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Dáil Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 9 Jun 1987

Vol. 373 No. 4

Private Members' Business. - Vote 35: Marine.

I move:

That a supplementary sum not exceeding £1,000 be granted to defray the charge which will come in course of payment during the year ending on the 31st day of December, 1987, for the salaries and expenses of the Office of the Minister for the Marine, including certain services, adminstered by that Office, and for payment of certain grants and sundry grants-in-aid.

It is a privilege for me, as first Minister for the Marine in the history of the State, to introduce this supplementary estimate for Roinn na Mara and thereby afford the House an opportunity to debate marine affairs and fisheries.

When in Opposition, Fianna Fáil prepared a policy document entitled "Roinn na Mara, Department of the Marine". This document highlighted weaknesses in the approach of central Government to the marine economy. It outlined, inter alia, (i) wasteful utilisation of Government financial and human resources; (ii) demarcation overlaps in policy between Government Departments and agencies operating both within and outside the marine field; (iii) absence of forward development planning relating to existing established marine resources and those with developmental potential; (iv) lack of cohesion in approach to international maritime developments which impinge on national interests; and (v) inadequate investment in research and development. All of these indicated very clearly the need for a new initiative in this area.

It was also pointed out that no fewer than nine of the then existing Departments had varying degrees of involvement in marine development. While involvement of some of these Departments in maritime affairs may be justifiable, this fragmentation led to the absence of an overall cohesive marine policy. Fianna Fáil promised to end this unsatisfactory situation in the marine and establish a new marine Department. This has been done. Relevant functions previously performed by the Departments of Tourism, Fisheries and Forestry, Communications and the Gaeltacht have been transferred to the new Department. These functions include sea and inland fisheries, aquaculture development, fishery harbours, commercial harbours, licensing of the foreshore, shipping, marine search, rescue, and safety, marine pollution and dumping at sea. Other marine related activities are being reviewed with a view to ascertaining the most effective administrative location for them.

The overall situation since the foundation of the State has been that we have never had an administrative structure which would look at the marine economic potential development area and put an administrative structure in place which would utilise to the maximum potential in every aspect this huge resource we have as an island nation. The decision speedily taken by the Government is a recognition of the importance of the marine economy and the necessity for the commercial drive and development which is so essential if we are to exploit to the fullest possibility the jobs and revenue for the State from the vast potential we have as an island nation.

The sea and shellfish catches, excluding salmon, by Irish registered vessels in 1986 amounted to 223,450 tonnes valued at £64.4 million compared to 222,200 tonnes in 1985 valued at £60 million. Higher fish prices and a sharp reduction in fuel oil prices have resulted in a major upturn in the fortunes of the sea fishing industry. A good indication of the recovery of the industry and of future expectations is the upsurge, in 1986, in grant and loan applications to BIM for new vessels in the size range of 18 metres to 33 metres. This year also saw the £6 million supertrawler Atlantic Challenge, Ireland's biggest fishing vessel, join the fleet. By year end a further four vessels in the 200-300 ft. class, with on-board processing facilities, geared mainly towards non-quota horse mackerel and blue whiting fisheries were placed on order.

The fish processing industry had a year of mixed fortunes but export sales performance was nevertheless exceptionally good. There were buoyant markets for white fish, herring roe and shellfish, shore-frozen horse mackerel and a growing range of added-value products. The total value of exports is estimated at £102 million. Erratic supplies of whitefish accompanied by high quayside prices and an unsatisfactory mackerel season were the main difficulties encountered. The mackerel season started off with excess supply, low demand and full cold stores from 1985 but that situation had been reversed by the end of the year.

Investment in shore based fish processing facilities continued in 1986. Five fish processing projects, with an associated fixed asset investment of £3.84 million, received State aid amounting to £714,000 and were approved by the EC Commission for FEOGA grant-aid of £1.11 million.

The 1987 provision for Bord Iascaigh Mhara is £9.547 million. This includes a capital allocation of £2.02 million to be spent mainly on grants for the purchase of new fishing vessels, the improvement of existing vessels and the setting up of mariculture projects. A further £2.385 million is provided for loans by BIM to fishermen for the purchase of new or secondhand vessels and for vessel improvements. The BIM investment will be supplemented by EC grants and bank loans.

The Government consider that BIM are the appropriate agency for all market development of fish and have, therefore, reversed the decision of the previous Government that the marketing function be transferred to CTT. The fishing industry requires a totally integrated approach from production through to marketing and BIM have the necessary expertise at all stages of the production-marketing chain. I might add that this decision has the unanimous support of all sectors of the fishing industry.

On the sea fisheries side, we continue to work within the framework of the Common Fisheries Policy, the provisions of which are applicable in all member states. The policy has been strengthened in recent times by the introduction of a number of conservation and technical regulations. Our fishermen should continue to support these measures so that we may benefit from the consequent increases in stock levels in the future.

The single most important element of the Common Fisheries Policy from our point of view is, of course, the catch quotas available to the Irish fishing fleet. The quotas available in 1987 were agreed last December. Discussions on the 1988 quotas will not take place until later this year. I felt that I could not wait that long to present my views on these quotas and other matters affecting the Irish fishing industry and so during April both the Minister of State, Deputy Gallagher, and myself went to Brussels to meet with the Commissioner with responsibility for Fisheries, Mr. Cardoso E. Cunha.

During the discussions, which covered a wide range of issues, we raised the question of Irish quotas generally with specific emphasis on those species of greatest importance to us. We invited the Commissioner to visit Ireland and see the situation at first hand. It is expected that this visit will take place some time next month and I will be availing of that opportunity to press again for the maximum quotas possible for Irish fishermen. It would be my intention that during his visit the Commissioner should meet with various fishing groups so that he will be fully aware of the Irish situation. I propose also during the Commissioner's visit to take him to some of the fishing harbours and landing places so that he can see the position in which the Irish fishing industry is now poised and whether we can identify clearly the potential we have for further development and expansion in the area of fishing activities.

I am convinced that there is significant scope for the development and expansion of the Irish fishing industry. Already we are developing a highly lucrative nephrops fishery and there is also scope for increased fishing effort on whitefish. It is important that we should utilise our whitefish quotas, as failure to do so may militate against us in our quest for increased quotas. In addition, the shortfall in the availability of whitefish, on the UK market in particular, consequent on the reduced whitefish quotas in the North Sea, means that top prices are available to our fishermen. We should encourage the industry, particularly the fishermen to use the maximum quotas available which at the moment are not being fully taken up. It is difficult to make a case for increased quotas when within the existing quota arrangement some of the species of fish available to Irish fishermen are not being fully taken up.

Interest has been expressed by a number of our fishermen in the past in conducting exploratory fishing to determine the extent of the possibilities that exist in relation to certain species, particularly non-quota ones. Should these efforts prove successful then significant new possibilities could be opened up for our fishermen. This is the type of "pioneering spirit" which must be encouraged and supported.

In the event of quotas being introduced for some of the species which are presently non-quota, our quota will be determined on our historic performance in these areas. I would draw the attention of the industry to the opportunities that are there and to the fact that if quotas are introduced for new species our quota will be determined by our past efforts. It is important now to fish these species to the maximum possible.

The new EC structures package offers continued opportunities to the industry by way of financial assistance towards fleet modernisation and renewal, aquaculture, etc. It includes a number of new and innovative measures such as aid for searching out new markets, provision of facilities at ports, both of which are particularly welcome from my point of view. We have benefited considerably from the Community's schemes in the past and it is my intention that we should seek to increase this in the future in order to promote the development and expansion of the Irish fishing industry. To this end the BIM marine credit plan is being reviewed and consideration is being given to the inclusion of vessels over 33 metres under the plan in order that they may qualify for EC aid.

The amount allocated this year in Subhead C2 of the Vote for fishery harbour development is £1,700,000. This sum in the main will be used for ongoing harbour development works at a number of locations with a small amount being allocated to some minor new works which are urgently needed. A small amount of money to develop some of the smaller landing places and harbours could be of great benefit to the fishermen in these areas. It could mean the difference between the fleet being able to expand fishing activities and not being able to expand at all. I will be looking at some of the smaller landing places to see how small amounts of money can help to improve facilities and help the overall fishing effort.

The general interest in fish-farming continues to grow particularly in salmon farming. Generous grants are available for both pilot and commercial scale projects to encourage further development to take place. The new EC structures policy negotiated last year makes specific allocations for aquaculture and will greatly assist development of the industry in the coming years.

Notable success has been achieved recently on the implementation of the designation process provided for under the 1980 Fisheries Act. Fourteen areas have now been designated. These designations provide a sound legal basis for the future development of aquaculture and include virtually all of the area suitable for mariculture from Greatman's Bay in County Galway to Broadhaven Bay in County Mayo. Extensive areas in Counties Donegal, Kerry and Louth have also been designated.

Production of farmed salmon in 1986 amounted to 1,215 tonnes which was more than double the 1985 figure. It is estimated that by 1992 production will have reached at least 10,000 tonnes — a significant increase by any standard.

Shellfish production is also set to rise dramatically during the coming years with a number of local community based oyster fishery development plans coming to fruition.

The future for aquaculture in Ireland is very hopeful but it is essential that proper arrangments are in place to realise its full potential. I am at present engaged in a review of the aquaculture development programme and I will shortly be making detailed proposals to the Government in this area.

The amount being allocated to Inland Fisheries Development is £5,582,000. Of this a sum of £4,814,000 is being allocated to the Central and Regional Fisheries Boards to enable them to carry out their functions in the conservation, protection and development of our inland fisheries. In addition a sum of £350,000 has been provided for the purchase of the very valuable Moy Fishery at Ballina by the State.

The angling potential of our rivers as a source of leisure for our people and as a means of attracting angling tourists from Britain and mainland Europe has not received the recognition it deserved. resources available to me to develop and expand this very valuable resource by means of improving and enhancing stocks, continuing research, co-operating with relevant Government colleagues in monitoring and combating pollution in our rivers and making people more aware of the great potential of this amenity.

It is only fair to say that those benefiting from angling developments should make some effort in return to the further development of the resource. This is something I intend to address in the near future.

While recognising the importance of trout and coarse fish in the inland fisheries scene, no one will disagree that salmon has a special place in the hearts of the Irish people and has been a very emotive issue over the years. As members are aware a salmon review group in my Department have been examining the effectiveness of the salmon protection regulations. The group have received many submissions and met many deputations in the course of their review and have identified many complex problems. They will be presenting an interim report to me in the near future. While in no way wishing to pre-empt the recommendations of the group I wish to make three points.

First, I am satisfied that the greatest return to the State from salmon can be got from angling. Secondly, sea fishing for salmon plays an important role in some communities and thirdly, I am determined to do all in my power to eliminate illegal salmon fishing. Illegal fishing at sea causes severe damage to salmon stocks and cannot be allowed to continue. I have directed the regional managers in each of the regions to make a special effort this season to stamp out illegal salmon fishing which is damaging the future prospects of salmon stocks and putting the livelihoods of many people in jeopardy. There will be no let up in my drive to stamp out illegal salmon fishing and all illegal fishing.

The protection, development nad conservation of inland fisheries is carried out by the fisheries boards on my behalf under the Fisheries Act, 1980. The previous Government took a decision to abolish the Central Fisheries Board. I am presently examining the structures, functions and role of the central and regional fisheries boards in the context of Roinn na Mara. The future, nature, composition and functions of the boards will have to be carefully considered. I will welcome any views which the various interests concerned may wish to offer on these issues.

I have already met a number of fishery boards. It is my intention to see all the fishery boards in the course of the next few weeks to outline to them a number of key areas to which they should pay more attention and to impress on them the desirability of preparing a developmental programme for the whole inland fisheries area so that we can utilise to the maximum our inland fisheries resource. We can make Ireland the angling centre of Europe. I will be directing the boards to see to it that they undertake the necessary developmental programmes within their areas of responsibility.

A sum of £130,000 is provided as my Department's contribution to the Foyle Fisheries Commission. This is a statutory body set up under legislation enacted here and in Northern Ireland in 1952 with responsibility for the conservation, protection and improvement of fisheries in the Foyle area. It is a fine example of North-South co-operation carried on unobtrusively for many years. The deficit in the operation of the commission's activities are funded on a 50:50 basis by my Department and the Department of Agriculture for Northern Ireland.

The objectives of Roinn na Mara in relation to the Irish merchant shipping industry are two fold: to foster the development of a viable industry under the Irish flag which will serve our strategic and trading needs and to ensure that the industry operates in a safe maritime environment.

In framing a maritime policy which is now the responsibility of Roinn na Mara, for the years ahead, I see a need for steps to develop once more a deep sea Irish fleet, beginning in a modest way, perhaps, and expanding as trading opportunities are indentified and exploited. I have to say, however, that the extent to which existing assistance for the industry can be augmented is limited in view of the present constraints on the Exchequer and other competing needs on Exchequer funding.

I will introduce legislation shortly to give effect to the scheme of investment grants for the shipping industry. These will provide for the payment of 25 per cent grants towards the purchase of new and secondhand vessels by the private sector of the Irish shipping industry. A provision of £1.5 million was made for this scheme in the Estimate. In addition the industry will benefit from the application of the 10 per cent rate of corporation tax and the extension to it of the business expansion scheme as provided in the Finance Bill. These measures are necessary having regard to the depressed state of the industry, if shipping is to be revitalised and expanded.

Within the overall picture of continuing surplus capacity on a world scale, the EC share of world tonnage has steadily declined since the beginning of the decade. The competitiveness of the EC fleet vis-à-vis its foreign competitors has suffered badly. In the context of these difficulties, the adoption last December by the Council of Ministers of a package of maritime regulations is welcomed as an important and historic initiative.

It is to be regretted, however, that the Council of Ministers was not able to reach agreement on the liberalisation of internal shipping services, but I am confident that it will be able to resolve these difficulties and to move forward. Ireland's position is, of course, clear: we have a very liberal regime and pursue an "open ports" policy — there are no restrictions on vessels of any nationality trading to and from Irish ports.

On safety aspects, it will be a primary objective of Roinn na Mara that the highest internationally accepted standards will continue to apply on board Irish ships in relation to their construction, equipment and operation and in standards of training of those on board. We are a party to all of the principal safety conventions drawn up by the International Maritime Organisation, the specialised agency of the United Nations which is responsible for safety at sea matters. Ireland is also a party to the Memorandum of Understanding on Port State Control, an agreement between 14 maritime nations of Western Europe. The parties to this agreement implement a rigorous programme of inspection of ships calling to ports to ensure adherence to the standards of internationally accepted conventions designed to achieve safety at sea and prevent oil pollution.

Notwithstanding the difficult economic circumstances, I look forward to further improvements in marine safety and search and rescue facilities in 1987. A sum of £250,000 has been earmarked for the further extension of the maritime VHF network around our coasts. Four remote control stations are already in operation linked to the manned stations at Malin Head and Valentia; two are in County Kerry and one each in Counties Donegal and Cork. In addition, my Department will be continuing their programme of re-equipping the Coast Life Saving Service, a voluntary body operated under the auspices of my Department at over 50 locations around the coast.

The 1987 Estimates mark the first Exchequer payment to the general lighthouse fund which finances the Commissioners of Irish Lights. This follows an agreement reached in 1985 between the UK and Irish authorities.

Under the Merchant Shipping Act, 1894, responsibility for the provision and maintenance of lights services around the coasts of Ireland and Britain is vested in three bodies, known as General Lighthouse Authorities: the Commissioners of Irish Lights who serve the coasts around Ireland, Trinity House who have responsibility for England and Wales and the Northern Lights Board, who are responsible for Scotland and the Isle of Man. While the facilities in the three areas are separately held and managed by the three lighthouse authorities, the whole system of lights around the coasts of Britain and Ireland is administered as a single financial unit. Expenditure is met from the central lighthouse fund which derives its income from the collection of lights dues in ports in Britain and Ireland. There is a substantial gap — £8 million in the year ended 31 March 1986 — between revenue from light dues in Ireland and expenditure by the Commissioners of Irish Lights. This arises because the elaborate system of lights demanded by the geographical situation of Ireland has not been matched by a corresponding flow of shipping traffic into Irish ports.

Following negotiations between the Irish and British authorities, it was agreed that in future a greater share of the costs incurred by the Commissioners of Irish Lights in the State will be met from sources in the State. Under the agreement, the lights dues collected at Irish ports will be supplemented as necessary by an Exchequer contribution so that total revenue from sources in the State will gradually increase from a level of 30 per cent in 1987 of CIL's expenditure in the State to reach 50 per cent by 1991. The Exchequer contribution in 1987 amounts to £1.287 million. This sum was, in fact, paid out of the Vote of the Department of Communications just prior to the establishment of Roinn na Mara.

Capital expenditure this year on the commercial harbours is expected to total about £9.5 million which is roughly the same as last year's outturn. The total amount of Exchequer assistance for those harbours, including voted and non-voted moneys, is £4.6 million, comprising £4.5 million grant and £0.1 million local loans fund financing. The sum of £1.468 million in the Vote for the Marine is in respect of the period 1 April to 31 December 1987. The balance is accounted for under the Vote for the Office of the Minister for Communications.

The new deepwater berth at Ringaskiddy in Cork Harbour which cost £10 million approximately is now complete and is capable of accommodating fully laden vessels of up to 60,000 dead weight tonnage. Grant assistance of £642,000 has been allocated this year to meet completion costs of the project. The berth is the final stage in the Cork harbour development scheme which began in 1977 and which has cost approximately £28 million. This new facility together with the planned free port at Ringaskiddy should greatly enhance the attractiveness of Cork Harbour as a location for new port related industry and will boost the efforts of Cork Harbour Commissioners and the IDA to generate development in the region.

In May 1985 the Government approved a rescue package for the Dublin Port and Docks Board which included payment of a grant of £3 million for each of the years 1985, 1986 and 1987. The 1987 instalment included in this year's allocation for harbours has already been paid. One of the board's major assets, the Custom House Docks site, was recently transferred to the Custom House Dock Development Authority, the grants paid to the board being deducted from the agreed valuation of the site. The development of that site will undoubtedly contribute towards realising, the Government's plan for national economic recovery and, indeed, I am glad to note that there has already been an increase in traffic volume through the port, and that the board's trading performance is steadily improving.

Extensive storm damage was suffered by Arklow Harbour in August last and as a result a sum of £250,000 was provided for essential repair works there. Just under £150,000 of the grant was paid in 1986 and the remainder is being made available this year. Grant assistance of £57,000 is also being provided to Tralee & Fenit Pier & Harbour Commissioners to enable repairs to the pier at Fenit to continue this year.

As Minister with responsibility for commercial harbours my aim is to channel the limited State funds at my disposal into the most productive harbour investment having regard to the financial resources of the individual harbours and the need to avoid wasteful duplication of facilities in maintaining an efficient and cost effective ports infrastructure.

I am happy to say that Roinn na Mara have satisfactorily completed removal of the remaining recoverable oil in the Kowloon Bridge wreck, thus eliminating the threat of any further oil pollution to the west Cork area as a result of this unfortunate incident. On assuming responsibility for the marine functions of the former Department of Communications, I immediately established a special task force, to survey the wreck and remove the oil. The wreck had been very badly damaged during the winter. Irish divers inspected and drilled into any tanks that could contain oil and they identified oil in three tanks which was then removed by use of a specialised Dutch salvage vessel. The owners and insurers will be pursued as soon as practicable for recovery of the costs incurred. A substantial quantity of paint was also removed. This was tested by IIRS and I am happy to say that none of this paint contained TBT. I have arranged for a review of domestic legislation covering marine safety and pollution in the light of the Kowloon Bridge affair and any legislative changes considered necessary will be introduced as soon as possible.

Roinn na Mara have, as one of their objectives, the development of a rational policy for national port development. There has been a feeling for a long time on both sides of this House that the best use is not being made of our harbours and port facilities. The Shannon estuary is one area where I believe we have failed to exploit the opportunities.

The other matter we regard as important is that of overall marine research. Our policy document outlined the need for the establishment of an institute for marine resources and fisheries research which would identify areas of research which have not been developed to date.

With regard to the sea and sea bed resources the technologies related to their exploitation——

Could I anticipate the agreement of the House for the giving of an extra minute or two to the Minister to conclude?

In order to capitalise on our marine and fisheries resources it is essential that we measure these resources, devising the most effective exploitation methods while, at the same time, ensuring the protection of the environment.

The need for a coherent policy for marine and fisheries research and technology and for adequate support structures has been fully acknowledged for some time. Under existing arrangements there are overlaps, duplications, waste of both human and financial resources. It is our intention to draw existing facilities together under a new marine and research technological institute which would not alone bring together existing organisations and people working in this area but also implement a major initiative in the whole area of marine research and development so sadly neglected. It is our intention to set up a marine institute which will have final responsibility for the development and management of marine and fisheries research and technology activities. As part of their co-ordinating function the institute will have responsibility for the operation of all the centralised facilities and equipment. They will also organise the establishment and maintenance of a comprehensive data collection storage and dissemination system.

I should like to have had more time to go into more detail on the whole mandate of Roinn na Mara and the broad thrust of the policy we see as being essential to the development, utilisation and maximum exploitation of the huge potential we have in the seas around us. The establishment of Roinn na Mara constitutes the first step in realising that potential, in charting a course for future policy and planning in that whole area, laying down under their commercial, promotional marketing division a new powerhouse which will be crucial in organising a major drive to expand to the very maximum potential jobs and revenue for the State from this resource which has remained relatively untapped to date.

I commend this Supplementary Estimate to the House.

Fish are a very important, renewable natural resource from which we, totally surrounded by water, could derive much greater benefit through the full and planned development of the proper processing of our catch. The horsepower of our fleet is capable of a far greater catch than our quota now allows even though most of our fleet itself is over ten years old. We have three applications only for new boats submitted to take advantage of the new EC structures policy which is providing £65 million for the fishing industry. In a nutshell that is the position facing us and the fishing industry as we look to the future.

In 1922 the Department of Fisheries were set up to help develop Irish sea fisheries. Though a very depressed position existed in the industry right up to the thirties — due to the loss of major export markets for herring in Central Europe and for mackerel in the United States, followed by the economic depression — the high prices for fish during the Second World War saw the beginning of a gradual recovery. In 1952 the Sea Fisheries Act established An Bord Iascaigh Mhara to assume overall responsibility for the fishing industry. This remained the position until the sixties when, An Bord Iascaigh Mhara become a development authority and withdrew from commercial involvements in the fishing industry, as laid down in a Government White Paper in 1963. This produced an immediate response, with increased confidence in investment in new vessels and increased enterprise in the processing and distributive sector of the industry.

The development programmes undertaken by An Bord Iascaigh Mhara from 1963 to 1985 made major contributions to the rapid extension of our fishing industry. These included fish landings which have increased from 25,000 tonnes to 223,500 tonnes in 1986. The corresponding increase in the value of fish catches was £1.4 million in 1963 to over £60 million in 1985. Exports have increased from £1.7 million to £103 million plus in 1985. Consumption of fish in this country has doubled in the same period. There has been a major expansion of our fleet with a State investment of over £120 million at this time. We witnessed the doubling of the number of full time and part time fishermen, a vast growth in aquaculture and mariculture and in shore processing and the value-added industry generally. Therefore, up to 1985 fishing and fish farming employed directly 13,000 people, not counting those involved in distribution and retailing, a most important contribution to the often remote coastal regions where the industry generally is located.

Major problems were encountered during the negotiations for our accession to the EC in 1973. In the end concessions were made in 1976, at the Council of Ministers meeting at The Hague, which went a long way towards helping our fishermen adapt to the Community's fisheries policy.

Indeed they did not.

They went a long way. The emergence of the common fisheries policy was a major disappointment. Even though it was finally sealed in January 1983 the agreements, the small print, were all reached in the autumn or winter of 1982. The major difficulty for us was the agreement by the then Minister, Deputy Daly — who happens to be the present Minister — to a quota of 4.6 per cent of the total allowable catch for us even though we have 25 per cent of the Community waters. This did not reflect the spirit of the Council of Ministers meeting at The Hague in 1976 and was never adequate for the catching capacity of our fleet.

While we must constantly increase our catch of non-quota species — as the Minister rightly points out — our priority must be to get a fairer slice of the total cake in relation to quota species. Unlike most of our European colleagues we are in a developing state. I urge the Minister and his Minister of State — I realise they were with the Commissioner in Europe some time in April; the Minister mentioned the fact in the course of his remarks — to ensure that the reciprocal visit of Commissioner Cunha here in July will be successful in relation to our request for an increased quota.

I put down a parliamentary question some days ago in relation to the response the Minister received on that visit. I received information from a reliable source that the Minister's reception in relation to our requested quota was less than we would have liked. I will leave it at that. I hope the Minister will get a positive response from Commissioner Cunha in relation to this issue vital to the future of our industry. I can assure the Minister I will be as co-operative and constructive on that matter as is possible. Indeed, the Minister can rest assured of the support of this side of the House in anything we can do in order to get a fairer slice of the cake when it comes to increasing our quota. Might I also say that we cannot afford to wait until 1992. I hope our European colleagues appreciate our position in that regard.

The late seventies and early eighties spelled financial disaster for our fishermen, with rampant inflation, the energy crisis and a depressed market generally for fish. With financial aid packages the fishing industry has fought back. Now the future looks brighter. We have much lower oil prices, increased prices for our fish and a rapid decrease in the rate of inflation over the past few years. The future looks better provided we are allowed to develop our fleet which can be done only if we can increase our catch.

The latest chapter on which this Government have just embarked is the establishment of Roinn na Mara and the marine research and technology institute. These deserve every chance to live up to the Fianna Fáil manifesto expectations though I warn the Minister as constructively as possible that a rose by any other name is but a rose. He catalogued in the course of his remarks the tremendous achievements over the past few years in relation to the doubling of catches, the increase in the value of fish landed and general developments in this area which happened even without the benefit of Roinn na Mara to co-ordinate and increase efficiency. I do not disagree that we could have greater co-ordination. God knows there is great room for increased efficiency in most areas in this country.

I will wait and hope that Roinn na Mara and the technology institute live up to the potential and the expectations of Fianna Fáil's manifesto. If they do they cannot but be of tremendous benefit to the industry. It would not be responsible for me, as spokesperson on the Marine, after three short months of this Government to use the occasion to be politically opportunistic to attack anything without being reasonable and letting it develop. I wait with interest the developments of the Minister in that area.

In appreciation of the long-term advantages and economic implications of respecting conservation measures generally, a consequent increase in stock levels is essential for the future. In particular, respect for the life-cycle of the salmon is essential for this most lucrative industry in order to preserve our natural fish stock balance. The previous Minister set up a salmon review group and it is hoped that commonsense and natural justice will be reflected when that group report. None of us can feel that justice is being done when we see our own fishermen being sent to jail while non-nationals using flags of convenience flout the laws just outside the territorial limit.

At present the widespread use of monofilament nets of enormous depth and miles in length is wreaking havoc with our stocks and destroying the livelihood of the estuary fishermen and the sport of the rod angler. It is destroying the future for all. Our fishery boards are so underfunded that they are no longer in a position to carry out their statutory functions which are the conservation, development and protection of inland fisheries and sea angling. I welcome the Minister's reference to an investigation into this whole area in relation to the fishery boards.

The success story of our aquaculture and mariculture industries deserves to be lauded and given all the support necessary by central Government to reach its potential. The recent threat to our valuable and rapidly expanding oyster industry from bonamia ostrea underlines how fragile the balance is between success and disaster and how important it is for the Government to have in place the necessary legislative and licensing provisions to protect the industry in relation in particular to movement, to imports, to the environmental aspects and to conservation measures generally.

The whole area of safety at sea needs urgent legislative action, bearing in mind the growing numbers involved in aquaculture and mariculture. These are usually marine biologists and general operatives with little or no experience in the handling of boats. We already had one recent tragic accident in this area. Safety measures include the overloading of boats, the wearing of lifejackets, basic training in tying knots, safety regulations for personnel and never being alone on a boat. The list is endless. Responsibility must rest with the heads of management of our fish farms but I urge immediate legislation in this area to spell out the requirements. It might be the job of the Minister for Labour to draw up this legislation but I urge the Minister for the Marine and his Minister of State to discuss what can be achieved because it is a vital aspect of an industry that has great potential and one that I hope will grow at a great rate in the years to come.

The amenity and conservation aspects of aquaculture and a response to the environmental issues and conflicts raised by the development of this most important and expanding natural resource-based industry were recently put in print by An Taisce and I commend them for their concern. They recommend the concept of a single licence to be examined by Roinn na Mara with the aim of making one agency responsible for the processing of all aspects of aquaculture. The Minister, in his speech, referred basically to the licensing and designation of areas. He said that notable success has been achieved recently on the implementation of the designation process provided for under the Fisheries Act, 1980, and that 14 areas have now been designated. He also said that licence applications for the designation areas are currently being processed and the issue of licences on a regular basis will commence in the coming weeks. I draw the Minister's attention to the An Taisce report, with which he will be familiar, to see if he could take on board any of their recommendations, particularly in relation to this aspect of the aquaculture industry, which are very worthwhile.

The Minister also referred in his speech to national port development and its importance. He rightly pointed out that successive Governments have touched on this area but little work has been done. We have all expressed our concern about this matter. May I take this point, together with the reference to the Shannon Estuary, to mean that we will shortly see again on the Order Paper the Harbours Bill? I hope that is the case because we agree with the Minister that the proper and structured development of our ports is essential and that we must protect our open ports policy and ensure we get maximum benefit for our ports, the most important part of our coastal resources.

The general development of our coastal resources has been lamentable for decades. From a sport and recreation point of view we have done little to ensure access and to create the amenities along our coastline that other similar countries have managed to do. The only development of a marina in this country recently has been in Howth harbour and yet nearly every maritime county has potential for the installation of a marina to increase the enjoyment and the recreation potential of the sea. This is an area which needs immediate attention and we should direct resources, if at all possible, to the encouragement by local groups of development in this line.

Basically we can discuss many aspects of the fishing industry but in the short time allocated to us this evening do little justice to the importance of the many topics involved. As far as I am concerned, two major problems confront us. First, we should take maximum advantage of the EC structures policy. I urge the Minister to ensure in any way possible that we are in a position to do that. He should ensure we can provide the resources needed for this end, to get maximum advantage from the £65 million this structures policy is offering the fishing industry in Europe at present. He should ensure that there will be sufficient investment in new boats so that we can have a fleet fit for the development of the industry and to increase the capacity of our catch when, I am sure, he gets an increased quota from the Commission.

We cannot always depend on the invaluable work and the excellence of the work of people like John Molloy and Dr. Pauline King in relation to the mackerel egg survey. We cannot depend on finding more fish every year. Even though we would have the same percentage it would be of our greater total allowable catch. That cannot go on, even though it is very much welcomed if it is the only vehicle we have pending the resolution to our quota problem. The excellence of that type of work and the work done by ICES, the international committee on the exploration of the seas, must be commended and recognised by us as a maritime country. The work done internationally on which we can piggyback is a tremendous advantage to us. We are not in a position to invest the enormous amount in research and technology in this area that is invested by the international groups and, therefore, it is of major advantage to us to be able to take on board the results of their work and of their research.

As I said, it would not be constructive of me at present to develop too much my views of Roinn na Mara or of the situation as outlined by the Minister. I hope there will be another occasion in the not too distant future when we can have a very constructive debate on the proposals in the Government's election manifesto and consider how perhaps they can take on board some of our views in relation to some of the issues therein.

Ar an gcéad dul síos, is mian liom tréaslú leis an Aire agus tá súil agam go mbainfidh sé tairbhe as an obair agus go n-éireoidh leis san aireacht tábhachtach a bhfuil sé ceaptha chuige anois, Roinn na Mara.

I wish the Minister and his officials every success in the new Department of the Marine. We in the Labour Party welcome the establishment of this Department and the integration of functions involved.

A central thrust of our document on the marine in 1969 was to have an integrated Department. We had a series of meetings with the then Taoiseach. To set the record straight as to the manner in which we pursued this principle I quote from the Official Report of 15 June 1982, column 11, volume 336:

Mr. Higgins asked the Taoiseach if he will seek to integrate all matters dealing with the sea in a single Ministry for Seas and Fisheries with a view to co-ordinating the development of marine-related industry and research as a matter of urgency...

That was in the mid term of my pursuit of a Department of the Marine which did not come to fruition at that stage. Even if it is almost exactly five years later, I welcome the presence of Deputy Daly, the first Minister for the Marine. I wish him success in his Department. The principle of having an integrated Department of the Marine was urged at that time because I had identified eight Departments and agencies dealing with marine affairs. I note in the Minister's speech that he discovered another and there are, in fact, nine Departments involved, I take his correction.

However, that division of functions in relation to marine matters is symptomatic of a comprehensive neglect of the sea fishing industry in Ireland for several generations. I will give one dramatic indicator of that neglect. In 1832 there were exactly ten times the number of people employed and making a living from the sea as there are today. That is a simple fact. When you look at the attitude of the Industrial Development Authority and other promotional agencies which have been trying to establish industries here, funded entirely out of public taxation from a relatively narrow band of people who pay tax, due to reasons which I can develop again on another occasion, in the period 1970-80 the IDA invested £2.8 billion in foreign enterprise; in 1981 and 1982 the IDA investment in fish processing was £1.466 million; and BIM grant-aid to processing facilities between January 1980 and May 1983 was £123,551. That tells the story of the commitment to the expansion of the job potential of the fish processing industry. There was not a commitment to it. The money was not allocated and jobs were not created. I want to say a couple of words about the crocodile tears shed about the conservation of fish stocks. Shortly after we joined the European Community, column 928, volume 85 of the Official Report of 14 December 1976 shows that we were reviewing the position of our fisheries after joining the Community. It is important for me to make the record very clear. When we entered the Community the whole question of fish stocks and the resources of the sea was literally offered up on an altar. Anything that was good for butter or beef was important but people talking about fish were asked to please belt up.

I remember at the time reviewing the whole question of fishing stocks in Europe. It was the experts' opinion and not mine that was important. Reference was made to the reports of the International Council for the Sea. These reports showed that we did not have farming of the sea or a fishing industry developed in Europe with any respect for conservation. We had the plundering of the sea. It was clear after we joined the Community that we would be stuck with a quota system based on the principle of plunder rather than the principle of farming the sea, ocean ranching, or any of the usual concepts which were there. Therefore, the people who had plundered most got the highest quotas. We began to shed tears when it was too late. Then people began to get very interested. Eleven years ago I placed in the Library Dr. Gibson's paper on stocks. Speaking in Galway in 1975 Dr. Gibson said and I quote from the Official Report of Seanad Éireann 16 December 1976, volume 85, column 934:

In the period from 1950 to 1967-68, the Atlanto-Scandinavian herring fishery was one of the largest in the world. The biology of this herring has been studied by Norwegian and Icelandic scientists to the point where its annual stock abundance was known with certainty. In conjunction with the International Council for the Exploration of the Sea, recommendations to reduce the catch level of this stock were made as long ago as 1964. However, while catches in 1966 and 1967 were still running at over 1,000,000 tons no one took the warning of the scientists seriously. In 1967, research work by ICES on the state of these stocks sounded the warning bells, not only was the stock in bad shape, it was on the verge of collapse.

Dr. Gibson continued:

Still no action to curtail fishing was taken, so that by 1970-71, the fishery was over, finished...boats returning dejectedly to Norwegian and Icelandic fishing ports with no herring. In 1973, a massive hunt of the North Atlantic between Iceland and Norway by the research vessels of many ICES nations, in the words of one Icelandic scientist, "produced one bloody herring larva".

That is the story of the destruction of fisheries and of the destruction of a species. One scientist after another commenting on it said that the structure of the fishing industry by the larger countries with whom we were joining had destroyed one species and had placed three or four others in danger. This is the group to whom we are going now. One hopes we will be able to extract a better quota from them. The whole principle upon which the quota system was established was based on the plunder of the sea. It had no conservation elements in it. It resisted all the scientific contributions towards the assessment of the state of stocks in one scientific report after another.

I remember very distinctly going up and down the coast with Deputies, some of whom are not alive now, in particular with the late Deputy Clement Coughlan who joined me on one occasion and expressed his profound worry at a meeting in Donegal about the implications for the fishing industry of our entry to the European Community. There is no doubt that we have to live among the plunderers. That is what it is because I have looked at the documentation which came from the Commission and the Community. I referred in my contribution in 1976 to a meeting I had with a Danish parliamentarian on the occasion of the visit of the Joint Committee on the Secondary Legislation of the European Communities, of which I was a member. I put it to him that if he was serious about the conservation of fishing stocks in Europe the Danish fleet should be reduced by one third or a half. He laughed at me. He said people are not serious.

Parliamentarians who do not believe in the conservation of fishing stocks internationally go on like our parliamentarians here. They talk about it but they are not willing to implement any of these proposals. They do not really mean it and they are not committed to it. That is why one species of fish after another will be destroyed in the world. The principle is that over the past 40 or 50 years the people who have made the most money from fish have been those who were neither reliant on it as a food protein source nor were they living in the coastal communities. That is why we have that inescapable fact. I had to set the record straight in that regard.

I welcome the Department of the Marine — Roinn na Mara — and the integration of functions which has taken place. I commend also the strong principle of conservation which is so important in international fishing. Our national policy is meaningless unless there are significant gains or a turn around in international conservation measures.

There are three or four issues facing the industry at present. First, there is conservation; secondly, the capital gearing of the industry, the provision of capital, to which I have referred only lightly so far as it has not figured in the large scale investment of funds. I do not want to quibble about the point but when you look at the estimates for the development side of BIM you can see that there is a reduction of £1 million in the current year in the amount of money which is allocated. I do not welcome that. There is no point in imagining that small amounts of money are of any value. The Minister is correct in emphasising the importance of developing species other than the endangered species to which I have referred.

I find it very hard to accept the statements by Bord Iascaigh Mhara and their record in the seventies when they were pushing vessels into fishing for species which were endangered. The result was that they geared up the supply of vessels while ignoring the scientific evidence which was available for anyone to read and, at the same time, failed to provide capital for the larger vessels which could have fished for species which were recognisable and which could have been developed. All this was taking place in an atmosphere which was hostile to planning. I still do not see any evidence that there is a commitment to planning in relation to the fishing industry. I do not believe very much has changed. What is lost would make one weep if one were an emotional person but because of our deep national commitment to the destruction of our resources and our failure to create jobs I am no longer emotional in relation to topics like this.

In Ireland it takes two fishermen to create one job in the processing industry while in European countries one person at sea generates 12 onshore opportunities in the fish processing industry. What is the reason for this? If we want to understand what has gone wrong we have to look at the provision of even appropriate infrastructural facilities, cold room facilities, distribution of fish and so on. Until recently there has been total confusion and ineptitude. Egotism has reigned and there has been competition of a wasteful kind between individuals and institutions. The marketing of fish should have been conducted by An Bord Iascaigh Mhara and Córas Trachtála Teoranta. The Minister might tell me that An Bord Iascaigh Mhara are now marketing with enthusiasm, but when I last spoke on this subject, they had one office in Paris. I tried to visit it once but I did not get the smell of fish from that office. What proposals are there for the provision of capital, for gearing operations in the fishing industry and for the sale of fish?

It is pathetic to look at the education and training which has been provided for young fishermen. In a survey carried out in north Mayo some years ago one out of 2,000 school children wanted to be a fisherman. That was the attitude of young people and their parents towards a life at sea. They could see it was a life full of uncertainty. It was full of danger as our folklore tells us. Anyone who lives in a coastal community can tell us about that. The heart of the problem was that one had to deal with nine agencies, and the situation has not changed remarkably. When these people went to sea conditions were very uncertain.

It is 12 years since I drew attention to the need to change the social welfare regulations to meet the needs of fishermen who were away from their place of residence and who wanted to sign on. Has that side been cleared up? What about the rights of crewmen at sea? I remember on one occasion being regarded as a Marxist because I suggested we should have a leasing system for our vessels, similar to that which exists in other countries, instead of an absolute ownership system. People regarded that as some kind of Soviet based suggestion. This would have ensured that people went to sea and used properly their vessels which were provided out of the taxpayers' purse.

I mention only these points because I have a limited amount of time but I want to end my historical retrospect with a phrase from column 946 of the Official Report for the Seanad, 14 December 1976. People are forever quoting Europeans to me. Mr. Gundelach, assistant to Pierre Lardinois described the establishment of quotas in the European Community in a sentence. He said, "We are dividing up the misery". Fishing stocks have been so badly damaged that we could now join and participate in dividing up the misery. That is the story.

I understand the Commissioner was invited here by Minister Kavanagh, and I hope he comes. It is time he came. I believe he will be courteously received, but I am not so naive as to think his visit will undo the damage which has been done by many member states, Denmark or Holland for example. Holland is catching 20 or 30 times its permitted quota of some species, landing many of them at Nigerian ports thereby totally escaping the surveillance of the Community. They are driving a coach-and-four through all the conservation regulations of the Community.

It gives me no pleasure to say that last weekend I read in my local newspaper a quarter page advertisement looking for men and women to work skinning and filleting fish on Norwegian factory ships. No experience was required. People could be hired to work there. That is the pathetic situation at present. We are continually giving ourselves these needles that we are wonderful, I am sure we are, but we will go down in history as an island people with all the resources of the sea, the possibilities of farming and developing the fruits of the sea as well as the opportunities of providing jobs and of being responsible, with other countries, in looking after the sea while there will be nothing on our record but a long, pathetic and arid approach towards this resource.

I want to give an example which is futuristic. I notice that people have taken on the fashion, as they usually do ten years afterwards, of saying there is a wonderful future in aquaculture. I am glad there is. Of course there is a future in aquaculture but we must begin at the beginning. May I raise this issue by making a list? For example, the constitutional issue as to the ownership of the coastline is undecided, even though that issue was raised 20 years ago. Who will go down to the sea to put out ramps and so on? These points are not answered by the designation orders. There could be a row about the coastline that would make the land war look like a polite picnic. Now, there is a combination of different Departments involved under one ministry. Who is to train people? I have seen the most unseemly rows between An Bord Iascaigh Mhara and other agencies as to who should claim the credit for a pathetic little bit of paper which somebody got as a diploma for having completed a fish farming course. If that is our attitude in the eighties, God help us.

I invite the Minister to put himself in the position I did some weeks ago when I met people living along the coastline of the Gaeltacht in Connemara. They said there were only a few of them living there and that they had been involved in the sea for a long time. Their boats are small but they want to get involved in aquaculture. What does the Minister tell them? The county development officer will tell them how to set up a co-operative. He will then tell them to get someone to visit from An Bord Iascaigh Mhara. He will tell them to get somebody from Roinn na Gaeltachta. Then someone will write a letter to the Department of Transport and Power and so on. Now they will be able to write to Roinn na Mhara, but the people are still not involved in aquaculture. They do not need a marine scientist. What they need is a marine technologist, someone who will be able to go out in waders and show them how to put a raft together, and how to look after mussels and so on. That is what they need. It is a pathetic reflection on all the agencies involved that there are not thousands more people involved in this industry. It is a pathetic reflection on so many Governments that they did not straighten out the constitutional issues and that only now are some of the administrative issues being straightened out.

I offer the Minister my condolences on the pathetic allocation he got in the Estimates for his Department. Obviously the coming year will be spent entirely on administrative reorganisation. There will not be much development or many jobs created in a direct or indirect way. I wish more money were available for him. I do not want to quibble as to who decided to abolish the central fisheries board. It was not decided by Minister Kavanagh because I was in correspondence with him at the time and he assured me that this would not happen, and I am willing to accept that.

I want to say something which is very important in relation to the Minister and I hope the Department of Defence will listen to him as the livelihood of people is involved. There have been several fishing incidents in the Irish Sea where fishing vessels have been dragged backwards, lives put in danger and so on. It is well known that the Irish Sea is a nuclear corridor used by submarines of both major super powers. Is there not a very strong case for Roinn na Mara to do something imaginative, even at this late stage, such as patrolling the sea for information which is a low cost marine operation, and offering that information to other nations who are anxious if they cannot prevent these super powers from using the Irish Sea to share the information? Those nations are anxious to have some of the great waterways of the world in some way nuclear free eventually. For example, we can have sonic monitoring and report the presence and movement of submarines. A number of other countries in the same position have carried out such monitoring. We need to have a clear policy in regard to the naval sector and there is a need to publish a document in regard to the catching sector. We have lost most of the jobs in processing and our marketing needs to be improved. A maritime research agency should be established at UCG in Galway. We should take on the EC in a bolder manner in regard to quotas and research.

With regard to infrastructure, there is no point in saying we will have a good sea fishing industry unless we have adequate roads, ports and electricity supply. County councils are under-financed to provide the infrastructure. I have listed a number of essential requirements for aquaculture if we are to create any jobs. I should like to urge the Minister to set up an inter-departmental group to try to make progress on the elimination of pollution so that we can maintain the quality of water here, one of our finest assets. I wish the Minister well and I hope that in the years to come the Taoiseach, who in words is committed to the sea, allocates some money to the new Department.

I should like to preface my remarks by publicly congratulating the Minister, Deputy Daly, and his Minister of State, Deputy Gallagher, on their success in dealing with the Kowloon Bridge wreckage off the coast of west Cork. That wreckage caused untold damage while the Coalition were in power. I am aware of the great depth of feeling among the people of the south-west region regarding the utter neglect and absolute foolhardiness of the outgoing administration in relation to their performance in regard to the Kowloon Bridge affair. We should congratulate the Minister on the speedy action he took.

Environmentalists and those involved in the fishing industry should congratulate the Minister on his work. Deputy Daly took over as Minister for the Marine at one of the most crucial periods in the history of our fishing industry. It has taken more than 60 years for people to realise that the fishing industry can no longer be ignored and that it represents hope for the future. I agree with Deputy Higgins that the industry deserves a tremendous amount of respect, thought, co-ordination and imagination. The industry has been ignored and it is on its knees.

The Government have recognised the importance of the industry. In establishing a new Department of the Marine they have indicated to fishermen, and those involved in the fishing industry, that they are prepared to face up to the problems being experienced by the industry. The infrastructure in the south-west is to a large extent in a shambles, and it has been for some time. Some of the finest harbours in western Europe are almost falling into the sea. I am referring to harbours in the vicinity of Valentia. We cannot have a viable fishing industry without the infrastructure and in many instances that has been ignored. Accordingly, the industry has been allowed to fall into decline.

People living in south-west Kerry told me that in the forties the industry was more buoyant than it is today. In Valentia harbour young women put salt in the fish in barrels and exported them but that does not happen today. At one time people thought that what had happened to our industry was that the fish had got away but we know that the fish were taken by foreign countries with larger and more developed fleets. The Irish fishing grounds, a resource for all our people, have been plundered. I am not saying that is not continuing; if we are to be honest we must accept that it is. We must ask ourselves if we are prepared to take on other countries that have larger fleets and say to them, "thus far and no further".

I have no doubt that the Minister in representing Ireland at the EC will advise other member states that we are no longer willing to tolerate the infiltration of what is one of our most important resources. We will have to tell other member states we will not tolerate this at a time of great monetary difficulties here, at a time when public expenditure had to be cut to provide the fundamental base on which we can provide jobs for our young people, and at a time when many of our young people are being forced to emigrate.

It is difficult to understand why in an island nation after 60 years we are creating about 1.25 jobs on shore to every one at sea while countries like Norway can provide six or seven jobs on shore to every one at sea. That is an indication that in the past the direction was not all that it might have been. It shows the industry has been badly treated, the understatement of the year. Is there any reason why an island nation should continuously import processed fish products? Why should we import John West, Captain Birds Eye and the other products that are being sold in our supermarkets while the resources of our country are ignored? Why does nobody ever ask why we are not exporting our fish instead of importing fish products? I urge the Minister to consider setting up a processing industry so that justice will be done. It is necessary, in the light of recent trends in the industry, for far greater diversification and for Irish fleets to fish for new species in order to build up a sufficient quota because it must be anticipated there will be a quota for these species later on.

Rumours have abounded along the south-west coast that our fishermen's attempts to diversify have at times been scuttled or interfered with by foreign boats operating off our shores. This country can no longer accept that. In the same period when Scottish yards had a booming boat building industry, the 700 workers who were employed in the same industry here some years ago have been reduced to about 30 workers which is an incredible indictment of the approach of the previous Government to the fishing industry. That cannot, and should not, be forgotten. The development of the Irish fleet is now a matter of extreme importance; 95 per cent of our fishing fleet was built for a period and a type of fishing which is now virtually extinct.

One shining example of the fishing industry is in Killybegs, in the constituency of the Minister of State, and the rest of the industry must take its lead from that kind of innovation and imagination. We are too small to continue to ignore the industry. I know that throughout the length and breadth of the country, particularly in the fishing industry, the appointment of Deputy Daly as Minister for the Marine was greatly welcomed. There is considerable confidence in his integrity and ability to deal with the problems facing the industry at this crucial period. In that respect, it is clearly important that this country should become seriously involved in the aquaculture industry which should be treated with the importance and recognition it deserves as a means of creating employment.

One of the major reasons for the high emigration rate in the west was that the fishing industry did not receive the treatment it so richly deserved. Emigration occurred at an alarming rate over the past four years and, at the same time, the Danes, the Spaniards and God knows who else blatantly fished in Irish waters. No country in the free world could accept that kind of treatment. Our young people in the west deserved better than that from the previous Government. The Minister and the Government must make a conscious effort to prevent the rape of the waters which, under our Constitution and by international agreement, form part of the State. There was a pessimism in the industry which can now be eliminated. With an injection of confidence in the industry, with a clear statement that this country at European Community level is no longer willing to allow its trading partners to infiltrate its waters to take its resources, will come a new-found confidence among our fishermen and the industry.

I know the Minister will consider these points and that he will act to protect Irish waters for our fishermen, a duty which was ignored by the previous Government. The formation of the Department of the Marine and the appointment of the Minister was an important first step in instilling confidence in the industry. He has started off tremendously well with his treatment of the Kowloon Bridge. He has shown his commitment to the industry and the industry is willing to respond.

There is a general realisation of the importance of the fishing industry to our economy, particularly to the county and constituency represented by the Minister of State and myself. A few figures will indicate the importance of the industry to the economy when one considers that a total of 13,000 people are employed in it. The value of our fishing exports during 1985 was in excess of £100 million. If we are to further develop the industry to provide much needed employment for our young people and to stem the tide of emigration, especially from the west, two conditions are necessary. We must have an adequate quota of fish and the capacity to catch it. One of the greatest handicaps the fishing industry has at present and one of the greatest constraints on its development is the low quota to which we are subject. A perfect illustration of this difficulty exists in Killybegs which depends to a great extent on the mackerel catch. We are subject to an 80,000 tonne quota and already the 1987 quota is almost exhausted as 73,000 tonnes have already been caught. For the remainder of 1987 we will be allowed to catch 7,000 tonnes and the mackerel fishing fleet have the capacity to land that tonnage in a day's fishing. That is an indication of the seriousness of the position.

There could be anything up to 1,000 people employed in Killybegs at present if we had an adequate quota. I realise the Minister and the Minister of State have already visited Brussels and discussed this serious problem with the Commissioner and I understand he will visit this country in the near future, probably next month. I hope he will have an opportunity of going to Killybegs to see the facilities and realise how important it is that the quota be increased without further delay.

One also needs the capacity to catch the fish and to bring the catch ashore. I would like the Minister in his reply to this debate this evening to let us know how the purchase of new vessels and repairs etc. to the fishing fleet are to be financed. In the past BIM were empowered to give grants of up to 25 per cent towards the purchase of new vessels and the purchase of new parts and equipment and I would like to know whether they are still in a position to do so? I would also like to know if there is any truth in the rumour that this figure is to be reduced to 10 per cent? If it is true, it will be a retrograde step in the development of this great natural resource.

Fishing ports along our coasts need to be developed. In my own county there are a number of important ports which are well known to the Minister and the Minister of State. Killybegs is probably the most important fishing port in the country but its development has been hindered by a number of constraints, including an inadequate water supply. This is primarily a matter for the Department of the Environment but I believe the Minister for the Marine should apply pressure on that Department to ensure that an adequate clean water supply is available in Killybegs. This would enable further development to take place in the fish processing industry in the area. At present work is being undertaken on the long sought after synchro-lift and this will be of great benefit to the fishermen who frequent the port as well as to the industry itself.

Another very important harbour in Donegal is Burtonport and this is in a sad state at present. A number of developments are envisaged for Burtonport and these include the dredging and extension of the harbour. These developments have been promised for the past ten or 12 years and it is a source of disappointment that this dredging will not be undertaken in 1987. From a reply to a recent question in this House I understand that this work has been postponed until 1988 or later. Last weekend there was a clear illustration of the necessity for this dredging to be carried out. Not only is Burtonport used by the fishing fleet but it is also used by companies in the nearby industrial estate at Gweedore in the importing of raw materials. Last weekend a cargo ship from a continental country carrying steel for one of the factories in the industrial estate ran aground on one of the sand banks near the harbour and lay there for over 24 hours. That is an illustration of the necessity for the dredging of the harbour. As I said, the port is used by companies in industrial estates in the importing of raw materials and it is the port from which the Aranmore ferry sails. I hope the Minister will use whatever power he has to ensure that this work is undertaken without further delay.

Another harbour in Donegal where we thought work would be under way by now is Portnablagh which is used extensively by salmon fishermen. An allocation was made available last year to carry out much needed work but I am not sure what the present position is. Perhaps in his reply the Minister will let us know the exact position and whether we can expect work to commence on the port this year. Bunbeg harbour comes under the responsibility of the Department of the Gaeltacht and I understand that funds were made available in the Estimates for work to be carried out this year. Perhaps the Minister would give an indication as to when the third stage of the development plan for the harbour will get under way. Port Inver is used by both salmon and herring fishermen and perhaps the Minister can tell us if any development will take place in this port or at Cladach na gCaorach in Kilcar.

Fish processing has great potential for job creation. A fact often cited is that some continental countries have seven or eight jobs ashore for every one at sea. The ratio in this country is not so favourable. We must endeavour to create far more employment in this industry. The Minister is on record as stating that it is his wish to concentrate on this sector of the industry and he also mentioned the fact that we import £7 million worth of fish fingers each year. It is disgraceful if that is correct and the sooner that position is rectified the better. I hope the Minister will be successful in his efforts. However, in our efforts to replace these imports with home produced products we will have to compete with long established firms and I suggest and advocate that it is essential that a proper programme of research and development is first carried out to see whether there will be a constant supply of fish available before we invest in the industry and every effort should be made to develop it.

When we speak of the fishing industry in this country we always refer to some of the recent tragedies which have occurred around our coasts. In my own county of Donegal there were a number of tragic accidents over the past number of years and all possible safety and rescue measures should be put in place. It is very disturbing that our lighthouses are now in the process of being automated. At present only 18 or 19 of our lighthouses are being manned but within the next five years every lighthouse around our coasts will go automatic and that is a retrograde step. Unlike the UK and other continental countries we do not have a coast-guard service. It is vital that someone maintains a watch and the lighthouse keepers have provided such a service down through the years. In 1986 they were responsible for alerting the safety services over 200 times. I understand that this programme of automation is being reassessed at Government level and I implore the Minister and the Government to have second thoughts as it will be a sad day if this service is allowed to come to an end within the next few years.

When people are in difficulty at sea, time is always of crucial importance. If you want to mount a rescue, time is important. We are in the process of purchasing helicopters that can fly by night as well as by day. I have advocated before and do again tonight that one of these helicopters should be based at Finner in Donegal. All the facilities are there for refuelling and so on. There is perfect safety there, perfect security. I ask that serious consideration be given to this. When a vessel gets into difficulty at sea, at present helicopters have to fly from Baldonnel, or Shannon, or elsewhere and five, ten or 15 minutes can be of crucial importance; it can just make the difference between life and death. I raised this subject in the House a number of weeks ago and the Minister for Defence who is responsible for the purchase of these helicopters said he would have another look at the suggestion. I hope the Minister for the Marine and the Minister of State will impress on that Minister the importance of having the west coast and particularly the north west coast patrolled by one of these helicopters. Five are being purchased and it is not too much to ask to have one based in that area.

I wish the Minister and the Minister of State well in the new Department of the Marine. They will ultimately be judged on how they handle negotiations in Europe and whether they will succeed in increasing the fish quota. If they do not, we will be handicapped and hampered and there will be no proper development or scope for development in that important industry.

No matter what Department are there or by what name they are called, if they have not got the money or the resources to put into the industry, we are only window-dressing. There are many people working in the industry but the potential is much greater and the potential is concentrated in the west of Ireland where there are very few other industries. Fishing is a natural resource right along the coast, but particularly in the west. The best fishing grounds are there. Any development would be of immense benefit to the people of the west, to the people of Donegal in general and of south west Donegal particularly.

Ba mhaith liom cúpla focal a rá faoi thábhacht na hiascaireachta i gcomhthéacs iarthar na hÉireann agus go speisialta ó thaobh na Gaeltachta de. Tá rudaí ag tarlú san iascaireacht atá tábhachtach agus sílim go mbeidh páirt anmhór ag Roinn na Mara san fhorbairt seo sna blianta atá romhainn. Bíonn daoine ag caitheamh anuas ar Rialtais nach ndéanann siad a gcion féin maidir le hiascaireacht a chur chun cinn ach ní shílim go bhfuil an locht ar Rialtais. Tá cuid mhaith den locht ar mhuintir na tíre iad féin thart faoin chósta mar gur neartaigh siad na deacrachtaí a bhí ag baint le hiascaireacht san am atá caite, an cruatan a bhí ann. Thóg sé scaitheamh maith do dhaoine a fháil amach go raibh buntáistí san iascaireacht agus thóg sé scaitheamh maith forbairt cheart a dhéanamh air.

San am i láthair tá dearcadh nua le feiceáil. Caithfimid báid mhóra a fháil, báid a bheas in ann dul amach agus coimhlint leis na náisúin eile san EC. Tá sé in am dúinn réiteach níos fearr a fháil do hiascairí na tíre seo san Chomhphobal. Nuair a bhí an t-iar-Thaoiseach in a Aire i 1975 agus é ag plé le cúrsaí na hEorpa ag an am, rinneadh socruithe — an Hague Agreement mar a tugadh air — agus bhí ceart againn dúbailt ar an méid iascaireachta a bhí á dhéanamh againn ag an am sin. Ach ní raibh san réiteach sin ach dúbailt ar tada. Ní raibh aon iascaireacht ar siúl anseo ag an am sin. Ná ní raibh aon fhorbairt á déanamh. Ní raibh againn ach báid bheaga agus ní bhfuaireamar tada.

Is cuimhin liom i ndíospóireacht ar an raidio leis an Aire sin ag an am — agus níl mé ag caitheamh anuas air; b'fhéidir gur shíl sé go raibh sé ag déanamh a chion féin — dúirt mé go n-inseodh an saol agus i gcaitheamh ama go mbeadh a fhios aige na buntáistí a bhí le fáil, agus tá sé faighte amach anois againn nach bhfuil aon bhuntáistí againn. Tá na hiascairí ceaptha i gcaoi nach dtig leo ach oiread áirithe éisc a bhaint amach agus is féidir leis na báid mhóra an scair eisc atá ag dul dúinne a thógáil amach i gceann cúpla mí. Níl sé sin ag tabhairt cothrom na féinne dúinne agus sílim nár sheas an EC linne mar Stát a bhí ag tosnú ar fhorbairt na hiascaireachta agus go bhfuil siad san ag iarraidh an t-am ar fad go mbeadh an chuid is fearr de na buntáistí acusan mar bhí forbairt déanta acusan i bhfad rómhainne. Tá sé an-tábhachtach go bhféachfaimis le dul chun cinn níos fearr a dhéanamh maidir le ceart a fháil do na hiascairí.

Maidir le mo Roinn féin, Roinn na Gaeltachta, tá suim ar leith againn sa chaoi a bhfuil cúrsaí iascaireachta ag dul ar aghaidh. Tá Údarás na Gaeltachta ag cur béime an fhorbairt ár n-achmhainní nádurtha. Nuair a fheicimid, cuir i gcás, an fhorbairt atá á déanamh ar fheilméireacht éisc, beidh tabhacht ansin do na Gaeltachtaí sna blianta atá rómhainn. Beidh daoine nach gnáth iascairí iad ag plé le feilméireacht éisc agus rudaí mar sin. Déanaim comhghairdeas le hÚdarás na Gaeltachta a bhí in a gceannródaithe sa tír seo ar an fhorbairt sin agus a bhfuil an-obair déanta acu le feilméireacht éisc a chur chun cinn agus sa todhchaí beidh an-tábhacht ar fad ag baint leis an obair seo. Ó tharla go mbeidh Roinn na Mara anois ag togáil páirt faoi leith sna cúrsaí seo, tá mé cinnte go dtabharfaidh siad aitheantas do Údarás na Gaeltachta san fhorbairt seo.

Tá casaoid beag amháin agam maidir leis na cúrsaí seo. Sílim go bhfuil an Roinn Iascaigh an-mhall ag déanamh cinneadh ar cheadúnais a thabhairt do hiascairí thart ar an gcósta le haghaidh feilméireacht éisc a dhéanamh in a n-áiteacha féin. Ní bhíonn morán moille ar na comhlachtaí móra de réir cosúlachta ach tá clamhsán ag gnáth dhaoine thart faoin chósta a bhfuil suim acu san fhorbairt seo nach bhfaigheann siad morán éisteachta mar ba cheart dóibh maidir leis na ceadúnais seo. Ba mhaith liom go rachadh mo chairde anseo isteach sa scéal agus go dtabharfadh siad cluas níos fearr do na hiascairí atá ag iarraidh leanúint ar aghaidh le feilméireacht éisc.

Tá cuid de na comharchumainn coinnithe siar i ngeall ar go bhfuil an Roinn cineál mall ag tabhairt amach na gceadúnas seo. Tá a fhios agam go bhfuil siad casta, go minic go bhfuil ceist dlí ann, go dteastaíonn uathu bheith cinnte go bhfuil chuile shórt réitithe i gceart agus nach mbeadh aon daoine ag teacht aniar orthu arís mar gheall ar cheadúnais a thabhairt amach go héagórach. Ach san am céanna sílim go bhféadfaí dul ar aghaidh i bhfad níos tapúla leis na ceadúnais a thabhairt amach.

Tá me cinnte go dtuigeann chuile pháirtí anseo an tábhacht atá leis an iascaireacht agus go bhfuil poist le fáil ní amháin ón ár n-iascaireacht féin ach as an phróiseáil agus as na cúrsaí seo ar fad. Ba cheart dúinn cur le chéile agus féachaint le forbairt cheart a dhéanamh air. Nuair a fheicimid comhlachtaí móra a bhí ag plé le cúrsaí eile sásta a gcuid airgid a chur san fhorbairt seo i láthair na huaire — níl sé sin á dhéanamh gan na cúrsaí a bheith fiosraithe i gceart acu — tugann sé léargas dúinn ar an dul chun cinn gur féidir a dhéanamh.

Ba cheart dúinn bheith bródúil as cuid d'ár n-iascairí féin atá ag tabhairt faoi báid mhóra a fháil. Nuair atá daoine sásta thart ar £12 mhilliún a chaitheamh ar na báid seo, is cosúil go bhfuil an-mhuinín astu féin agus tá misneach acu. San am atá i láthair nuair atá poist gann agus nuair atá díobháil oibre ar mhuintir na tíre, agus ar mhuintir an iarthair, tá ár mbuíochas ag dul dóibh i ngeall ar an misneach atá acu leis na báid mhóra seo a fháil. Tá súil agam go leanfaidh iascairí eile an dea-shampla atá á thabhairt acu agus go bhfeicfimid cabhlach iascaigh againn a bheidh inchurtha le haon náisiún eile san Eoraip agus go mbeidh saibhreas nach raibh againn cheana le fáil ón iascaireacht agus go mbeidh poist atá ag teastáil go géar le fáil ar muir agus ar tír.

I am pleased to have the opportunity to contribute to this debate on the Marine Estimate. I hope the Minister will achieve a considerable amount of progress in his portfolio. I do not think there is any other Ministry about which I have heard such pious platitudes during my 14 years in the Houses of the Oireachtas and about which so little has been done to fulfil those platitudes. Deputies and Senators cry about the neglect of the sea fisheries and tell us what should be done. There has not been a great deal done in regard to sea fisheries in modern times. There is a great deal to be done and I wish the Minister every good fortune in his efforts to improve our present lamentable situation. I am not sure that a change in the name of the ministry will bring about a change in the fortunes of the industry. Calling it the Ministry for the Marine may sound attractive but I will wait and judge on the results that are obtained at the end of the day.

I am not too enamoured of the number of review groups which have been set up, some of which were set up during the lifetime of the last Government and some set up under this Government. So far as I am aware there are five review groups at present reviewing matters within the Department of the Marine: a salmon review group, a review group examining the fishery boards, a review group on the aquaculture development programme, a review group looking at the Bord Iascaigh Mhara marine credit plan and a review group on legislation governing marine safety and pollution. I am open to contradiction but there appears to be that considerable number of review groups. Perhaps the Minister will review all the review groups or else have the Minister for Defence to review them with a fanfare of trumpets. We all know that review groups are an excuse most often not to do anything: they postpone the evil day and pass the problem on to somebody else. That may well be true of one administration as of another. I would like to know, if there are that number of review groups, when they will report and what is their specific function.

One of those review groups was set by your predecessor.

I said that some of the review groups may have originated under the previous Government and some under this Government.

One of the areas which creates tremendous difficulties at this time of the year is the very emotional issue of salmon fishing. The Minister has listed among his priorities the question of angling in terms of attracting tourists. I agree fully that that is as it should be. Angling is a segment of the tourist industry which has suffered considerably during the past 20 years. This has been due partly to illegal fishing which has decimated supplies of fish from time to time though this is a questionable issue because salmon seem to come back in huge numbers having appeared to be on the point of elimination. This often makes me wonder if intensive fishing can strengthen the species.

There has been a drop in real terms in the number of tourists coming to Ireland. I imagine that this is due principally to the troubles in Northern Ireland. I say this because during the fifties and sixties British tourists were the backbone of the Irish tourist industry and they were particularly keen on angling as an activity.

The most important thing so far as the tourists and the rod anglers are concerned is that the fish and in particular, the spawning salmon, get up river. That is the essence of the angling segment of the tourist industry. Fish must get up river. As legislators we must be imaginative, innovative and courageous enough to face up to the problems that exist and have existed for years.

There is no doubt but that the drift netting at sea is causing immense difficulties for river anglers. We seem to forget that there are people besides anglers who suffer as a result of drift netting. These are the net fishermen who fish with draught net licences and also with snap net licences in the estuaries and rivers. These people have suffered in the last 20 years due to extensive netting at sea where one can get as much as three or five miles of nets or a series of three to five miles of nets blocking whole harbour estuaries, even ones as big as the Shannon Estuary. That must be stopped and the fish must be allowed up the river. In advance of the review group report I suggest that we will not eliminate this illegal fishing with the present law enforcement agencies at our disposal. The Irish Navy together with the Garda Síochána and the fisheries protection officers have done a wonderful job in recent years. They have been assaulted and abused by unscrupulous poachers. When big money is at stake people will use any means to get their hands on it. It is not unusual for people to make £10,000 or £15,000 in one week when there is a good run of salmon. They can get those sums because they use incredible amounts of net in an illegal manner.

Surely the Deputy does not believe that anybody could fish with five miles of nets. That is ridiculous.

With trawlers it is possible. It is going on in places like the Shannon estuary.

It just could not be done.

It can be done with a whole series of nets. The angling potential of this country is being seriously damaged. We are having continuous confrontation between the law enforcement agencies and the drift netters. A number of illegal fishermen have gone to prison, some from my own constituency. A stage has been reached where we will have to agree to compromise. We should give serious consideration to allowing the use of a limited amount of monofilament net. The best people to enforce a discipline on fishermen are fishermen. If there were a compromise the fishing communities would impose their own discipline. At the moment no discipline is imposed. The situation is deplorable and it should not be allowed to continue. I would like to think that the law enforcement agencies could deal with the problem but in recent years experience has shown that it is extremely difficult if not impossible for them. We should make some effort to work out an experimental compromise on a limited time basis to see if we could sanction the use of a small amount of monofilament netting together with the traditional nylon nets. A fisherman fishing with a legal amount of net cannot make a living. That is a sad commentary on the system. I know some who have tried consistently and rather than break the law have abandoned fishing. The Minister might take a courageous decision to experiment for one season with my suggestion. If the experiment did not succeed we could return to the existing situation. We should put the onus on the fishermen to see that discipline is imposed. If we had a limited amount of nylon net and monofilament net it would give fish a chance to get up river and we would have a reasonable amount of fish spawning which would give the angling industry a shot in the arm. My suggestion is worth considering.

I am a bit confused by the figures in the Minister's speech. The Minister referred to the quantity of fish caught in 1986 at 223,415 tonnes, valued at £64 million excluding salmon. How does that compare with the figure given which says that the total value of our exports is estimated at £102 million? Does the £102 million include or exclude salmon? Even if that does not include salmon, if the catch is worth £64 million and the export value is £102 million, it is a disgracefully low added value content. I am sure the figure to which we should aspire should be 10 times the £64 million, and not just a 40 per cent increase. Those figures are striking and they are alarming.

In relation to fish farming it is hoped this year to produce 1.2 tonnes of cultivated salmon and by 1992 it is hoped to produce 10,000 tonnes. If we achieve that target we will have made tremendous progress. The Norwegians have done it and they are years ahead of us. They are very impressed with the growth rate of salmon in our waters and they see tremendous potential here for salmon fish farming.

We have not exploited other forms of fish farming to the full. It is really a matter of education. Universities could be of greater assistance in this regard. Perhaps the universities could get assistance from the Government and special moneys from the EC to provide more post graduate courses to encourage people to maximise their earning from fish farming. Dungarvan Harbour, in my own area was never thought of in relation to mariculture but recent experiments have shown that it is ideal for clams, oysters and mussels on a commercial scale. There must be hundreds of harbours around the coast suitable for this. It is basically a matter of education. If experimentation showed that the harbours were fit for that type of fish farming the investment would follow, whether native or foreign.

As the Minister said, white fish are the sheet anchor of the fishing industry here. The figures can get blurred by the fact that in our total catch of 223,000 tonnes we include fish like horse mackerel and whiting. The bulk catching of these species of fish blurs the whole issue. We should break up that figure and show how much white fish is being caught, how much salmon is being caught and how much bulk fish such as blue whiting and horse mackerel is being caught. We need those figures as the global figures do not tell the true story. The Minister should break down the figures in metric tonnes and in terms of money and in terms of value added and export earnings.

Not all fish enterprises are encouraged as they should be. One item referred to in the Minister's statement as creating a buoyant market and earning money in exports is herring roe which is a relatively new product. I want to give a graphical demonstration. In my area in the Ring Gaeltacht a factory which operated last winter employed 200 people in extracting roe from herrings and exporting that roe to Japan. The company in question, CPR, applied for a FEOGA grant to expand their operation so that they could employ 400 people but I believe they are having considerable difficulty in getting a FEOGA grant. I would like the Minister to take to heart that vivid example of what can be achieved in the fish processing industry and see if he can help a company like that. They have already provided 200 jobs that are seasonal of course and they feel these jobs could be all the year round if they had proper premises. They can immediately expand the workforce to 400 but there is some doubt as to whether they are entitled to a FEOGA grant.

Another point in regard to white fish is fishing by the Spanish fleet off the south-west of Ireland, primarily for hake. We read reports that are rather sensational, although I have no doubt they contain a great deal of truth and perhaps are totally true, about boats being rammed by Spanish operated vessels. The whole matter is quite unsavoury. I do not know whether the Minister has protested to his Spanish counterpart, the Spanish Minister for Fisheries. This type of activity is not good enough. The Spaniards, acting illegally and perhaps criminally in some cases, can teach us a lesson about what we should be doing. They catch huge quantities particularly of hake in prime condition because the method of fishing is by long lining. This is a rather tedious form of fishing involving a geat deal of manpower and work but it produces the fish in prime condition and it is a very lucrative operation.

If others can come 1,000 miles to fish in our fishing grounds off the south-west of Ireland, surely it is a poor reflection on us that we cannot operate a similar enterprise maybe 50 or 100 miles off our coast. At times it almost makes one feel that the major fishing development at Castletownbere was constructed for the benefit of the Spanish. We are not getting back the potential that that investment deserves. We have a massive investment in Dunmore East, Howth, Killybegs, Castletownbere and Ross a'Mhíl. We should be getting back the investment we put into those five harbours but in some cases we are not doing so. The Spanish and the French seem to be making better use of those facilities than we are making.

Again, I wish the Minister the best of good fortune in his portfolio. He has tremendous potential for developing our sea fisheries. That will take a little ingenuity and a great deal of courage especially in salmon fishing because that is a troublesome area, but he should change the rules if only on a temporary basis.

Due to the limited time available I propose to confine my remarks to sea fisheries, the area for which I am primarily responsible. I have had the pleasure of meeting a number of the main national organisations representing the industry, and the Minister and I hope to meet with the others during the summer and at that time we hope also to visit a number of our ports.

The Minister referred to our meeting with the EC Commissioner for Fisheries some weeks ago when the problem of quotas was dealt with. As he indicated, we raised a number of other issues, for example the difficulties regarding the herring market. This has been a matter of great concern for us for some time. The Commissioner assured us he is aware of the problem, that a special working group has been set up by the Commission and it is expected that its report will be available before the end of the year. We are concerned at the high level of imports from third countries of herring in particular and we raised this matter also. Herring imports into the EC last year were an alarming 120,000 tonnes: only 26 per cent of those imports attracted some duty while herrings in the EC are going to producer organisations. This must contribute to the deflated prices of our herrings. We are aware of the problem and we will do our utmost to ensure it will be resolved. We pointed out to the Commissioner the social and regional implications in regard to provision of jobs along the coasts where there is no alternative employment.

Despite these difficulties which the fishing industry has faced in recent years, there are signs of a marked recovery in the profitability of the fleet. The best indicator of recent trends is the relationship between fish and fuel oil prices. Fuel oil can account for between 30 and 60 per cent of total operating costs depending on the age and size of the boat, the fishing method and the type of engine. The average price of oil fell by one third between 1985 and 1986, and this was a big factor. White fish prices increased during the same period by some 16 per cent which represents a healthy relationship in contrast to the cost price squeeze which has bedevilled the fleet for far too long.

The interest of our fishermen in purchasing new fishing vessels and having their vessels refurbished, modernised and lengthened is encouraging. Their commitment is an accurate barometer for the future. Now we must encourage greater emphasis on white fish as the industry suffers due to the lack of continuity of supply. With that continuity the processors will always react to changing circumstances. They are only too anxious to add value, provided they can obtain adequate, continuous supplied of white fish at realistic prices.

Figures have been bandied about here tonight from 1:8 to 1:12 in regard to the number of jobs on shore as against the number at sea. That is not a reflection on the Department; it is a reflection on the industry and on behalf of the industry I refute the allegation. There was a suggestion of landed fish valued at £60 million realising only £100 million when exported. The reference was to mackerel which we are exporting. That is precisely the way they want it in Europe and in Africa. Fresh fish on the market is exactly what the customer wants. Lobsters, for instance, are wanted fresh because that is when they are at peak value. If we are to add value then it must be in white fish and the jobs must be created there.

We will strive towards substitution for the many imports not in the area of mackerel and herring but in white fish generally. I refute any indication that the industry is not reacting to the circumstances. The year 1986 witnessed mixed fortunes for the industry. Exports remained static at the figure mentioned of some £102 million. Currency exchange rates exerted a strong influence on export returns. Exports to the dollar trading areas such as west Africa and Egypt were affected adversely. On the positive side the 8 per cent devaluation of the Irish £ within the EMS resulted in higher returns to continental destinations. Not surprisingly, EC countries increased their share of total Irish fish exports from 68 per cent in 1985 to 79 per cent in 1986, the balance going to third countries falling from 32 per cent to 21 per cent during those years.

May I interrupt to advise that technically I should now be calling on the Minister to conclude? It is a matter for him, if he so wishes, to cede a minute or two to the Minister of State but I must get his permission to do so.

The Minister of State may have five minutes.

The Minister of State is taking an extra five minutes. Is that the position?

Yes. During the year An Bord Iascaigh Mhara intensified their programme to promote sales of seafood on home and export markets in co-operation with the industry. As the Minister has already indicated, the Government decided that responsibility for fish export marketing should be returned to An Bord Iascaigh Mhara, a wise decision much applauded by the industry.

We propose to take up with RTE the question of the resumption of the fish-related programme on RTE, the termination of which programme had adverse effects on consumption of fish at home. We shall pursue that matter.

The Minister referred to the non-quota species. I should like to refer briefly to scad or horse mackerel, as they are known, and blue whiting, in respect of which there is a total allowable catch. However, as yet no quota has been agreed. It is important that we build up our historical performance in relation to these species pending the fixing of quotas. I am glad to say that already progress has been made in that direction. The addition of the four large vessels referred to will improve our position even further.

In relation to harbours a sum of £1.7 million has been provided for their development. This will be required almost entirely to finance the syncrolift at Killybegs, the improvement scheme at Greencastle, the completion of schemes in progress such as those at Schull, Derryinver and Porteen on Achill Island. Apart from the Killybegs and Greencastle projects, all ongoing improvements are expected to be completed this year. I take the point raised by my colleague, Deputy McGinley, in relation to the water at Killybegs. A meeting has been arranged in the near future with the Department of the Environment and officials of Donegal County Council to discuss this very serious problem. He referred to Burtonport. I had two meetings with the Burtonport fishermen's organisation, one as recently as Saturday last, and have established that their priority would be the extension of the harbour. However, it is more practical to go ahead with the dredging which will be high on the priority list next year. However I must say that, at the end of last year, all of the money was not expended for this type of development. I regret that Burtonport had not been started then but hopefully it will be very high on the priority list next year. The Deputy also referred to Bunbeg. We realise its importance and will be pursuing the question of an extension of the harbour there. The question of Port na Blath was also raised. The cost in that case will some £106,000, a reasonable cost. I hope we will be able to look at this before the end of the year in order to ascertain whether the necessary finance can be provided. I also had discussions with the fishermen from Inver to which the Deputy also referred. We have given them permission to undertake some dredging work there. We are awaiting the costings of the widening of the pier and the heightening of the slipway. Cladnagaoragh pier is under active consideration. The mere fact that we have some £32,000 already as a contribution from Donegal County Council means that there is an obligation there. However, we must take landings of fish into consideration.

I should like to see more funds made available for harbours but, because of the heavy expenditure involved at Killybegs and Greencastle, this has not been possible. Of course an allocation of £1.7 million for fisheries harbours is equitable bearing in mind the financial position confronting the Government. We hope that a number of the other projects such as those at Burtonport, Clogherhead, Kilmore Quay and a few others can be considered for next year.

Some Deputies referred to the question of flags of convenience. Deputies will be aware of the difficulties facing the Irish authorities arising from the activities of the so-called flags of convenience vessels. The matter has been pursued by the Irish authorities in the courts and has also been referred to the European Court. I want to assure the House that the Minister and I will not countenace a situation in which these flags of convenience vessels will be allowed to fish our waters when they make no real contribution to our economy. We must aim to ensure that the maximum benefit from the fishing of Irish quotas will accrue to our economy. Here I should like to compliment the naval service and my Department's protection services for their outstanding contribution to the fisheries protection effort down the years.

There have also been incidents off the south west coast involving Irish trawlers and foreign fishing vessels. The matter was discussed in this House on 27 May last on the Adjournment debate. As the Minister indicated then we will not tolerate a situation in which Irish fishermen are prevented or hindered in any way from pursuing their legitimate fishing operations. I will not hesitate to take the necessary appropriate steps to deal with this matter. I have today arranged to view the situation at first hand with the aid of one of the air corps fisheries surveillance planes. However, due to unforeseen circumstances this was not possible. The Minister has asked me to view the situation early next week, weather permitting.

I should like to refer to a matter of vital importance, the question of quality. We are in the process of preparing a fish marketing Bill and will take into consideration the question of hygiene and quality so that Ireland and fish quality will be synonymous eventually. As far as Irish exports generally are concerned it is widely accepted at this stage that quality, more than price, is one of the main factors influencing foreign buyers to purchase from one producer rather than another. The importance of fish product quality, our overall national reputation and the competitiveness of Irish products on the majority of international markets cannot be over-emphasised. Already the International Carriage of Perishable Foodstuffs Bill has been circulated. That is important also if we are to ensure that our goods are transported in proper containers.

I should like to refer to the huge potential of maritime resources from an amenity and recreational point of view. This potential must be fully exploited. Recreational facilities, such as marina facilities and so on have not been developed here as they have been in other countries. For example, last year in my constituency we hosted the European surfing championships which were most successful. We must strive toward greater usage of the potential off our coasts. This can result in enticing tourists here. We can provide more jobs in the recreational area. I hope to have an opportunity in the future of developing at greater length those points in relation to quality and amenities.

I should like to thank Deputies who contributed to this useful and constructive Estimate debate here this evening. I should like to thank Deputies Doyle, Michael Higgins, O'Donoghue, McGinley, Deasy and the two Ministers of State who came in within the very limited time available.

As Deputies are full aware it constitutes a huge area. There is nothing like a time limit to concentrate people's minds on real issues. Might I give Deputies an assurance that if they need any information on any of the points raised here this evening I will be happy to provide it for them. I do not have an opportunity here of dealing in detail with the many points raised.

Deputy Higgins raised a matter that has been the cause of some concern, that is, the number of incidents involving fishing vessels in the Irish Sea and elsewhere in Europe in recent years in which submarines were involved. I should say that this issue has been raised with the International Maritime Organisation, the United Nations' specialised agency responsible for safety at sea. We will be afforded an opportunity later in the year at their governing body to raise this issue when we will be hoping for some positive action to deal with this menace which has been a cause of concern and very nearly the cause of tragedies here on a number of occasions in recent years.

I thank the Fine Gael and Labour Party Deputies for their constructive contributions. Unfortunately it appears that some of the other parties did not consider it sufficiently important to contribute. It is my belief that people will recognise the importance of this whole area, the need to organise our marine economy, through the Department of the Marine, in a way that will maximise jobs and revenue for this State, realising the huge potential that we, as an island nation, have on our doorstep. I hope this evening's debate will give further encouragement to all of us to press ahead with the urgent work of national development which needs to be undertaken in this vital area.

Vote put and agreed to.
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