asked the Minister for Energy if he is considering reducing the price of natural gas to the Dublin Gas Company in line with recent reductions in oil prices in order for that company to remain competitive.
13.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Natural Gas.
3.
asked the Minister for Energy the negotiations, if any, which have taken place between the Government and Dublin Gas regarding conditions under which natural gas is supplied to that firm; if it is intended to alter the price structure or other conditions under which the gas is supplied; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
I propose to take Questions Nos. 3 and 13 together. Discussions between BGE, my Department and the company regarding changes in conditions under which gas is supplied to take account of difficulties which the company claim have been caused by the sharp drop in oil prices have been taking place for some time now. The gas price charged to the company is automatically adjusted downwards to take account of the fall in oil prices, but the company have sought adjustments over and over this. These discussions are continuing and it would be inappropriate to comment further on them at this stage. I hope, however, to be able to bring the matter to a conclusion in the near future.
Is the Minister aware that, according to the CII, energy costs here are running at 20 per cent higher than our European counterparts? Is he further aware that according to the same sources, manufacturing unemployment here is running at 21 per cent? In the context of those figures, will the Minister make better use of natural gas to assist manufacturing industry and unemployment?
I am not not in a position to agree or disagree with the Deputy's suggestions as to the CII figures. I have been aware for the past two years or so that we have higher energy costs. We have taken certain steps to reduce those costs to keep industry competitive and I will be announcing further progress in that area very shortly.
Would the Minister not agree that the major step he could take would be to bring forward an integrated energy policy, particularly with manufacturing industry in mind? Would he not agree that it is outrageous that we have not had an integrated energy policy designed around the need to create employment and to boost Irish industry? We seem to be going in all directions — the ESB are going in one direction, Bord Gáis in another and manufacturing unemployment is running at 21 per cent ——
The Deputy is having a discussion on energy which is not in order.
As Minister with responsibility for energy I have regular discussions with the relevant semi-State bodies in relation to having an integrated energy policy. One of the lessons of the seventies throughout Europe was that, irrespective of energy policies, there are many factors outside the control of individual Governments. I have had many discussions with my counterparts at European Energy Council meetings. One has to keep a certain amount of fluidity in energy policy to take account of, for example, the sharp drop in oil prices that we have seen in the last number of months. Energy policy is reviewed on an ongoing basis and I believe it is satisfactory at the present time.
In regard to the Minister's original reply, I understood him to say that the gas price was to be adjusted downwards, but that the company had sought adjustments. Could the Minister interpret what these adjustments are? Do they mean that the Dublin Gas Company, while accepting a reduction in price, were not prepared to pass it all on to the consumer? Was there an adjustment upwards in their price?
I should have explained that there is an arrangement for the adjustment of the price of gas over a certain time period and the shift which has occurred in the price of oil in the last number of months will not reflect itself for a certain period. One of the main areas where discussions are taking place is in relation to having a contract escalafor provision which will reflect changes to be able to track oil prices faster and to allow the gas company to remain competitive.
When was the adjustment made in relation to prices to the Dublin Gas Company? Is the Minister aware that while the conversion programme is on target, many people who have already converted are switching back, to oil because certain oil companies have already given reductions in the price of oil and that this is putting the Dublin Gas Company in a very critical financial position?
I am aware of the difficulties and the commercial facts of life as they affect individuals and industries who have converted to gas. The Deputy will be aware that sales of Dublin gas for the first two months of this year have increased substantially. There are adverse and plus factors involved.
When were the adjustments made?
No change has been made to date.
I am speaking of the oil related adjustments.
The Deputy is aware that it was on a six months basis but the company want that reduced to three months and that matter is under negotiation at present.
Have the adjustments been made in relation to the fall in oil prices?
No adjustment has been made to date.
What was the surplus of An Bord Gáis last year? Could the Minister give an assurance ——
I do not want to interrupt, but the question deals with Dublin Gas and the Deputy wants information on An Bord Gáis which I suspect I do not have on the file here.
My recollection is that it was about £60 million, but I thought the Minister might have the figure on file.
When we hear a word like "gas", we use that word in all its shapes, forms and extensions ——
This is money that might be available to reduce the burden on the ordinary domestic consumer.
It does not work that way and the Deputy knows that; one reduces it one end and increases it at the other.
Will the Minister ensure that the many thousands of Dublin consumers who have converted to natural gas will receive fair play, that the price will be lowered pro rata to maintain relationship with the price of oil, bearing in mind that its price went up in relation to that of oil? Will the price of natural gas now be reduced? Can Dublin Gas consumers rest at ease — having invested substantially over the past few years in heating systems and so on — that their interests will be looked after in that way?
Dublin Gas consumers can be assured they will receive fair play from me.