asked the Minister for Labour if his attention has been drawn to reports that employees of the H. Williams Group will not be paid their full entitlements in respect of redundancy payments, severance payments, and holiday pay, when they are laid off on Friday of this week; if, in view of the hardship this would cause for the employees, the steps he intends to take to ensure that the employees are paid their full statutory entitlements by the company this week; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
Private Notice Question. - Redundancy Payments to H. Willliams Employees.
I am most anxious to do everything I can to help the employees of the H. Williams Group to secure any statutory payments due to them. My Department is in contact with the receiver of the company and the unions concerned about the matter.
My responsibilities in this area arise under the Redundancy Payments Acts which cover the statutory redundancy payments entitlements and the Protection of Employees (Employers' Insolvency) Act, 1984 which protects, within certain limits, contractual entitlements of employees of insolvent employers including unpaid wages, holiday pay and Employment Appeals Tribunal awards under the Minimum Notice and Terms of Employment Act.
So far as statutory redundancy payments are concerned lump sum payments fall due to be paid on the date or dates on which the redundancies take effect in individual cases. The receiver has indicated that the company will not be in a position to make these payments and, consequently, they will fall to be paid from the Redundancy and Employers' Insolvency Fund. So far, my Department has not received formal redundancy notices but it is making the necessary preparations so that payments can be made as quickly as possible. I expect that these payments will be made within two to three weeks of receipt of individual applications for payment supported by the necessary redundancy certificates from the receiver.
In relation to payments under the 1984 Act, my Department will also deal with any applications as quickly as possible. The applications must be submitted by the receiver together with an appropriate certificate of inability of the company to make the payments and all relevant details of individual entitlements. I expect that any such applications will be processed and payments made within three to four weeks of receipt provided they are properly certified by the receiver. However, all applications for payments under the Minimum Notice and Terms of Employment Act must, in accordance with the provisions of the 1984 Act, be submitted to the EAT for determination. Payments of any minimum notice awards will be made as soon as possible after the determinations of the EAT become available.
I thank the Minister for taking this question today as it affects a considerable number of workers. At the beginning of the problem with H. Williams the receiver made an arrangement with the employees that he would take their IOUs for three days money they were due by the company and that he would in turn seek to recover that money from the insolvency fund. Would the Minister undertake to put it to the receiver that a similar arrangement could be made in relation to the payments due to the staff at this point in time and that as it is in his hands to issue the various certificates and so on to have the moneys paid, it would be quite a simple matter to accept the IOUs of the staff and claim in his own name for a refund of the money?
I cannot give the Deputy a straight answer to that because I am not sure that can be done, but I will raise it. I am as anxious as other Deputies to try to assist the workers. For a number of weeks back, in our talks with the unions we have assured the workers that we will move as quickly as we can, if it came to a doomsday situation such as that which a number of the staff are now in. We are in contact with both the receiver and the unions and I will do anything I can to expedite matters. I am not sure if what the Deputy says is possible but I will take note of it. I have already arranged for the deployment of extra staff to that section of the Department because they will be receiving a great number of applications and in that way they can be dealt with as speedily as possible.
Will the Minister confirm that what I have suggested was done at the initial stages of the problems with the H. Williams group? Obviously at that stage the staff were needed in order to keep the shops open but apparently the receiver now considers that they are dispensable and he is not prepared at this point to enter into this arrangement. I would appreciate if the Minister would raise this matter with the receiver. I also ask the Minister, if that approach does not work, whether he can give an undertaking, assuming that all the various certificates are supplied by the receiver, that payments from the redundancy fund and the insolvency fund would be made before Christmas? Some of the workers have been informed that, at least in the case of the insolvency fund, it could be the New Year before the money will be paid.
In the normal course of events it takes a long period but as I have said in the reply, in relation to the redundancy and the employers' insolvency fund, if everything is done by the receiver we hope to be in a position, by using as many staff as we can, to make the payments in two to three weeks. It will take three to four weeks before some of the other payments are made. I do not have much control over the Employment Appeals Tribunal and the appeals process will take some further time. Most of the people should be paid before Christmas, and I say this subject to the fact that we have received no information from the receiver but I hope he delivers and, if so, the Department of Labour will deal with all the data prior to Christmas.
I wish to ask——
I would like to ask one final question.
I have allowed the Deputy quite considerable latitude. I shall allow him to ask a final supplementary.
I thank you, Sir, for allowing me to intervene and I support Deputy De Rossa in raising this question. I wish to ask two questions. First, can the Minister ensure that his colleague, the Minister for Industry and Commerce, is kept fully briefed on the position of the workers in relation to the redundancy and the offer that has been made to the receiver by an individual which is subject to approval by the Minister for Industry and Commerce? Can the concerns and the interests of the Department of Labour ride in tandem with the process of approval which the Minister for Industry and Commerce can exercise? I know there is no legal basis for that but there is a political basis for it. Secondly, having regard to the large volume of money in the employers' redundancy insolvency fund would it not be possible, subject to exploring the details, for the Department of Labour to lean on the bank that holds that account with a view to ensuring that some interim form of loan or cash payment could be made to the employees pending the completion of the process of appeal, through the time delays to which the Minister has referred?
In regard to the first question, it is a matter for the Minister for Industry and Commerce but I have kept in close communication and have met with the unions involved, both informally and formally, in the Department during the last four or five weeks. In regard to the second question, I would rather deal with the matter fully and properly with the co-operation of the staff in the relevant sections of the Department who have given me an undertaking to try to clear a large amount of the applications in the first two to three weeks and the remainder in three to four weeks. It would be better that we deal with the matter in that way, pay the right sums of money and clear up the matter prior to Christmas. I would rather handle the matter in that way than pay sums on account.
Will the Minister ask his Department to let my office know the response of the receiver with regard to advancing the money on foot of IOUs from the staff and also if there are any difficulties with regard to the supply of certificates and so on from the receiver to his Department?
I will discuss that matter with my officials and see what is the position under legislation. If there is any matter on which we can communicate with the receiver we will do so and we will let the Deputy know.
On a point of order, I understand that if I wish to give notice to raise a matter on the Adjournment I must do so before 4 p.m. As it is the beginning of the month, a number of people have been asked to renew their driving licences. It has been brought to my attention that a list of disabilities which specifically disqualify a sufferer from holding a licence include, at the top of the list, epilepsy, a disease which is in many cases controlled. This would mean that a number of drivers would be put off the road. I wish to raise on the Adjournment as a matter of urgency the subject matter of the new qualifications for driving licences.
I will communicate with Deputy Gay Mitchell in respect of that matter.