Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 12 Nov 1987

Vol. 375 No. 3

Adjournment Debate. - Driving Licences.

Mr. G. Mitchell

Thank you for giving me an opportunity of raising this very important matter which has affected many people since early November as it is the first month in which it applies. I do not intend to raise the matter in a party political way as I am sure the Minister is equally concerned about it.

A number of people have received renewal notices for driving licences and, in the case of Dublin Corporation — and which I am sure applies throughout the country — a list has been sent out to applicants giving details of those who are disqualified from holding a driving licence. There is a second list of people who can be qualified provided they submit a certificate of fitness by their doctor. The latter list includes people suffering from cardio-vascular disease who may be granted a licence provided they submit a certificate of fitness from their doctor.

There are a number of people on the first list who can no longer qualify for a driving licence, no matter how long they have held one previously. At the top of that list are people suffering from epilepsy. Chronic alcoholics have also been disqualified from holding a licence even if they have been dry for a considerable period. The list also includes people who are dependent on certain drugs and those who are suffering from severe renal deficiency. I can understand the difficulty in relation to people suffering from severe renal deficiency and tests should have been introduced in this area long ago. However, I cannot understand why a chronic alcoholic who has been dry for a considerable period — maybe ten years — should be disqualified from driving as he may never touch a drink again.

I have more than a passing interest in epilepsy but I will not go into it here. Some people are epileptics but they suffer from it in their sleep. It does not affect them when they are awake. There is another group who never suffered from epilepsy throughout their life but, for some unknown reason, it manifests itself in later life. Once it is diagnosed and treated the person may never have an epileptic turn again. It can be controlled by drugs and many people have not had an epileptic fit for more than two years. The form sent out by Dublin Corporation does not say that they can submit a certificate of fitness from their doctor and thereby qualify for a driving licence. I understand that the Minister and his Department are considering changes in this regard and the primary change should be in relation to epileptics who can submit a letter from a neurologist to say that he or she has been treating the person who is now free of attacks and is a fit person to hold a driving licence. The same applies in the case of a chronic alcoholic who is able to supply a letter from a specialist to the effect that he has been dry for so many years.

Many married women suffer from epilepsy but they take the necessary medication which does not cause any side effects. The epilepsy may never manifest itself and they are able to drive their children to and from school and do the shopping quite safely. An insurance company will give cover without any problem because it is not a serious illness and does not give rise to concern.

This restriction does not just apply to those applying for driving licence but to those who have held them for a number of years. I ask the Minister to change the regulations and I expect a favourable hearing because I understand the Department are reviewing the matter. As I said, I raise the matter in a non-controversial and non-political way and I ask for a reasonable response as it affects many people.

Minister for the Environment (Mr. Flynn)

I appreciate the manner in which Deputy Gay Mitchell raised the matter and I will treat it in a similar fashion. I hope the information I give will be informative. If he has any further problem regarding individual cases he is free to have the services of my Department.

Mr. G. Mitchell

Thank you.

Mr. Flynn

Regulations were made on 25 October 1986 giving effect to an EC Directive on driver licensing. The directive imposes minimum requirements of physical and mental fitness to be complied with before driving licences may be granted.

I should emphasise at the outset that, before the regulations were introduced, they were fully vetted by the EC Commission and endorsed by them as meeting these requirements.

To meet the Directive's requirements as to the absolute prohibition on granting of licences in certain cases, the regulations specify diseases and disabilities which disqualify the sufferer from holding a driving licence. An exemption from this absolute prohibition, as permitted under the Directive, applies to persons who held a licence in the five year period to 1 January 1983 — the operative date of the Directive. The disqualifying diseases and disabilities specified are diplopia, defective binocular vision, epilepsy, chronic alcoholism, dependence on psycho-active drugs and severe renal deficiency. The total prohibition applies only where a person is currently suffering from the specified disease or disability. In the case of any applicant for a driving licence who has suffered in the past from epilepsy or chronic alcoholism, a certificate of fitness, which is based on a medical report, must be obtained before the licence can be granted.

In cases of epilepsy, fitness to drive cannot be certified if the application relates to a licence for the larger vehicles — lorries and buses. Where the application relates to smaller vehicles — cars and light vans, agricultural tractors and motor cycles — fitness to drive may be certified— (a) where the applicant has not suffered an epileptic attack for at least two years and (b) for a limited period so as to ensure that he remains under medical supervision.

In the case of a person who has suffered in the past from chronic alcoholism, fitness to drive may only be certified for a limited period so as to ensure that the person remains under medical supervision.

The regulations generally do not give rise to difficulty for the vast majority of licence applicants. I recognise, however, that interpretation of both the legal and procedural aspects has caused some difficulties in a relatively small number of cases. So far as epilepsy is concerned, officers of my Department, in conjunction with the Deputy Chief Medical Officer of the Department of Health, have met representatives of the Irish Epilepsy Association. At this meeting questions as to when a person might be regarded as suffering from, or having suffered from epilepsy were discussed at some length, along with other relevant matters, including the position of persons whose condition is controlled by medication. As a result of this meeting, the association submitted to my Department for consideration a draft of an advisory leaflet on the practical effects of the regulations which they propose to issue to their members. The Department hopes to respond to the association fairly soon.

In relation to severe renal deficiency, my Department have already had similar discussions with representatives of the Irish Kidney Association and the Irish Medical Organisation. The principal matters at issue were what should be regarded as severe renal deficiency and the position of persons with a controlled renal condition. Officers of my Department had a further meeting with those representatives yesterday. At this meeting, in the light of a formal submission submitted on behalf of both organisations, my Department have agreed that severe renal deficiency can be interpreted as a deficiency so severe that the driving of a vehicle by the person concerned would be a source of danger to himself and other road users. That is very fair.

Before being granted a driving licence, a person suffering from a disease of the genito-urinary system is obliged to obtain from my Department a certificate of fitness which is granted on foot of a medical report. The Department have agreed that it is open to the doctor concerned to certify a person suffering from renal deficiency as being fit to drive provided that person's condition is being controlled or corrected by appropriate means, including dialysis, and is such that in the doctor's opinion the driving of a vehicle by the person would not be a source of danger to himself or other road users. The representative of both organisations have undertaken that they will take appropriate steps to bring the agreed position to the notice of kidney patients and their medical advisers.

The operation of the EC directive concerned has been under review by the Commission, in consultation with member states. My Department will have further consultations with interested bodies in Ireland in the event of any proposals being made by the Commission for amendments to the directive. I can assure the House that as sympathetic approach as possible is being adopted by my Department, subject to the constraints imposed by the requirements of the directive. It has probably been spelled out in a reasonable way for Deputy Mitchell and some of the fears expressed by him can be set aside. If the Deputy requires any further information I and my Department will be delighted to accommodate him.

Mr. G. Mitchell

I appreciate the manner in which the Minister has dealt with this. Will the Minister ensure that the information is communicated to Dublin Corporation and to other licensing authorities? Am I to understand that a person who has epilepsy but who can get a certificate from his or her doctor that he or she has not suffered an attack for two years can have a driving licence? Will the Minister agree that perhaps the word "suffer" is the word which needs a bit more analysis and definition for other applicants?

Mr. Flynn

The answer to both things is yes. Yes, we will inform them and yes, he or she can qualify if he or she has a certificate for a two-year period.

The Dáil adjourned at 5.15 p.m. until 2.30 p.m. on Tuesday, 17 November 1987.