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Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 12 Feb 1986

Vol. 363 No. 11

Financial Resolutions 1986. - Financial Resolution No. 13: General (Resumed).

Debate resumed on the following motion:
That it is expedient to amend the law relating to customs and inland revenue (including excise) and to make further provision in connection with finance.
—(The Taoiseach.)

It is not the function of a backbencher automatically and without question to row in behind the Government on the budget. However, much that is in the budget is encouraging, particularly the relief for PAYE workers and the selective VAT cuts. It was a fair achievement to reduce PAYE taxation without having an inflationary effect or having an effect on normal family income. One had to look to another source for revenue and the Government looked to the financial and corporate sectors which was a move in the right direction.

The selective VAT cuts on hairdressing, laundry, meals, cleaning services, repairs to electrical goods and on the price of admission to cinemas and fun fairs were welcome because they are all in highly labour intensive areas. The Minister could extend the selective VAT cuts to other labour intensive areas. We realise that in future we will have to look to the services area as well as to the manufacturing area for the provision of jobs.

Many people were disappointed with the social welfare cuts, where long term benefits were increased by 5 per cent and short term benefits were increased by 4 per cent. We have all become used to 20 per cent rises in order to keep increases on a par with the inflation rate. It is good that social welfare payments should increase on a par with the level of inflation. The fact that we cannot give a greater increase is part of the overall attitude in the budget that we must all carry the can. The fact that every sector was giving out about the budget was a good thing; if only one sector were complaining it would imply that other sectors had done well. In that sense the budget was fair and just.

I should like to draw attention to a few policy trends. I would not be honest if I did not question some of these matters. I will ask specific questions on specific policy matters. Regarding the whole area of taxation, I should like to ask the Minister where the Government stand in relation to the reports of the Commission on Taxation. Have the Department of Finance done a further analysis on these reports? Does the Minister know what the flat rate of taxation would be as envisaged by the commission? However welcome an adjustment of allowance or tax bands may be, it is no substitute for long term structural reform. I have made this point before and will do so again. Every honest person in this House will realise that with a borrowing figure of over £20 billion, there is not room to have a major cut in PAYE taxation, but the Government should state their long term policy objectives so that the PAYE sector could look with hope to the future when there would be a much greater easing of the tax burden.

We must take a serious look at the whole area of public expenditure if it is to be reduced as a proportion of GNP. Each year every Department sets out a certain figure and seeks to gain an increase of 4 per cent or 5 per cent. We never question the original figure. Each Department should be made accountable for every item of expenditure. It should not be agreed automatically that there will be a percentage increase in a certain amount of money. We need more accountability in each Department for every item. Then and only then will we get effective cutbacks in public expenditure. A cut in public expenditure must be very well planned. One would have to go through the whole budget and consider every item of expenditure. The onus of proof should rest with every Department for every item of expenditure.

Will the business expansion scheme be expanded beyond 1986-87? If so, for how long? I suggest that the scheme is not long enough in operation to judge its economic effects and I urge that it be continued for the next four or five years so that venture capital companies and investors could be allowed to plan in the medium term. This would result in increased employment.

I would add a word of caution regarding the taxation of savings. As a result of this budget all interest will be taxed at the rate of 35 per cent. My fears are for the aged, the widowed and people with redundancy payments. These people will not be enabled to save. Let us take the case of an old age pensioner in receipt of a contributory pension and getting, perhaps, another £100 a month from the local creamery or the Department of Forestry or some other source. Not only will such people have to pay tax, but they will also have to pay PRSI as well, although the latter contribution could have no further relevance for them. They will also be above the eligibility limit for a medical card and all the other perquisites. The people who try to save will be hit again in an unfair and unjust way. The same will apply to widows.

In the matter of redundancy payments, a person is allowed to have £10,000 before paying tax. The British equivalent is £25,000. The lump sum is taxed and a person is all right for the first year while receiving unemployment benefit and payrelated benefit. After the first year, however, when a person applies for unemployment assistance he or she is assessed on means and income. The people who saved their lump sum are assessed on it for the second time. Those who gambled the money or spent it on drink will have no problem in satisfying the social welfare officer that they have no money in the bank and they will be entitled to full unemployment assistance. Now the people with the redundancy money are being hit a third time because they will be paying tax on the interest gained on the redundancy sum. It is most unfair.

I often wonder if the old stamp system was better. Under the existing system once a person has made a year's contributions he or she is entitled to the maximum benefit in every area. On the other hand, a person who had contributed for 20 years but had made no contributions in the previous year would be entitled to nothing whatever. Some people are taking advantage of the system by working for a year; when the benefits run out they go back to work for another year until they have made enough contributions to take advantage of the system again. People who are not taking advantage of the system cannot benefit other than by unemployment assistance if they do not have sufficient contributions. Often these people have big families and they are not able to cope.

According to an article in today's edition of the Irish Independent there is to be a welcome change and savings certificates are to be tax free. The article states:

Three Government sponsored savings schemes are to be exempt from the new retention tax announced by Finance Minister Alan Dukes in the Budget.

Mr. Dukes revealed last night that Savings Certificates, Savings Bonds and the National Savings Scheme will not be liable for the new tax measure.

The move is seen as bringing the Government backed schemes to a more competitive level with those offered by financial institutions.

The retention tax will also not apply to interest on savings with credit unions, or interest paid on Government securities.

The significance of Mr. Duke's clarification of the new tax laws will be examined by financial institutions today.

In a statement Mr. Dukes said he was revealing some of the details of the retention tax in reply to comments made about the effect of the tax on small savers.

"All savers, including investors not currently liable to tax, therefore have available to them a significant range of options to which the retention tax will not apply." he said.

While this is a very welcome change, I see one problem. Government-sponsored saving schemes are not competing on the open market. I am totally in favour of savings and against taxation on them, but this will create unfair competition in the market-place.

We face the huge problem that 17 per cent of our workforce are unemployed. I listened to the Leader of the Opposition speak on this matter last week. In anger and frustration I got up and left. While he made the very valid point that the Government were wrong in their projections for unemployment in the national plan, he went from calling us all liars to crying from the bottom of his heart about emigration. It is about time that we were all honest about unemployment. It is too big a problem to be bandied about. There are 240,000 people unemployed. Where are they to get jobs? No man in the world has found a solution. With increased mechanisation and automation, with our structure of population, with such a large young population, we cannot find productive jobs for all our people. Our growth rate is far too small, about 2 per cent if we are lucky. It is time we all stood up and said that we cannot see in the immediate future or, indeed, in the future, where these 240,000 jobs are to come from, and then asked what we are going to do about it.

Many young people have emigrated over the past few years. Many went from my town to Germany, or the US, or wherever and came back. Their experience was beneficial and when they came back their employability had improved and they could find jobs. I heard Charlie Haughey saying——

Deputy Haughey.

——that the Government have failed psychologically, economically and morally. He is going back 50 years, waving the green flag again, saying that if anybody emigrates from here the Government have failed. People should have a choice to emigrate if they so wish. Many people emigrate for experience or for financial reasons and they are happy to do so. If people want to emigrate when we have not the jobs to offer them, why should we stop them, particularly if they want to emigrate in the short term?

One problem is that many young people are emigrating and staying in countries illegally. Once they get inside the US they feel they cannot come out because if they come out they may never get back in. We have a problem with green cards and visas. With our friendly, hospitable and good connections with the Americans at present, we should be able to tell them that we have a huge problem here with our young people unemployed and unable to get work experience. We should ask the US to raise the quota of permits to go from Ireland to America for a few short years, even five years, after which each and every permit holder would have to return. We need not be ashamed to do that.

We are not forcing people out of this country, but we should not put a barrier in their way if they can get jobs and good experience and it is worth while for them economically and in other ways to go. I resent this emphasis on emigration and bringing back connotations of the Famine. We are gone from the Famine and the sooner we realise that the better.

However, employment creation has been the greatest area of failure on the part of the Government. We have far too many agencies and the number could be cut back by at least half. I share the feeling that the Government are not giving enough attention and effort to the area of employment. While a reduction in PAYE taxation, selective VAT cuts etc. will help, they will put only a very small dent in a huge problem. I heard Deputy McCreevy suggest in this House yesterday that the answer is in small business and small industry. Of course, that will help but it will not make a big hole in the figure of 240,000. If we are serious about small business and small industry and about encouraging the entrepreneur, then we should make some concrete provision for that. We have not done so. Charlie McCreevy gave the example——

Deputy McCreevy.

Deputy McCreevy gave the example of a person who starts up his own business and takes all the risks and ends up bankrupt. The alternative is to set up a limited company to ensure that you will not find yourself in a situation where your debts will not be paid etc. However, if one person sets up a small limited company he has to pay PAYE tax and corporation tax at 40 per cent. This is double taxation on someone who could have been on the dole. Instead of making a profit which would give him an opportunity to expand and employ other people, he is penalised so much with taxation that it is all he can do to keep himself going. In this area more jobs could be created. People will have to sit down and thresh this matter out.

Three or four years ago here in the Dáil suggestions were made by many people, including me, about being honest and facing up to the problem of unemployment. We said we had not enough work for all the people so we should decide on how to divide it. Suggestions were made of job sharing and job splitting. As far as I am aware, Aer Lingus started off with a few in the job sharing scheme. The Department of Social Welfare started such a scheme also and I would like the Minister for Social Welfare to give us an up-to-date report on job sharing in his Department. How many people are availing of the scheme there? I think the numbers are very small. We could be doing much more in this area.

I am fascinated by revenue inspectors. Small business people with one or two employees can have two revenue inspectors coming out to look at one book. Travelling expenses etc. must be paid to the inspectors for the day. On the other hand, we have not many inspectors to deal with Social Welfare frauds. If we are serious about public expenditure and cutbacks we need to look at this area, particularly in the cities where people are drawing unemployment benefit, deserted wife's benefit or whatever in two, three, four or five centres. Nobody seems to be doing anything about that. Does anybody intend to do anything in this regard? The public service is big enough to deploy people in that area.

Despite all the talk of doom and gloom which everybody hears all around, sometimes I wonder. My area has seen a good deal of public and local expenditure over the past two years. A sewerage scheme in Fermoy is costing £3.3 million and it is in progress for completion in 1986. We have looked for this sewerage scheme for 20 years and it came to fruition only under this Government. A water scheme is in progress in Mitchelstown costing in the region of £1 million. St. Patrick's Hospital, Fermoy, is being refurbished and reconstructured, including the provision of a lift. National schools have been built in Bartlemy, Ballygiblin and Ballyclough. A new vocational school costing £1 million is about to start in Fermoy and the Patrician Academy in Mallow are undertaking major reconstruction work costing another £1 million.

This Government have a record second to none in the area of housing. Since we took office three years ago we have not cut back in any way on the provision of corporation or county council housing. We have 40 new houses in Mitchelstown, 40 houses in Fermoy and houses in Bartlemy, Ballynoe, Conna, Glenville, Killavullan etc. We increased the £1,000 grant to £2,000 and we have a £3,000 mortgage subsidy. We introduced a new £5,000 grant for people prepared to transfer from a county council house to a house of their own. We introduced the Housing Finance Agency. Our best record probably is in this area.

Particularly over the last few months, people in the Cork area have been very impressed with the provision of precancer and cancer treating equipment in the Regional Hospital, Cork. Many who have suffered from the early stages of cancer have been successfully treated there. However, it is obvious that new equipment is needed if this work is to continue. My understanding is that the Minister for Health is not forthcoming on this. I appeal to him on Ash Wednesday, no smoking day, to provide the necessary equipment which would create a sense of stability and a confidence that we in Cork can look after ourselves and not always have to be dependent on Dublin. If the new equipment is not provided, we are back to square one and all the patients of the Cork area will have to be treated in Dublin, with the ensuing problems of transport and shortage of accommodation.

At the outset, I would like to say something about the general nature of this budget and the way in which the Minister for Finance aproached his task. The Government are suffering from a severe case of economic paralysis. This, the fourth budget in succession produced by the Coalition Government, is almost totally devoid of any development strategy. One of the first requirements of a budget is that it set out for the people proposals for economic and social development for the year ahead. That has been wiped out of this budget altogether. We have now a one-sided tinkering with the finances without looking to see where the country is going and what the economic development strategy should be. It is not as if it were this Government's and this Minister for Finance's first budget. The people are finally beginning to see what we predicted at the beginning of the reign of this Coalition, that there was no intention of having any development strategy within the budgets of that Coalition over the years and the fourth budget shows this very clearly. It is also very clear that we have got the worst of both worlds. The Government have failed quite patently to curb the national debt and the budget deficit. They cannot now say anything further about these figures. They are stark and realistic and represent a total failure on their part.

The Government based much of their pre-election propaganda on the magic wand that they could wave and that if people accepted the harsh measures they would bring in this would lead to a reduction in the national debt and that as a result everything would be well and they could then get back to considerations of employment, better welfare benefits and so on. The fact is that they have clearly failed in relation to the national debt. It has risen from £12.5 billion to £20.4 billion — a difference of £7.6 billion in just over three years, or a 60 per cent rise. That is the reality of the position of the Government.

We have had the lectures, hardships, hairshirts and depression traditionally associated with Coalitions. We have had the worst from that point of view but not of the best, even accepting all that hardship. We in the Opposition were prepared to go along with the Government in accepting that times were difficult. The trade unions also accepted this and moderated their demands. They said that if the Government thought that keeping pay demands down and accepting moderate, very small increases in pay demands and social welfare would help, they would agree to this and not disrupt the economy by having strikes. By and large, that is what the trade unions have done. Having accepted all that hardship in good faith, we are worse off at the end of the period. Our national debt has gone up, as I say, by 60 per cent which is an even greater restriction on the Government and the Minister in their activities now.

In the meantime, we have experienced the concomitants of this policy anticipated by us, which were unemployment and emigration. I am sorry for Deputy Barry that we have to mention and remention emigration because that has become a major part of our life. Even Deputy Barry indicated that it was a problem and that the reality could be found every day in the community. Families have been devastated by these four budgets but, above all, our youth have been neglected in a cynical way. Apart from a few palliatives such as short term courses and short term work, they have cast our youth aside. We hear echoing from the Government side that nothing can be done about emigration and unemployment. I know that the Coalition cannot do anything about these two problems, but this side of the House can and will if given the opportunity. Hopelessness is endemic in this budget. Therefore, the Minister for Finance makes no provision for development in the proposals which he has put before us.

The Coalition are now trying to extract blood from a stone and are finding it impossible. With all the acceptance of low standards of living and hardship, the people cannot accept the position any more. It is quite clear that the Coalition have no ideas. They are unable to tackle the problems of the country today and should face that reality. In each of the last three budgets tax revenue has shown a shortfall. In 1985 it was short by £123 million, in 1984, £40 million and in 1983, £49 million. What let the Minister down each time? The tax revenue was not there. Blood would not come from the stone. The ordinary people have no more to yield. They need leadership, strategy, investment in development. They need, above all, a new sense of confidence. How can we expect 1986 to be any different? It is incredible for the Minister to suggest that having had shortfalls in tax revenue in the last three budgets he will not have a shortfall in the present one. It is even more likely that there will be a greater shortfall this time. That stone has been drained completely. The Government are trying to squeeze taxes out of the economy faster than the economy is growing and that is not possible. Indeed, in the meantime the public capital programme has shrunk from 15½ per cent of GNP in 1982 to 10 per cent in 1986. That is a clear indication of the Government's withdrawal of resources from the economy. Eventually, it will have an effect on the revenue the Government hope to collect from the economy.

What does this mean? In simple terms it means that the Government have failed. That is clear in the figures I have given, in the Minister's statement and in his budget proposals. The Government have failed the country. They have only tinkered with our problems in the budget and not tackled the core of our problems. The strategy from the beginning was an abysmal failure. The Government did not deal with the problems from the outset and did not have any proposals for the future. Midas may bury his few shillings in the ground and return to look at it every so often but he is protected in the sense that interest is not running up all the time. The Government have cut back, held down initiative and are not using their talents, as the Bible would have advised them to do, to make something extra. Clearly, they have failed. They have robbed a little here and given back a little somewhere else. The budget is full of cosmetic manipulations but lacks a development plan. The people were prepared for hardship provided the resources were put to some constructive use but that has not happened.

The budget is similar to those introduced in the last three years by the Coalition. It lacks any semblance of a development plan. At one time Ministers for Finance were very proud of their development role. Economic development was so important at one time that it was decided to establish a separate Department to deal with it. The development role of Departments of Finance is questioned by some people because the Department is expected to carry out two functions, control spending and at the same time exercise a development role. The development element in the Department of Finance has withered under Deputy Dukes. He has let that function die. Now we do not have a development strategy in the Department. We have lost everything. The Minister for Finance has become the national liquidator who cynically and without mercy stands over the liquidation of companies. If we had a Minister for Finance who was prepared to take some risk those companies would have been given a chance of survival in these difficult times. However, we have to cope with the cold, merciless approach of the Minister who appears to take pleasure out of such liquidations.

There is another way to approach these problems and that must be contrasted with what is in the budget. There is a need for a coherent and balanced economic strategy. The need has never been greater than today. However, for the fourth year in succession the Coalition have produced a budget devoid of any semblance of economic development. They are preoccupied with expenditure cuts and reductions in services and this has resulted in a complete lack of investment in new products and market development. The Government have failed to provide any stimulus for enterprising investors or the many young, highly qualified people now being forced to emigrate.

Fianna Fáil have pointed to the urgent need for investment in our natural resources, the construction industry, agriculture, horticulture, mariculture, tourism and industrial and scientific technologies. Another approach could be adopted at this time but it has been ignored by the Government. The construction industry has been crying out for investment. I was disappointed that the Minister did not reduce the level of VAT on that industry. He must be aware of the tremendous difficulties the high VAT rate caused to that industry in the last 12 months. The decline in activity in the industry in 1985 — it is still continuing — was contributed to in a significant way by the doubling of the VAT rate in last year's budget. At that time I suggested that it would do damage to that sector particularly in regard to the building of new houses. There was a decline of 15 per cent in the number of new houses built in 1985.

A reversal of the VAT measure introduced last year would have given a major boost to activity in the construction industry. We are all aware that that industry is the big provider of employment in the Dublin region, an area where most of the unemployed live. That industry was also affected by a reduction of £25 million in the public capital expenditure programme. There have been cuts in sanitary services amounting to £4 million, £3 million in the case of schools, £3 million in respect of house purchase and improvement loans, £3.2 million in the case of the farm modernisation scheme and a cut of £3 million in IDA grants. The impact of those cuts will be extensive throughout the economy and they will further deflate the construction industry which is so important in the creation of employment. We can afford to invest in that industry because money spent in it amounts to an investment in our future. When we invest in roads and housing we have something to show for it.

Other ideas have been put to the Minister but he has ignored them. Those involved in the association that represents small businesses have said that their studies indicate that steps could be taken to create an economic climate that would generate between 60,000 and 70,000 additional jobs in that sector by 1990. It is not as if the Minister did not have proposals for job creation. We have suggested the development of marine culture and developments in the area of science and technology. We have indicated where new jobs can be created in those areas but the Minister turned a deaf ear to our proposals. It is interesting to note that there are only 13 indigenous companies in the food, electronics, chemical and pharmaceutical sectors which employ more than three research people. We have 15 such companies in the country as a whole. We could beneficially employ up to 1,000 extra researchers and technological personnel to develop new products, services and markets.

During the course of the year in various debates we heard a lot of talk about the highly qualified people we have but we could create 1,000 jobs for such people in the area of science and technology. They should be associated with the universities and put into industries that are almost devoid of development and research work. If we do not have such research work going on we will not develop our indigenous resources. There is a tremendous need for this kind of development but, instead of using the resources we have in terms of our people, they are being forced to go to America or elsewhere where their technology will form the basis of economic development in those other places. The loss is not only on the part of those who must go away. The loss is ours as a country, too.

Of all our indigenous companies only 15 have three or more researchers. This indicates how low the level of technology, development and research is within these companies. Many of our indigenous companies have no researchers. We are talking about areas in which there is much potential for development. I suggest that those indigenous companies who have a capacity for science and technology development should be helped by way of the Minister setting up a scheme to appoint 1,000 additional researchers and technological personnel who would help to develop new products, services and markets. These should be people who are associated with the universities. Some of our universities are extremely good in undertaking these tasks and they are only waiting to be given support, assistance and encouragement from the Minister for Finance. If he developed a scheme which would encourage the companies to take on the researchers and which would encourage the universities to place the personnel with the companies, we would have the linkage that is necessary to develop new products and indigenous scientific and technological products.

The universities and other third level institutions should be encouraged and assisted financially to become involved in such a development programme while industry should be given the incentive to participate in such a scheme. It is the function of the Government to stimulate and promote the capacity of industry to innovate. The NBST have indicated clearly the potential in this area and yet the Minister's proposals are devoid of any development strategy and there is a sinister deafness in relation to the problems our young people are experiencing. In other words, the Minister has ignored the potential that is available. If he fails to take up my suggestion, the resources that could be used now in terms of our proposals will not be available within a short few years because these people will be using their ability and expertise in America and elsewhere.

Because the Coalition have no hope, they offer no hope. Consequently, unemployment, emigration and national indebtedness continue to grow unchecked. The Government are trapped in a downward spiral of self perpetuating gloom. Unless this cycle is broken by a new and positively balanced approach the country faces massive unemployment, increased emigration and widespread depression. In relation to emigration it is clear that, as indicated by the CSO and as suggested by the passenger figures for 1984, there is a new massive loss of people to the country. There is argument as to whether the annual figure is 15,000 or 30,000 but we know that it is very substantial. Deputy Barry posed the question as to why we should complain if people wish to emigrate. We do not object to people moving around Europe or elsewhere if that is their wish and if they have the opportunity to do so. What we are complaining of is the enforced emigration of so many of our people and particularly young people.

We are one of the best equipped countries in terms of youth and of their ability and their capacity to help to develop this economy. All that is required is the leadership and the assistance necessary to enable them to put those resources into practice. We will continue to be angry so long as the Government ignore our people and what they have to contribute.

The Coalition policies in this, their fourth successive budget, have failed manifestly with the people and particularly the young. The most positive step the Government could take at this stage is to recognise this failure and to make way for a Fianna Fáil Government who would introduce a balanced programme of national reconstruction. In the past the people have looked to Fianna Fáil in times of depression and we have never been found wanting on those occasions, because we have always believed in the ability of our people and were prepared to stand by them and to enable them to develop the country that is theirs. We will do our utmost to prevent emigration.

So far as the budget is concerned one would be forgiven for thinking that crime was not a major problem. As I have pointed out, there is no evidence in the budget of a strategy for economic development. If one were studying this budget from an academic viewpoint one would have to say that the Minister for Finance has dropped the concept of social and economic development. One can think of the different approaches in this area in previous years. At one stage there was a Minister for Economic Planning and Development, for instance, while in the Lemass era the economic and development role of the Department of Finance was moved into high gear. That was what the people wanted at the time but this Minister is not moving economic development into high gear. He has dropped it totally. At best it is being put into neutral but possibly into reverse so far as the Minister's commitment is concerned.

The figures relating to indictable crime show an increase from 62,000 in 1978 to 99,700 in 1984. That was a decrease of 2½ per cent from the peak figure of 103,000. In the light of the size of this problem one would have expected the budget to have indicated that the major problems are unemployment, taxation and crime. That is the ABC of living in Ireland today. Let us consider what the Minister has to say in the budget on the matter of crime. The budget will have no effect in terms of easing the problem. There are no special provisions to tackle the widespread incidence of crime and vandalism. There are further cutbacks in the provisions for the Garda to the extent of £2.25 million. Therefore, one may expect that this will result in less Garda overtime and consequently in reduced availability of gardaí on the beat.

What is the point in Members from the Government side saying that there should be more gardaí on the beat when in practice the Minister is taking them from that role by way of reducing overtime? We know that already there has been a serious reduction in overtime for the Garda with the result that there are not enough gardaí available for duty at shopping centres, banks or at blocks of flats. We have gone into that matter here repeatedly. The Minister for Justice may say that when the problems arise more gardaí will be made available.

If that is the case we are only codding ourselves. The Minister is cutting back the amount in that case and he is cutting back on prisons. Does anybody think that our prisons will have fewer residents in the coming year than last year, or that the prison officers will be working less overtime? We lost one prison completely last year: it was wiped out, destroyed. Where is the policy on prisons? The Minister cannot come back later in the year and tell us it is up to the Minister for Justice to deal with the problem. This budget takes away resources from the prisons.

Let us look at some of the other things — for instance, criminal injury compensation. The amount for that is to be cut by £1.3 million, or by a third, from April. The Minister announced this cut after the budget in the midst of all the budget noise and fuss when a number of Ministers were rushing in to make their case briefly.

How will the Government reduce this allocation when more people are being mugged, attacked and assaulted and when there is no indication there will be a reduction in the general crime rate? The Minister is removing the pain and suffering clause from the compensation. It was appalling to see the Government doing that when we remember the experience of the victims of rapes and muggings. That reduction is typical of Government thinking. This is a mean petty Government who are making mean petty cutbacks.

Women suffering from rape attacks were given compensation under that clause. What a mean thing to cut it out. The old folk will suffer. We saw a photograph in a newspaper recently of an elderly lady in the west who died following attacks. Her face cried out from the newspaper page. The Minister is taking away compensation for those people. That is one of the ways the Minister for Finance will make his miserable saving from 1 April. I was amazed to see that cutback in the midst of such violence and when physical assaults are rampant. Surely the Minister must realise that the solution is to stop crime and punish the criminals.

Today we have seen further reductions in the resources to fight crime and criminals. I have just been referring to compensation for the victims of pain and suffering following attacks. The criminal compensation scheme has been adjudicated on by a tribunal, not by juries. Therefore, the Minister cannot say that juries have been awarding exorbitant rates of compensation. If he could have said that, he would probably have abolished juries. Average claims under this scheme have been approximately £4,500, and of course there will have been claims for £300, £400, £500 and £600. Yet we find the Minister cutting some of that allocation at the expense of people who have been the victims of pain and injury, whose property has been vandalised, the weakest in our community. From 1 April, a woman who has been raped will not get anything for her pain and suffering. Up to now she would have had compensation. It would not have been much and would not represent a drain on the resources of this great State.

What has the Minister to say about all this? I asked him a question and he replied that the scheme is proving very costly for the Exchequer, and following a review the Government have sanctioned changes in the conditions of the scheme "which I will announce in detail shortly". The £1.3 million for pain and suffering is to go on 1 April.

The malicious damages compensation system is being vandalised by the Government. They are about to virtually abolish it, except for damage done in riots and subversive activities. It will have very little effect in some areas, like Dublin 4, but it will have a major effect on Dublin Central and the people and business communities there. It is from there that the Minister will save his few shillings.

The budget is a strategy for crime, not for crime prevention, but the Government display general complacency in relation to it. There is no dynamic policy to tackle crime. The Minister for Finance has made selective reductions in VAT in certain services. The reduction has been from 25 per cent to 10 per cent in cases like contract cleaners. The strategy in this was aimed at bringing down the black economy operators. But the security industry is labour intensive: employment in it is estimated to be 3,000 in the recognised companies and about 2,000 in unregistered firms. Those employed include people with double jobs and people who are working and on the dole. The Minister had an opportunity in the budget to assist such an industry. Surely the security industry is an industry that should come to mind when thinking about selective reductions in VAT in certain circumstances. By reducing VAT here the Minister would bring more jobs onto the market and bring some jobs in the black economy out into the open and increase the contributions to PAYE and PRSI which registered companies are making. By applying this reduction from 25 per cent to 10 per cent one could bring 1,000 new jobs onto the market.

Already alarm installations are rated at 10 per cent, but the security services provided by people do not have the 10 per cent rating. The Minister should look at that in relation to changes he is making in that area. Lower VAT would result in more people using security on their premises. When one thinks about removing the malicious damages claims system one will need to provide more security and insurance. All of that would be assisted by the lower rate of VAT on the provision of security. I am reliably informed that approximately 50 per cent of the turnover of the security, guarding companies goes back to the State through contributions in tax, PRSI and levies. The State gets money from those, but not from the black economy.

I am concerned that the Government are dangerously complacent about the level of crime and that is why we see no measures in the budget to deal in particular with crime. The measures in the budget will worsen the crime situation. The Minister for Justice claims that the problem of drug abuse has plateaued out when it is quite obvious that he is unable to control the abuse of even controlled drugs in the prison system, notably in Mountjoy. Drugs like cannabis are now widely available in the community. Because of complacency, the Minister for Finance has reduced expenditure on overtime in the customs service in the ports and airports. Vigilance in relation to the importation of drugs has been reduced. That is a result of the general complacency of the Government in relation to crime and the fact that they are trying to make people believe that crime at the existing levels is something we have to accept.

It is similar to their approach to unemployment. They cannot be expected to do anything about it. They leave the gardaí short of the resources to do the job and they leave the customs agents short of the staff and overtime to carry out proper surveillance of the ports and airports. In 1985 a total of 1,424 people were treated for drug abuse in Jervis Street. That compares with a figure of 1,454 for the previous year and that is why the Minister says the figure is plateauing out. The Minister has failed to recognise that drugs are still a very serious problem and that new people are being affected by drugs all the time. As far as crime is concerned this budget will have only a negative effect. In relation to the economy and employment the Government are failing and in relation to crime the budget will worsen the situation.

On the question of social welfare this is an uncaring, inhuman budget. It would match anything that Cumann na nGaedheal ever produced in their heyday when they took the shilling from the old age pensioner. At that time it was a terrible thing to reduce the old age pension from ten shillings to nine shillings. It is hard to imagine the mentality that would produce that sort of thing. Yet in 1986 we have a Government so uncaring and inhuman that they give social welfare recipients a 4 per cent increase but nothing for their children. For the first time in history the children of the unemployed, the widowed, the handicapped and disabled get nothing. What have they done to the Government to deserve this punishment? What Cumann na nGaedheal did was hardly as bad as making no provision for children in the present circumstances. What could we expect from a Government who took 25 per cent off the extra week for old age pensioners at Christmas?

By making no provision for the children the Minister saves £9 million in one year. The Minister did away with the £100 tax allowance, the last vestige of special allowance provided for children in middle income families, and saved £30 million. On children alone the Minister has saved £39 million in this budget. The Minister will say he gave an increase in children's allowances. However, in 1983 there was no increase in children's allowances; in 1984 there was an increase of 7 per cent delayed until August; in 1985 there was no increase; and in 1986 the Minister gave an increase in children's allowances and expects us to cheer. The Minister is only giving the money he took in the past three years. The money would not even equal what should have been provided for children if the provision were made each year.

Added to that, food subsidies will be halved, which means that the price of bread and butter will go up shortly. The Minister put 2 per cent on the bulk of the supermarket items, the standard items which families must buy each week. How can the Minister be surprised when people say this is an anti-family Government and that this is another in a string of anti-family budgets? The miserable little increases are not much good to the old age pensioners, the widows or the unemployed. The Minister for Finance and the Minister for the Environment said they are happy that the Government have continued their good record in looking after people in receipt of social welfare benefits.

A budget is about the transfer of money, but money is not being transferred to the unemployed or the welfare groups this year. Money transfers are being reduced systematically by this Government. The Minister says that each of the increases given in the Government's earlier budgets has exceeded the following year's increase in the cost of living. That statement contains an awful lot and suggests that the Government are now trying to change the base on which these calculations are made. I was Minister for Health and Social Welfare and I had to prepare this sort of thing for budgets. However, one always prepared it on the previous year's inflation rate so that people were compensated for what they had lost that year. Now the Minister for Finance, through sleight of hand, is compensating for the inflation he expects in the year to come, which means that people lose out. That is a subtle change and people have not noticed it because they do not really care. Members of the House will not suffer as a result of the Minister's actions but the unemployed, disabled and genuinely in need will suffer severely.

In relation to the poor, elderly and unemployed there is one reprehensible measure in the budget, the confiscation of the savings of old age pensioners and children which arises as a result of the 35 per cent retention tax. There are good effects as a result of this tax being imposed but not as far as children are concerned. The Minister has become a piggybank robber, taking the Holy Communion and Confirmation money. The poor children have no way of getting this back. Not satisfied with that, he also comes down on the elderly who have meagre savings put by to give them security. Anyone who knows an elderly person realises that this money means a lot. I should like elderly people to be allowed to have a sum of £10,000 outside the reach of the Department of Finance. The Minister is now raiding these savings which is tantamount to confiscation because, heretofore, they would have been able to claim under exemption limits and tax. He is literally confiscating part of their savings.

These people are old and insecure and are hurt and confused by what the Government are doing. The elderly were originally asked by the Government to trust them and to put their savings in the banks and post offices to help to reduce crime and the risk of burglaries and mugging. They did so in good faith and then the Government take this mean action. Can you blame anybody for sending money out of the country? Those who have the opportunity to invest their money elsewhere are doing so because they do not trust the Government. Many TV and radio programmes featured the Minister for Justice and the Garda Commissioner telling old people to take their money out from under the bed and to invest it. I call on the Minister to change his policy in regard to the retention tax and to come up with some scheme designed to exempt children and those over 65 from this tax, either by non-confiscation in the first instance or by restitution. He has a duty to do one or the other. Responsibility for the budget deficit should not be placed on the shoulders of the leanaí or na daoine aosta.

It is not surprising that the Minister for Health and Social Welfare announced the closure of two major psychiatric hospitals the day after the budget because he needed a smokescreen to divert attention from the greatest clawback in children's allowances in the history of the State. A cut of £5 million in the health area was announced in the budget. Beaumont hospital was handed over in July 1983 and since then has cost £100,000 per month to keep it going. In the meantime, Jervis Street and the Richmond are working away at full blast using up all the resources. Beaumont hospital is costing almost £1.3 million per annum. The Minsiter for Finance announced cuts in awards to victims of rape and mugging but if he had opened Beaumont hospital when it should have opened he would have had more than enough money to compensate people. The Richmond and Jervis Street hospitals should have been closed by now and if they had been closed, a sum of at least £3 million would have been available to put back into the health service. I would have insisted on such a course but that may not be the case nowadays.

The only person holding up the opening of the hospital is the Minister for Health. It is a public scandal. It is a major hospital for the north side of Dublin and I call on the Minister for Finance to hold an inquiry into the scandalous waste of public moneys involved and to stop misleading people about the reality of the situation. When I was Minister I worked out an agreement with the consultants, which included a 1.3 acre site, to build and pay for themselves a private hospital in association with Beaumont. When the Minister, Deputy Desmond, came to office he revoked this agreement between the consultants and the Department of Health. We have now seen the results of that policy. I should also like to mention the effect that the 35 per cent tax will have on many charities and voluntary organisations by bringing them into the tax net. I hoped the Minister would have some new proposals, but there are no new proposals or ideas here.

As regards multiple sclerosis or cystic fibrosis, there is an anomaly in the granting of the constant care allowance to some of these families. A small percentage of patients registered have been refused the allowance based on the recommendations of the local officers. The Minister for Finance could say that such allowances would cost only buttons and that the allowance could be granted straightaway. We used to make a list of things which cost very little but were a great help, and I am very sorry to see that in this budget there is no such list. There is nothing here for people badly in need. There is no strategy in this budget for employment or development.

Deputy Molloy rose.

I will call Deputy Molloy next.

I welcome a few items in this budget which I have been asking the Minister for Finance to take into account for some time. The 1 per cent income levy has been an irritant which last year brought in £47 million. It was introduced in 1982 when the Government did not have enough measures to bring in revenue. I am glad to see that it has been only a temporary imposition. The 10 per cent cut in income tax is the most significant measure to have been introduced in the last number of years and some of the things which had to be done to pay for this 10 per cent cut are valid. I particularly welcome the reduction from 23 per cent to 10 per cent in VAT on cinemas, fun fairs and particularly meals in restaurants. This was one of the sectors which had no VAT on input but had a 23 per cent VAT on service. A retailer buys certain commodities and pays VAT. When he sells his products the VAT is included and then he claims back the VAT. Since there is no VAT on food there was a clear anomaly here because restaurateurs had to pay the 23 per cent VAT out of their profit margins. This reduction in VAT has been very welcome.

I am glad the Minister has taken the recommendation of the small businesses committee to increase VAT on parts from 23 per cent to 25 per cent and that the rate for labour for repairs of everything from shoes to television sets and motor cars has been reduced from 23 per cent to 10 per cent. If a person on the dole does a nixer and is in direct competition with a garage owner, the person on the dole has the advantage because the lower the VAT on parts the less need there is for him to register, and the higher the VAT on labour the more uncompetitive the registered contractor will be. The measures in the budget will combat that and force the man doing the nixer to register. This will make the registered contractor more competitive.

The trend to reduce the current budget deficit is very desirable and later I will itemise areas where I think public expenditure can be cut more effectively and with a lot less pain than some of the cuts we have seen already. I also welcome the child benefit scheme, particularly the change which allows parents a tax covenant of up to £600 especially by way of education grants.

In the mid-seventies a tax amnesty was introduced and now we are reintroducing that amnesty. I do not believe it will be adequate just to give immunity from prosecution to people to declare their sins. We have to look at how much companies owe in the areas of PAYE, PRSI and VAT, not people who are refusing to pay their own income tax. There should be a six months, or even a two months, amnesty for companies. If the Minister or the Revenue Commissioners told such companies they could write off the interest they owe, I know many companies would be willing to pay their arrears. The difficulty is that if a company is on the brink of insolvency and has huge revenue arrears, the last thing people taking over that company want to know about is that they will have to deal with those arrears. We must help people to take over these companies by granting an amnesty. In this way the Revenue Commissioners would get the principal because, under present company law, it would pay companies to go bust rather than to pay their tax debts because of the high interest owed. I realise that the Minister and some civil servants were very much against an amnesty and to get them to concede anything in this area was very difficult, but we must deal with this question of interest.

I welcome the equal treatment provision in the social welfare code and the farm modernisation scheme, with particular reference to the benefits for young farmers. The instalment premium for which Macra na Feirme and others have been lobbying strongly will give a welcome boost to young farmers' confidence. The current budget deficit must be tightened by increasing tax on the old reliables and making income tax changes for financial institutions. That broad approach is one which will meet with support from the majority of people who are paying very high income tax and are complaining bitterly that it does not pay them to work overtime, to be promoted and to work harder because a higher proportion of their income goes on income tax. There has been a welcome shift in this area in this budget and I prefer it to some of the options put forward by the Commission on Taxation, some of which I consider to be wholly unworkable.

I would like clarification from the Minister of Labour about certain cuts which have taken place in relation to Teamwork and the work experience programme. There seems to be an embargo on Teamwork and a quota arrangement for work experience in regional offices. Young people are not being taken on until April or May because there are already a certain number of people taking part in this programme. May I remind the Minister that there is a 75 per cent job placement rate here and there is a vital need to bridge the gap for young people between school and work?

When we talk about long term social welfare payments — unemployment assisstance — we should include disabled persons' maintenance allowances. I will deal with this in more detail in the debate on the Finance Bill and the Social Welfare Bill. I want to deal with the VAT threshold of £20,000 for the sale of goods. This has been at that level for three years and is a disadvantage for people with small shops — those selling sweets, bread, milk and so on. They now find themselves with a very high VAT liability and this can be costly in terms of overheads. I hope the Minister will consider keeping the level at what it was, in real terms, by increasing this threshold to £22,000. There is a precedent for this. In the seventies it was not announced in the budget that the threshold would be increased but it was announced in the Finance Bill.

I will deal now with retention tax. There is no basis in equity whereby one can deduct 35 per cent from someone's income if he does not have an income tax liability.

Hear, hear.

This is something we cannot argue. It is a matter of equity and justice. I favour putting the banks, the financial institutions and the building societies on the same footing. I actively sought for non-disclosure in the banks even if it meant a prepayment of tax. The fact that there are seven million deposit accounts speaks for itself. I understand from the Revenue Commissioners that on average the tax liability of most deposit holders is in excess of 35 per cent. There are people who have retired having sold their shops or farms and there are others whose sole livelihood depends on their investment income or on their savings in the financial institutions. It is unfair that 35 per cent of their income should be confiscated when they may not have an opportunity to exhaust their tax-free allowance.

The Minister spoke about the different saving schemes operating in the Post Office — they have a net 9 per cent rate of return which is most attractive — and the credit unions, both of which institutions have been exempt from tax. However, there must be a facility to allow people to declare that they have a nil tax liability or they must be allowed to exhaust their tax-free allowance. That will not represent any loss in resources. As a matter of equity that concession will have to be conceded in the Finance Bill because it is patently unfair and unjust to the weakest sections. Many people speak in an emotional way about old age pensioners. I appreciate that many elderly people put money aside for their burial expenses. However, I have often commented that an old age couple will get a social welfare pension of £84 per week while a husband on unemployment assistance will get only £54 for himself and his wife. I am not saying that old pensioners are well off but often when we talk about them we lose sight of a greater injustice, namely, the treatment given to people whose sole income is derived from their savings and investment.

As always, I try to put forward constructive ideas in a debate like this. In previous years I spoke about PRSI exemptions for new employees, grants for the construction industry and many other matters. A serious anomaly in respect of the incentive to work arises for large families. A person on social welfare who has more than four children knows it will never pay him to get a low paid job. It will never pay him to get the job of an agricultural labourer, to be employed at the minimum pay rates or to work in the general labour grades. We must ensure that people with more than four children are allowed to have a certain ongoing payment from the Department of Social Welfare if they get a job. Otherwise it does not pay people with children to work. I know of families in my constituency who have eight and ten children. I know of one woman who had her 15th baby the other day. It would never pay her husband to work. We must consider giving a supplement to large families to give them the necessary incentive to go to work.

There is also the matter of employers' PRSI contributions. I appreciate the concession made regarding new employees. I understand that on 23 October the Government announced they had asked the NESC to review PRSI rates in different sectors of industry. For example, for a business with a low labour intensity and a high capital intensity their rate of PRSI payments as a percentage of their operating surplus could be 10 per cent. On the other hand, a textile manufacturer or a construction firm, both of whom are labour intensive, will have to pay 40 per cent of their operating surplus on PRSI.

The employers' PRSI is a payroll tax. The more people a company employ the more tax they pay. This is a fundamental factor in creating a climate in which companies do not want to employ people. They get jobs carried out by contract and they do this with some justification. I understand that when this point was put to the NESC they were not prepared to unscramble the whole business of one sector not being willing to pick up the tab. We must look at the experience of the United Kingdom and consider what Chancellor Lawson has done with regard to employers' PRSI. He has abolished it. Up to now our Minister has always said we had the lowest rate of employers' PRSI in Europe but I think we must reconsider the matter now.

Even if we cannot afford to abolish employers' PRSI a method adopted in Holland might be employed here. It would not mean a loss to the Exchequer. The scheme in Holland levies PRSI on the firm but not per employee. I have seen this work in relation to certain companies. If PRSI were levied as a social security tax to meet our health and social welfare bill of £3.6 billion that would be effective. The NESC may say that they cannot reach agreement in relation to the employers' PRSI. The Government should set up an interdepartmental committee actively to pursue the feasibility of paying people with more than four children to go to work and, secondly, to levy PRSI per firm, not per job.

There is a major problem in relation to the employment of people who do casual work. If a farmer, a builder or hotelier wishes to take on a person on unemployment assistance for casual work three days per week, that person would have a hole in his head if he accepted that job. First, his unemployment assistance would be cut. Then, when he signs at the exchange on the following week for the two days he did not work the social welfare officer could take three weeks to administer the claim. Their practice is to pick out the gross earnings and divide by 50. If the person concerned earned £100 they will deduct £2 per week for the next year from unemployment assistance. A person would be made to take on part-time work. We must adopt a system to allow for flexible casual work. It should be possible for an employer to go to the exchange, to tell them he wants a certain person to work for three days and that he will pay them the money. What is needed is a new definition of work under the social welfare code.

We must look at major fundamental administrative changes such as defining work and considering the whole matter of PRSI contributions. We must consider the matter of category H contributions which involve fewer than 18 hours work per week. The scheme must be revised and we must have a flexible arrangement as is the case in Denmark.

Debate adjourned.
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