It is proposed to take Items Nos. 18, 19 and 1. Private Members' Business will be No. 108.
Order of Business.
I sought to address a Private Notice Question to the Taoiseach about the widespread incidence of violence, obstruction and intimidation in Northern Ireland yesterday and I hoped that the Taoiseach would make a statement about this matter. You, Sir, have ruled out that question and I find that exceptionally difficult to take.
I should like to reply to the Deputy.
I should like to make a further submission. Does it not strike you as extraordinary that in the British House of Commons today the Prime Minister and other Ministers will be answering questions and making statements regarding happenings in this part of our country to a section of our citizens but that in this House your ruling is to the effect that it cannot be raised by me by way of Private Notice Question?
I had to rule, Deputy Haughey, that the matter you sought to raise was not in order on a Private Notice Question. It is, of course, in order to raise it on ordinary notice. I gave the matter very full consideration and I had no alternative but to rule it out of order. Regarding the House of Commons, I am not familiar with their Standing Orders or rules of procedure and I am bound only by the Standing Orders which apply here. I know that there are different procedures there such as Prime Minister's Question Time and it may very well be that the rules are quite different. I gave this matter very full consideration and I am sorry that I could not allow it to be raised.
Your office conveyed to me that one of the grounds on which the question was not taken was that it related to a past event. I envy you your dispassionate view of very serious happenings and I also want to ask if you are satisfied in your official mind that the events that took place in Northern Ireland are not ongoing? Are you completely satisfied that there will be no further outbreaks either today or tomorrow or within the next week or two?
It was my official mind and not my personal mind in any shape or form that was brought to bear on the matter. If I were to enter into a discussion with Deputy Haughey what would happen would be that the question that was ruled out for the Taoiseach would be put to me and that would be an absurdity. I will not follow that line.
On the Order of Business, I should like to hear from you as to whether there is any way in which the Government propose to bring these very serious and ominous matters to the attention of the House, whether the Taoiseach is proposing to avail of any way of making a statement to the House, or if there is any way in which the minds of people can be set at rest to any extent, or at least whether people can be assured in regard to the appalling events that took place in Northern Ireland yesterday?
If the Deputy wishes to have the matter raised in a manner that is not provided for by the rules of the House, I can only suggest that the Whip of his party approach the Government Whip. I cannot say what the result of such an approach would be, but I have no other suggestion to offer.
I suggest that the ideal and the proper parliamentary way for the House to come to grips with this matter is by way of Private Notice Question. I regret that you have seen fit not to allow that course of action.
I know the Deputy will not seek to question the Chair's ruling. I have ruled that the matter does not arise by way of Private Notice Question.
I deplore your ruling and I consider it extraordinary and totally unsatisfactory that a serious outbreak——
I wish the Deputy would not proceed on those lines. I am in the Chair. I am not taking personally what the Deputy is saying but I must uphold the authority of the Chair.
I referred to your official mind and to your official capacity. I suggest to your official mind and to you in your official capacity that it is a totally unsatisfactory state of affairs, that with a near civil war situation prevailing in part of our country, with a large section of the Irish people being intimidated, obstructed and subjected to violence, I cannot ask the Taoiseach in this House about these events as a matter of urgency.
For the past three years at least I have been saying that, if Deputies are not satisfied with the procedures available to them for raising matters such as the one in question, the procedures should be changed; but no effort has been made to bring about any such change.
It is your interpretation of the proceedings that I am objecting to.
There is a remedy for that, too.
Why, Sir, do you put up with this bullying day in, day out?
(Interruptions.)
Order, please.
Will someone keep that academic cornerboy quiet?
The Deputy did not bully Deputy O'Malley and he will not bully anyone on this side of the House, either.
Deputy Kelly is becoming rapidly an academic figure of fun in this House. The sooner he realises that the better.
The Deputy betrays himself by the use of the adjective.
I have ruled in accordance with Standing Orders and with the rulings of my predecessors and I must ask Deputy Haughey to accept that ruling.
That was a disgraceful remark that Deputy Haughey made about Deputy Kelly.
If Deputy Haughey were not the Leader of his party I would take action against him but he should not avail of that position.
Surely I am entitled to make submissions to the Chair.
But you are not entitled to wrangle with the Chair.
Nor to bully the Chair.
You suggested, Sir——
I am not going to have any argument and I shall not allow the Deputy to proceed on those lines.
Will you accept a point of order, then?
Pursuing something that is out of order is not a point of order. It, too, is out of order.
On a point of order, I submit that my proposal is not out of order. You indicated that, if we were not satisfied with your position in the Chair, there is a course of action open to us. But it is precisely because I have no wish to embark on such a course of action that I am asking you in your official capacity to consider whether your interpretation of my question as not coming with in the rules of urgency is a correct interpretation. That is a legitimate point to put to you.
It is not a matter of whether I will allow the question. In accordance with my interpretation of the rules, I cannot allow it and I am asking the Deputy to accept that interpretation. He need not make any apology to me as Deputy Tom Fitzpatrick for taking any action that the rules provide for, but he should not continue in this disorderly fashion.
I appreciate your saying that, but I wish to assure you that I am only endeavouring to discharge my duty as Leader of the Opposition on what is a matter of urgent public importance.
Despite having been told that he was out of order the Deputy has spent almost ten minutes pursuing the matter. That is regrettable.
Is there anything more important to this House than the treatment of Irish citizens in Northern Ireland yesterday? Is there anything else we should be dealing with?
Yes. This House is more important.
This House has an important function in regard to these matters which I am asking for an opportunity to deal with.
I have explained to the Deputy time and again that if his request were in order it would be granted immediately. I cannot grant it and I would ask the Deputy to leave it at that.
By way of Private Notice Question I tried to raise the matter of the plight of the GAC factory at Shannon in view of Government commitments in regard to transport and of the loss of jobs of about 450 people, between those in situ and those who are serving the factory. This is a matter of some urgency and I understand that the courts are involved in it now. I am disappointed that you could not see your way to accepting the urgency element of the question.
The Deputy knows that if I could have accepted the question in accordance with the rules I would have done so, but that was not the case.
I am seeking your permission to raise the matter on the Adjournment.
The Chair will communicate with the Deputy.
Can the Taoiseach say whether he will allow special time in the House for the purpose of highlighting the serious problem facing agriculture due to the danger of the intervention support system being discontinued?
That does not arise in this way. The Deputy will have to find another way of raising the matter.
This is the most serious question facing agriculture since the introduction of the super-levy. There is no point in discussing the issue on the day after the fair.
Perhaps the Deputy should have been discussing the question last week, but he may not discuss it now.
In the past week there has been an enormous escalation in the incidence of robberies involving violence in Dublin. Because of this I sought, in conjunction with Deputy Ahern, to ask the Minister what action he proposed to take to provide protection for ordinary citizens and for business people in the circumstances. We are talking about a situation that is drastic but I was informed by your office that the issue lacks urgency. I fail to see the relevance of this House——
The Deputy was told that the matter lacked urgency as prescribed by the rules in relation to Private Notice Questions.
How can the crime wave sweeping Dublin at the moment lack urgency——
I shall not allow an argument on my ruling.
A separate question I tabled to have taken by way of Private Notice Question has been ruled out of order also. I should like the Taoiseach to clarify the position in regard to changes in the house improvement grants. When these changes were announced last week there was widespread confusion as to what was involved. What I was trying to bring about by way of Private Notice Question was that the Minister would clarify in the House how the system is to operate. Having spoken to my colleagues this morning, I am convinced that the people are not able to interpret the new guidelines.
The Deputy can table a question in this regard.
Many people will go ahead with house improvement works but will find that they do not fall within the requirements of the scheme.
The Deputy could have put down a question in this regard yesterday.
The advertisement relating to the changes only appeared in the papers on Friday last. I am appealing to the Taoiseach to ensure that the Minister clarifies the position.
The Deputy is not in order.
I wish to raise on the Adjournment whether the statement of the Minister for Communications about RTE yesterday conflicts with their obligations under the Broadcasting Acts to ensure accurate and impartial broadcasting and whether it is proper for him to seek to influence the character of news and current affairs coverage.
I will communicate with the Deputy.
That is a very shrewd question.
In view of the misleading information given to this House by the Minister for Communications recently I wish to raise on the Adjournment the question of the extension of broadcasting for Cork local radio.
I will communicate with the Deputy.
I wish to refute what Deputy Lyons said.
Could I ask the Minister for Communications in view of the serious imminent closure——
You may not ask a question at this stage. It is not in order, Deputy.