asked the Minister for Agriculture the date when the bovine TB eradication scheme commenced; the total sums of money to date spent on the scheme; and the reason the scheme has proved ineffective in eradicating bovine TB.
15.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Bovine TB.
4.
asked the Minister for Agriculture his views on the effectiveness of the TB eradication programme; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
I propose to take Questions Nos. 4 and 15 together.
Expenditure on the bovine TB eradication scheme from its commencement in 1954 up to the end of 1985 amounted to £186 million. When the scheme was launched in 1954 over 16 per cent of animals were reckoned to have tuberculosis, compared to current disease levels of 2.6 per cent of herds and 0.46 per cent of animals. The substantial improvement in the situation over the last 30 years has enabled our production and exports of livestock and livestock products to develop and prosper.
I reject any inference that the scheme has proved ineffective. In line with experience elsewhere the final residues of TB are always difficult to eliminate. Factors such as the volume and frequency of cattle movements, fragmentation of holdings and up to recently a certain lack of discipline in observing procedures and regulations have militated against the attainment of the eradication goal. I believe that the strong sense of discipline and urgency inherent in the 1985-86 round just ended, and which will continue under the 1986 programme, can lead to further significant progress against the disease.
Is the Minister satisfied that he is adhering to the Government's national plan, Building on Reality, the major plank of which was to eradicate this disease? Notwithstanding that, there has been a cutback in finances for this and the improvements are illusory. A change in the system of monitoring the disease is being relied on by the Department and the position is worse than it ever was.
The position is considerably better than it ever was. When replying to a question some time ago I made the point that there had been a cutback of £4½ million in the disease programme but I said I would make every effort to see to it that we got that money in the course of the year.
Where does the Minister expect to get it from?
When I try to explain something rationally here I get this type of abuse. I will endeavour to get that money as quickly as possible. This is not the best time to look for it when there are all sorts of financial changes in the offing. I should like to illustrate the improvement in the the position. When we started the intensive programme last June, the level of disease in the country was far too high. Tremendous progress has been made since, largely as a result of the new system under which the Department nominate the vet. That system has worked very well. The number of infected herds last October was 7,100 and earlier this month it had been reduced to 5,000. That amounts to a very drastic reduction in the number of infected herds. We will never eradicate the disease completely but we will get it down to acceptable levels. No country has a bovine TB disease free herd. It will always be there in some form but we want to get it down to an acceptable level. The level we have had for years past and the present level are not acceptable.
In many isolated areas there was a breakdown in the bovine TB scheme and many cows had to be slaughtered. Officials in the Department could not give us a reason why there was such a breakdown and, because of that, I should like to ask the Minister if he will consider having full testing in each county again this year, particularly in the dairying counties.
That would be my wish but it is contingent on my getting the moneys I need to do that. I should like to point out that on average every herd in the country has been tested 1½ times since last June. The counties more seriously affected have been tested twice, sometimes more frequently.
The information I have, as far as Meath is concerned, is that as a result of the cutbacks only a quarter test will be done. The Minister said that he hopes money will be made available and I should like him to give a commitment that an enormous amount of money will not be spent on staff.
I do not like giving commitments that I am not able to live up to.
What about Building on Reality?
The fact that we have a large number of staff is part and parcel of the scheme. There is not much use in having the scheme unless we can monitor the results as the testing goes on. I hope every area that is seriously affected will be tested at least once in the coming year, even within the present financial provisions. I hope the rest of the country will have monitoring tests. However, I am hopeful that I can get all the money necessary to carry out the testing that is needed.
(Limerick West): Will the Minister comment on an article in last week's issue of the Farmers Journal which alleged that there has been a change in the method by which the Department measure progress in the bovine TB eradication scheme?
I can state categorically that that article was highly incorrect and erroneous. It is a natural characteristic here that, if one is succeeding in doing something rather well, people get annoyed. They like to paint a bad news picture. That article is not consistent with what is happening.
In a recent interview the Minister said that some of the £4 million could be made by savings in his Department and I should like him to give an indication to the House of where those savings will be made.
I would rather not do that at this stage. I have given a general idea of what I hope will happen with currency changes, and so on, and savings in other sections but I do not wish to define the savings.
Will they be within the Minister's Department?
Yes.
Does the Minister expect to have major savings at the end of the year, similar to 1985? Is the Minister satisfied that there is an absolute commitment by the professionals involved in the disease eradication programme in regard to expediting the programme?
Yes, I am and the figures prove that. It is a slur or a smear that has been cast on the veterinary profession far too often. I must say that, from my communications and meetings with the veterinary profession, I am convinced that they are just as concerned as are the farmers and the general public in having the disease eradicated.
(Limerick West): Would the Minister give the House an assurance this afternoon that there will be at least one round of testing in the ensuing 12 months?
As stated, I cannot give any commitment that I can stand over absolutely. I said I am trying very hard to get the money and I expect that I will be able to get it.