asked the Minister for Education her plans to bring about a more democratic primary and secondary education as a stimulus to general community self government.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Primary and Secondary Education Democracy.
3.
I believe that our education system has become more democratic in recent years. During this time we have seen the formation of boards of management in more and more schools at first and second level and an increasing involvement of parents in the system.
I intend to continue to encourage and to foster such developments. As Minister for Education I have endeavoured already to meet as many as possible of the groups and interests involved in education. It is my hope and intention to approach the problems affecting education on a co-operative basis by maintaining clear and open lines of communication between myself and all the parties interested in our education system.
It is important that a democratic society should do everything possible to develop its human resources as fully as possible. We as a nation should identify, foster and nurture the potential talents, aptitudes and abilities of our young people. We must develop the talents and creative potential of all our young people and ensure that the best possible use is made of our educational resources.
In addition schools will be encouraged to establish stronger links with the communities they serve and to work jointly with them in providing better educational opportunities, both in school and out of school, for young people to acquire the knowledge and skills necessary for them to become active and well-informed participants in a democratic society.
Before I question the Minister on that reply I take this, my first opportunity to do so, to welcome her to the House as Minister for Education and to wish her warmly every success in that very important portfolio. Arising from her answer, would she agree that some new structures are necessary to bring the different kinds of second level schools and primary schools too, in any one area into co-operation rather than, as exists at the moment, second level competition?
I thank Deputy Hussey for her very warm words. I appreciate fully what she has said. Let me in turn congratulate her on her appointment as Opposition spokesperson for Education. The world is a funny place.
In reply to the question the Deputy put to me on the matter of co-ordinating structures for education in order as she said, to bring about a more democratic way, I notice that she included primary schools in her question. In the Department of Education Green Paper which she issued for discussion, primary schools were not implicity included. I was of the opinion at that time, and nothing has changed my mind, that the democratic base as envisaged in the Green Paper was less than democratic in that the number of boards was reduced from 38 to 13 and I did not think that that in itself served the cause of democracy very well. The present system of post primary education has served the country well. We have an excellent system which, as I indicated in my first answer, has become much more democratic in recent weeks.
There are the various boards. We have the boards of management for community schools, comprehensive schools and Catholic secondary schools. The Deputy knows about the national schools. I and my Department are satisfied that in general the moves towards democratisation have been very positive in recent years. Further, I am of the opinion that parental involvement in VEC boards of management is important and I have asked my Department to look into ways by which that might be brought about.
I was referring to the question of competition and the confusion which exists between second level schools in particular with five different kinds of second level schools all run under different kinds of management, often competing with each other to the detriment of some of the schools in the area and to the detriment of the parents. Therefore, I ask the Minister if she would agree that new structures are needed and that the structures outlined in the Green Paper, Partners in Education had the virtue of bringing those groups together. She may disagree with the size of the units in the structure, but will she clarify for us whether she is throwing out all of those ideas in the Green Paper about co-operation.
First, I do not agree that there is confusion within the Department of Education.
I did not say that.
I have found a very strong sense of commitment within all sectors of the Department since I took office. With regard to the question as to whether the competing interests which serve second level do not serve the cause of education, I know that within my Department the greater move towards co-ordination within the planning of resources at second level has had great effect in the forward projections and planning for the provision of second level schools, and I am satisfied that this matter is being pursued vigorously.
With regard to the third point the Deputy raised, as to whether I intend to throw out all of the proposals of the Green Paper, I intend to study very carefully all of those proposals and to come up in the end with my own proposals of whatever shade.
I also welcome the Minister and congratulate her on her appointment in the Department of Education. I wish her a very successful term of office and hope that education will thrive under her good stewardship.
Let me ask one simple question in relation to the question on the Order Paper. What fresh proposals has the new Minister to encourage parents actively to become more involved in every aspect of their children's education? It would seem to me that to date very often when we are planning——
A question please, Deputy Quill.
——parents are the very last people to be consulted.
I thank Deputy Quill for her courteous words of welcome to me and I congratulate her also on her appointment as spokesperson on Education for the Progressive Democrats.
The question she put to me was about parental involvement and I addressed myself to that briefly when I answered Deputy Hussey. At the primary school level I am satisfied that parental involvement in the boards of management is working satisfactorily. The various moves towards democratisation in the area of community, comprehensive, Catholic, secondary and now — my own idea — boards of VECs will lead to a greater degree of parental involvement. I agree with the Deputy that parents for one reason or another are sometimes quite aggrieved that they seem to be one of the last groups to be asked for opinions but I am satisfied that generally that is a perception rather than the reality. I hope during my tenure of office that parents will continue along the road on which they have started out because nobody knows a child as well as his or her parents do.
I join with other speakers in welcoming the Minister and wishing her well. With regard to the Minister's point of view that democratisation of the educational system is desirable, can she explain why, when the very savage educational cuts which have been implemented were being put into force, the VECs, the most democratic of the educational systems we have at the moment, were most severely hit, to such a degree that some schools will not be able to buy chalk? Within that cut the adult literacy "second chance" scheme has been abandoned. How does this compare with the Minister's wish to have more democratic schooling systems?
I am afraid we are now having a widening of discussion. Question No. 4 please.
That is a separate question.
I wanted to ask——
I have dwelt at length on this question. I want to make progress on other questions also. I will allow the Deputy a very brief question.
My questions are always very brief. Will the Minister explain to the House how she can say that the Government of the schools is in any way democratic when the parents' representation thereon is confined to one or two parents on school boards of maybe 12, 14 or 16 people? How can one say that is democracy? Does the Minister have it in mind to increase the parents' representation on these school boards to a substantial extent that will give some meaning to the suggestion that democracy exists in the Government?
We are having repetition in respect of parent representation.
I thank Deputy Stagg for his good wishes but I regret the question he put was of another nature. I hope we will have an opportunity to talk about it again. With regard to what Deputy Taylor asked, the present democracy on school boards has existed for the past four years. I have clearly expressed my wish to see parents play a meaningful role in education. I will bear Deputy Taylor's suggestions in mind — although I am not saying I will implement them — when reviewing the operations of these boards.