asked the Minister for Energy if he is considering issuing a mining licence for Leinster Coalfields to a Canadian based company; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Leinster Coalfields Mining Licence.
21.
Following detailed discussions and certain inquiries which I have had made, I have given my agreement in principle, subject to a number of conditions, to the assignment of the State mining leases at Rossmore, County Carlow, to a Canadian based company. My Department have also approved of the grant of certain prospecting facilities to the company in the Leinster coalfield.
The provision of facilities in the Leinster coalfield is designed to safeguard existing mining jobs in the area and to secure further mine development there.
Is the Minister aware that there were serious inaccuracies and misleading statements contained in news releases circulated on the Vancouver Stock Exchange by Amble Resources Limited, a company which has been granted the prospecting licence to which the Minister of State referred? Was the Minister aware of such inaccuracies before he granted the licence, or has he become aware of them since?
I am aware of an article in a national newspaper in this regard. I have made some inquiries. My Department have checked out with the Vancouver Stock Exchange the allegation that a stock exchange investigation was being carried out in regard to Amble Resources Limited. The reply received was to the effect that this was incorrect, indeed that the shares were being freely traded. I was not particularly pleased with the statement issued by the company. I asked them to issue a further statement, with my approval and that of my Department, and this they did freely. I am satisfied that the company is a freely traded one on the stock exchange in Vancouver and is not the subject of investigation.
I might say further, in relation to the article in the national newspaper, that comments contained therein would not meet with my approval but, since legal action may be taken in regard to that article, I would not wish to comment further.
Is the Minister totally happy that the company was a company to which he should have granted those licences? Is the Minister quite happy about that?
I am satisfied that what I did was in the best interests of the continuation of mining at Rossmore, County Carlow, and the preservation of the 52 jobs involved there. I have reached an agreement in principle. The conditions attaching to the agreement are normal ones: first, that the company would show to my satisfaction that they have the necessary financial and technical resources for a viable operation at Rossmore; secondly, that the company would make arrangements in relation to the debts of Clifbourn (Mining) Limited — that is the present licence holder — which are acceptable to the creditors. I understand that Amble Resources Limited have already invested money to secure some of the debts of that company, to ensure that mining is continued. Thirdly, I might say that Clifbourn (Mining) Limited have to satisfy me that they have not concluded other agreements which would stand in the way of the enjoyment of the leases by Amble Resources Limited. These are prudent provisions on which I insisted. Therefore, it will be seen that my consent is conditional. It must follow that the requirements I set down are met.
I find it difficult really to put the Minister of State's statements together. Is he aware that the dealings of another company, called Boulder Mountain Resources Ltd., operated by the same gentleman who is president of Amble Resources Ltd., were suspended on the Vancouver Stock Exchange last year? Is the Minister of State also suggesting seriously to me that he took all this matter into consideration plus all the misleading statements issued by Amble Resources Ltd. prior to getting the licences? I will give a couple of examples. First, they stated in a press release to the Vancouver Stock Exchange that they had already got licences, despite the fact that the application to the Department of Energy was made only on 28 October. They sent that out to investors on the Vancouver Stock Exchange saying that they had these licences although they did not apply for them until three weeks later. That can only be interpreted as soliciting investment into this country. Second, in the press release they sent out and the information they issued to the Vancouver Stock Exchange they doubled the amount of measured reserves that were available in the Leinster coalfields. The real figure is 5.5, not 10 as they said.
You are making a long speech.
These are serious matters. I am putting them on the record, and I want the Minister to deny them——
Probably you could make a speech on it on the budget.
If he did not know them, that is fine. If he knew them, then he was entirely wrong in issuing his prospecting licence to a company with that sort of suspect record, and he could not have satisfied himself in that regard. Do you want a few more facts?
I cannot allow a speech.
It is not a speech, it is a question. I am asking him if he is aware of the statements issued to the Vancouver Stock Exchange.
That does not make it a question. I am making you aware that a long litany of facts does not make it a question.
I am asking him if he is aware. I will start again.
That does not make it a question.
Did he take those facts into consideration when getting down to issue a licence? Is that a question?
I am ruling out a long statement.
This is too serious a matter for interruptions. Only a very few minutes are available to me but I want to put on the record of this House——
On a point of order——
——that this company issued misleading information to investors on the Vancouver Stock Exchange, that they quoted the Department of Energy time and time again in relation to it.
(Interruptions.)
Order.
I am asking the Minister of State to sit down and listen to what I have to say. There is no point in trying to bulldoze this question through this House.
Order.
These are instructions by a company which should be taken into consideration.
It is entirely inequitable that the Deputy should be allowed to speak and I not be allowed to reply.
Will the Minister of State resume his seat? All this arises from long statements being made at Question Time.
Do not point the finger at me.
It may very well be that this is an important matter which requires considerable time to tease out. If so, it is not suitable for Question Time and should be raised on another occasion, for example on the budget debate.
May I ask a question?
No, not by making speeches.
Will you call on me to reply?
I will call on the next business at 3.45 p.m. sharp.
Then it is unfair. Then I cannot reply.
I am asking the Minister of State finally if he was aware of all the misleading information that I have read out before he sat down to grant this company a licence. If so, did he consider, as he said, that that was not grievous enough to stop him giving out a licence?
I did not say that.
He did not say it here but he issued a statement last Friday saying that. If the Minister of State will keep quite I will ask a question.
The Deputy is misinforming the House. Probably he is representing other interests in this House.
The Deputy should now give him a minute——
Who is the other applicant for the licence?
I do not know.
The Deputy should know.
Does the Minister of State consider that it is right and proper for him to issue licences and let a company on the Vancouver Stock Exchange use the good name of Ireland and his own Department in relation to giving out misleading information on the stock exchange to lure in investors? Secondly — I got no answer to this — was the Minister of State aware that——
There is only a minute left.
(Interruptions.)
The Deputy does not want me to reply.
——the shares of another company, Boulder Mountain Resources, of which the same gentleman was chairman were suspended on the stock exchange last year? If he was so aware I am calling on the Minister of State to resign because he is irresponsible in regard to the issuing of mining licences.
The question was raised here in relation to one company, that is Amble Resources Ltd. That company's shares are freely trading on the Vancouver Stock Exchange. The statement they issued did not meet with my approval. I asked them to issue a correcting statement and they issued it. I have considered the transfer of the licence to Amble Resources Ltd. and, given the advice that I have received from my officials, to ensure the continued mining employment at Rossmore, I have given a conditional consent in regard to the transfer of that licence. I have already stated the conditions in the House and I do not want to repeat them. They are quite stringent and normal from the point of view of my Department. I deprecate absolutely the comments made by the Deputy on the far side of the House.
Answer the question.
For his information, I know full well that he is representing other interests here in this House.
That is a scandalous accusation. I have no knowledge whatever——
I am moving on to the next business.
I am calling on you, a Cheann Comhairle, in the interests of fair play in this House to ask the Minister of State to withdraw that accusation which has no foundation whatsoever. I am dealing with information that was available in the Canadian press and to the Vancouver Stock Exchange. I went to the bother of finding out, and I am calling on the Minister of State to withdraw that scandalous accusation.
The Deputy's accusation is scandalous and out of order.
It is not out of order. Did the Minister of State know about the other Canadian company being suspended?
I have allowed Deputy Reynolds to make an explanation——
Sir, I have one final question. Will the Minister withdraw the charge he made today that I am involved in other interests or looking for licences in the Leinster coalfield? I have no interest in anyone looking for licences and never had. If the Minister of State is half decent about it he will accept that.
It is very hard——
I will be happy as a courtesy to the Deputy to say that I am quite satisfied that he is not personally involved in any other application in relation to this application for a transfer of a lease.
That is not the same thing.
(Interruptions.)
Deputy O'Keeffe.
In view of totally non-commital answers from the Minister of State, may I ask for permission to raise this matter on the Adjournment?
I will communicate with the Deputy.
My answer was explicit.
I am making another appeal to you to give me permission to raise on the Adjournment the failure of the Minister for Health to make necessary funds available for the building of a structure to cover the radio therapy unit at the Cork Regional Hospital which services the Munster area and which has all been subscribed by voluntary subscription.
I will communicate with the Deputy.
With your permission I propose to raise on the Adjournment the drop in the value of the intervention grain element in the fruit and vegetable scheme.
I will communicate with Deputy Leonard.
I endeavoured to raise here by way of Private Notice Question the failure of the Government to support the bus building company at Shannon where 450 people recently lost employment as a result of the closure of that company. I put a question to the Minister for Communications to endeavour to get some indication from the Minister as to what proposals he had——
The Deputy sought to put the matter on private notice. I communicated through my secretary with the Deputy and explained to him that the question could not be accepted because it does not come within Standing Orders. This has been going on for months. A notice was served in December, the men were dispensed with on 24 January, and how that can be brought within the Standing Orders of urgency I do not know. I am not allowing an argument on it. I am sorry.
The company have been expecting to get from the Government an indication of what orders they would get for the coming year——
There is another way for the Deputy to raise that.
——from CIE for buses for the transport system and school buses for the Department of Education.
I am sorry, Deputy——
The position, obviously, is that——
Deputy Daly is out of order.
There has been some hope that the Minister might take some action to deal with the situation.
The Deputy put down a Private Notice Question about a fortnight ago and he knows that.
The matter did not arise until now.
They were dismissed. The men were laid off on 24 January 1986.
There was something unusual about the situation, because the men have still to finish work.
I call Deputy Gene Fitzgerald on the budget.
This situation has developed because of the failure of the Government to confirm whether they are going to get a further order or not.
I shall have to quote Standing Orders and I do not want to do that. I cannot allow the Deputy to ignore the Chair and I do not propose to do so. It is as simple as that.
It is not my intention to do that.
Then the Deputy will resume his seat.
It is disgraceful that the Minister is not prepared to come here and answer the question.
I have given you considerable latitude. I am now asking Deputy Daly to leave the House.
The Chair has been most unfair to the Deputy.
The Deputy should withdraw that statement.
Withdraw what?
Deputy Daly withdrew from the Chamber.
The Deputy has made a statement that the Chair's ruling is unfair.
Yes.
The Deputy should withdraw that. There must be respect for the Chair.
That is the second time that you asked a Deputy to leave the House for little or nothing.
If Deputies continue to ignore the Chair democracy as we understand it will not work. If that is the way the Deputies want it. I will not say that it is all right, but that would be the end of it. If they disagree seriously with the ruling of the Chair there are provisions within Standing Orders to bring me before the House. I shall not have any objection to that. It is not in the interests of the Chair, or of the House, or of the system of Government that the Chair should be completely and utterly ignored day after day in this House.