asked the Minister for Finance whether, in regard to the further inquiries which the Comptroller and Auditor General habitually in his annual report states he is making where he is not satisfied with a Department's explanation of expenditure, he will arrange for the Comptroller and Auditor General to publish, at quarterly intervals, supplementary reports indicating the nature of the replies to such further inquiries; whether he is satisfied with such replies; and in general, the control which is exercised by him to ensure that cases of unjustified expenditure brought to light by the Comptroller and Auditor General are properly followed up and that appropriate action is taken.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Comptroller and Auditor General Annual Reports.
12.
As the Deputy is aware, in accordance with Article 33 of the Constitution, the Comptroller and Auditor General reports to Dáil Éireann. It would not be proper for me, therefore, to instruct him as to how he should conduct his affairs.
If the Comptroller and Auditor General is not satisfied with an accounting officer's reply to his queries, or if a Department withhold information which the Comptroller and Auditor General considers necessary for his examination, he may qualify his certificate on the account and report the matter to the Dáil. The Committee of Public Accounts, who are established to examine the reports of the Comptroller and Auditor General, then consider the matter.
When the Comptroller and Auditor General draws attention in his report to instances where it appears to him that there has been loss, waste or uneconomic expenditure, the primary responsibility for taking corrective measures rests with the Department or Office responsible for the Vote involved. When problems come to the notice of my department in the course of the Comptroller and Auditor General's examination, or following publication of his report, they take appropriate action. Sometimes the Comptroller and Auditor General's report brings to light general problems or areas where there is a need to issue either new or revised instructions and in such cases my Department issue the necessary instructions to other Departments. Further, as a general rule any write-off or special payment requires the sanction of my Department. Before sanctioning a write-off a report is required from the Department involved which elicits whether the investigation has shown up a defect in the existing systems of control and, if so, what remedy is proposed.
In general, the procedure whereby a formal reply to the report of the Public Accounts Committee is prepared by my Department in consultation with the Departments concerned — this is termed "The Minute of the Minister for Finance on the Report of the Committee of Public Accounts"— ensures that the ongoing interaction between the Comptroller and Auditor General, the Public Accounts Committee and my Department is brought to a satisfactory conclusion in respect of matters initially identified by the Comptroller and Auditor General as requiring attention.
Would the Minister not acknowledge that in the past three years in particular many of the matters to which attention has been drawn in the reports of the Comptroller and Auditor General related to areas for which the Government have prime responsibility so that they should have been able to ensure that there would be no wasteful expenditure? While the Comptroller and Auditor General has a separate constitutional function, would the Minister not agree that it should not be a matter for the Comptroller and Auditor General to point out to the Government particularly where there is wasteful expenditure across a variety of areas that both the Committee of Public Accounts and the Committee on Public Expenditure have been considering for the past three years? These include very many areas in which the Government are responsible generally for the wasteful expenditure.
I cannot go beyond what I have said in the reply which was to the precise question as to what happens in regard to matters to which the Comptroller and Auditor General draws attention. There is a general responsibility on the Government and on all Departments to take steps to eliminate waste wherever it can be identified and to do so independently of whether attention is drawn to such areas by the Comptroller and Auditor General. However, not having the ability to read the Deputy's mind I do not know precisely what he is talking about but if he has in mind specific instances of waste to which he thinks attention is not being paid he should either bring them to the attention of the House by way of parliamentary question or draw them to my attention otherwise when I would have them investigated.
This must be a final supplementary from the Deputy.
For the moment I might refer to two of the numerous examples one could give, examples of where the Government succeed in spending money for nothing. Would the Minister agree that there was waste in the matter of the payment of consultancy fees as a consequence of the cancellation by the Government of the capital programme for prisons, one area to which the Comptroller and Auditor General drew attention.
That is a totally separate question.
The question relates to the reports of the Comptroller and Auditor General and to the bringing of those reports to the House.
But the Deputy is seeking to ask a totally different question.
Since the Chair is not allowing me to name specific cases I would refer the Minister to the reports of the two committees in question and particularly to the wasteful expenditure in the Office of Public Works where it was demonstrated clearly that there was waste as a consequence of Government decisions and also waste in the office of the Department of Justice. These are merely two of many examples.
I am confident that the Minister of State who is in charge of the Office of Public Works will be rigorous in the matter of pursuing any instance of waste in that office. I can tell the Deputy, too, that I intend to ensure that the reports of the Committee on Public Expenditure are studied in detail with a view to taking on board any constructive suggestion included in those reports. I should be happy to have a discussion with the committee on some occasion that would be convenient.
We would welcome that, but so far no action has been taken on the findings in those reports.