asked the Minister for Justice if he has any proposals which might be effective in preventing stolen cars from proceeding at high speed in built-up areas, and thereby endangering the lives of citizens, especially children.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Stolen Cars.
23.
Details have been given in a number of public statements and on a number of occasions in this House of the measures taken by my predecessor and by the Garda authorities to deal with the problem of so-called "joy riding".
The Garda authorities have informed me that they are satisfied that these measures are proving effective in that there is a marked decrease in the number of vehicles taken by these so-called "joy riders". The number of unauthorised takings of motor vehicles in the Dublin metropolitan area has decreased by almost 18 per cent in the first four months of this year, compared with the corresponding period last year. The matter is being kept under review by the Garda authorities and further measures will be examined if the need arises.
What progress has been made with the pilot studies conducted by the Minister's predecessor on the use of spikes or spiked belts?
I think the Deputy is already aware of the situation in relation to the use of spiked belts. The matter has been discussed on several occasions in this House. So far these have not been used in any case.
Could the Minister say why they are not being used? Is he aware that according to a recent report in the Garda Review of May 1986 the Royal Canadian Mounted Police have been doing studies over the past few years which led to the use of the hallow spiked belt, which is considered to be the safest and most efficient tool for stopping a fleeing motor vehicle? The authorities purchased 14 such belts in 1982 and in 1983 they equipped all their units with them. They also undertook a training programme. It is claimed that these provide a very effective means of dealing with this problem. Is the Minister aware of this study and can he say why these spikes, which were being investigated here, have not been used here? Has he any intention of using them?
I remember particularly well the last occasion on which the matter was discussed in the House. I refer the Deputy to the Official Report of 22 April of this year. I remember it particularly because it was my birthday and my wedding anniversary and I was in the House talking about spiked belts. During the course of the debate, at columns 1255 and 1256, I indicated that very restrictive guidelines had been issued on the use of these spiked chains, I pointed out as follows:
They are restrictive because, as I said, the use of these chains can constitute a danger to other road users. The effect of these chains is to take away effectively the control of a vehicle which may be travelling at a very high speed. Therefore the circumstances in which they can be used without creating unwarranted danger to other road users are very restricted.
As regards the second part of the Deputut ty's question, I am aware of the studies to which he has referred and hope to have the opportunity in the near future to make some further inquiries with the Canadian police authorities about that and some other matters.
Is the Minister aware of the real danger, particularly to the lives of young children, from cars careering around communities? While I appreciate that there is a reduction in the number of such cases, there is still a serious problem. It constitutes a real danger, particularly to the lives of elderly people and children. I have seen this in practice on several occasions recently and have had representations from school teachers whose young pupils happened to be coming out of school at the time when one of these cars was passing. In those circumstances would the Minister not weigh the lives of those young children against the difficulties which may be involved in applying spiked belts, which seems to be working very well in Canada? Trials have been undertaken there and there is a claim that they are resulting in fewer damaged police cars——
That is not a question.
—— and less danger to life. I ask the Minister to bear in mind the real danger, especially to young children, when making up his mind on this subject. Would he pursue the matter fairly urgently?
I can assure the Deputy that I am fully aware of the danger to all kinds of road users and pedestrains of cars being driven in a highly irresponsible fashion at very high speeds. I am aware of the number of incidents to which the Deputy has referred. What I, and I believe the Attorney General and the Garda authorities, are concerned about is the danger of adding further to that risk in particular circumstances. That is something which I would have to weigh very carefully.
I would also make the point, which is relevant in the context of this debate, that the problem is a very different one in a built up urban area — these are the areas which the Deputy has in mind — from the problem in a less densely populated area.
Would the Minister have a look at the study to see what is happening in Canada? The police members there seem to be content to maintain contact with the offending vehicle, well knowing that the pursuit will end at a given point. They would not have to pursue in the same high speed way. Through radio contact they could choose a particular place. There could be a great deal of practical value in that. What spurs me to mention this is the danger I have seen in the streets, particularly to small children. That would have to be weighed against finding the appropriate spot for dealing with the car which is giving trouble.