltacht.
Earlier the Minister gave me a rather odd answer about democracy, and her ideas of democracy differ greatly from those of many other people and I am sure people would be interested to hear them. Does she think that in the number of ten to 12 — depending on the number of local authorities involved — this is a fair representation of persons elected by the will of the people through a ballot box on the LECs? I do not think it is. Her plan is an effort to diminish the power of local representatives, particularly as at this time they appear to be mainly of a particular political persuasion.
I regret very much that the Deputy should take up that position. I would consider that the proposed structure of the LECs enhances the democratisation and decentralisation of education. I remind the Deputy that at the moment local authority elected members concern themselves only with the VECs. These committees deal with one quarter of the school population. Under my proposals the LECs will be dealing with the whole school population. Therefore, one would be extending the range of influence of local authority elected members. It is also important to state that each individual school at local level will have representatives of the LEC on it, thereby extending much more the range of involvement of the local authority members through the LEC. I would consider the combination of all the appropriate interests. I am sure that the Deputy is not suggesting that representatives of voluntary settlement schools or the representatives of the social partners are non-democrats. I would very much consider the involvement of this type of grouping in the local education council as indeed an enhancement of democracy.
"Democrats" appears to be a word much bandied about — dressed up, by the way. I find it disturbing that while the Minister has envisaged a vast range of extra services and functions which it is proposed that the LECs will have, on the other hand she appears to think that this will not require the services of locally or regionally elected persons. Of course, there should be places for social partners and various people of industry. However, the whole set-up envisaged by the Minister is antidemocratic and takes away from the will of the people as expressed in their local representatives. That has been the primary virtue of the VECs. They prided themselves on their democratic, nondenominational nature. Bearing in mind that all sorts of persons put themselves forward for local elections, the composition of those committees has worked out extraordinary well and they have served the country very well. It is a very retrograde step that the Minister should seek to diminish the powers of local representatives who have proved so capable in the field of education.
I must reject totally any assertion that one is deminishing the powers of local representatives. One is, in fact, extending and increasing their sphere of influence.
That is not true.
That is untrue. The numbers do not bear that out. The figures given by the Minister will show a diminishing of the role of public representatives. She cannot say a situation exists when it does not.
We are in the realm of argument.
We are in the realm of Alice in Wonderland.
That is the factual position.