asked the Minister for Foreign Affairs the information his Department have regarding the number of nuclear submarines passing through the Irish Sea each year for the past five years.
27.
Ceisteanna — Questions. Oral Answers. - Nuclear Submarines.
7.
asked the Minister for Foreign Affairs if, in view of the increased traffic of nuclear submarines through the Irish Sea and the consequent increased danger of a nuclear accident, the Government will initiate discussions with the nuclear powers with a view to securing international agreement on banning nuclear submarines from passing through the Irish Sea.
I propose to take Questions Nos. 7 and 27 together.
Information on the number of nuclear submarines passing through the Irish Sea is not available to my Department. Ireland's national control over foreign vessels ends at the three-mile limit of our territorial waters. Within these limits foreign vessels are entitled to exercise the rights of innocent passage. All submarines must identify themselves and travel on the surface when exercising these rights. Beyond our territorial waters are international waters to which all nations have free access under international law. It would not be realistic to expect that nations would voluntarily surrender their rights in international waters in the Irish Sea or elsewhere. The Government do not plan therefore to initiate discussions aimed at banning any vessels passing through the Irish Sea.
The Government have already taken action in relation to the safety of Irish vessels at sea, and particularly in the seas surrounding Ireland, which has been a matter of particular concern. An initiative that we have sponsored at the International Maritime Organisation aims at focusing attention on the problems posed to fishermen by submarine traffic with a view to securing a halt to incidents which have caused material and personal damage in recent years to fishing vessles in the Irish Sea as well as in other waters. We will be working to secure the acceptance of this initiative at the biennial meeting of the Assembly of the IMO in November 1987.
In view of the recent accident involving a fully armed Soviet nuclear submarine is the Minister concerned about the routine use of the Irish Sea for nuclear submarine traffic? Has the Minister considered requesting the various nuclear powers not to use the Irish Sea for routine exercises of missions?
I am very concerned about that and it is what prompted us to sponsor an initiative at the International Maritime Organisation about submerged submarines travelling in what is boatwise a very thickly populated part of the sea. There were two occasions when boats were sucked under when their nets were caught in submarines. That is an even greater danger although I recognise that there was a serious accident in the past fortnight regarding a nuclear armed submarine. We hope to focus attention on all the problms associated with submarines in closed waters where there are many boats and fishermen operating at the International Maritime Organisation. That is the correct forum in which to voice our concerns and get agreed solutions.
The Minister has indicated that he is not keen on the idea of an international agreement. Why does he consider that it would not be appropriate for Ireland to seek an international agreement from those countries who are using the Irish Sea — the United States, Britain and the Soviet Union? I am sure he is aware that the US have ten nuclear submarines in the Clyde Estuary and that each of these has 16 nuclear missiles. The recent incident involving the Soviet submarine shows the dangers there are for submarines travelling in the relatively shallow waters of the Irish Sea not only for fishermen but for the population on both sides of the Irish Sea.
The Deputy must have misunderstood what I said. I did not say I was not in favour of an international agreement. I am. We considered the matter to see where was the most appropriate place to raise it, express our concern and focus attention on the various problems which are posed by these submarines. We decided the best forum for this is the International Maritime Organisation who will meet next year. We hope to get agreement there. I am in favour of an international agreement if we can get one.
Is the Minister aware of the difficulties he would have in getting agreement at the International Maritime Organisation? Having regard to the fact that time is important would the Minister not agree that nuclear submarine traffic from the Holy Loch and Machriharish bases represent a potential threat even as of now and that this is a matter which he could take up directly with the authorities whose submarines are using the Irish Sea from these bases.
I am very well aware that while this is a a relatively closed stretch of water these submarines are based there. They are being shadowed by other submarines. They desire to remain concealed and pose a very real threat to safety. These are international waters and we have no control over them. The only waters we have control over are the three miles where they must be on the surface and identifiable. We cannot make our writ apply to international waters.