asked the Minister for Social Welfare if he will ensure that those families in receipt of the transitional payment because of the effects of equal treatment in social welfare matters, will be given the free fuel allowance during this heating season.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Free Fuel Allowance.
7.
The transitional payments to which the Deputy refers were awarded to certain people in November 1986 when the equal treatment provisions came fully into effect. Those who qualified for the payments were people who, as a result of equal treatment, lost the adult dependant increases with their social welfare payment, because their spouse was either working or in receipt of a social welfare payment and, therefore, no longer regarded as an adult dependant.
The previous Government intended that these payments would end not later than mid-November 1987 but the Government have decided to continue the payments at their present levels at least until the end of the year, with a view to phasing them out over a period.
The transitional payments were paid to persons in receipt of any form of social welfare payment which included an increase for an adult dependant. The national fuel scheme applies to persons in receipt of long term payments only who are either living alone or living with dependants. This year for the first time the scheme has been extended to the long term unemployed where they live alone or have dependants. People in receipt of transitional payments are living with spouses who by definition are not dependent on them. To extend the national fuel scheme to people in this situation would have significant financial and other implications. There are no plans to further extend the free fuel scheme in the current heating season.
The Minister is aware that a transitional payment of £20 per week was introduced to alleviate the poverty of thousands of families. I am now informed that people in receipt of the transitional payment will not be allowed to avail of the free fuel scheme. I believe thousands of families will be affected by this decision. The Minister said he is extending the free fuel scheme when, in fact, thousands of families will be deprived of free fuel because they are in receipt of the transitional payment of £20 per week. Is that not what the Minister is conveying to us?
No, it is not because they are receiving the transitional payments. They are receiving the transitional payments because they have spouses who are not dependent on them. They are outside the conditions for the national fuel scheme by reason of their spouses not being dependent on them. No change whatsoever is being made. The Deputy is suggesting that another category of person be brought into the free fuel scheme and that is not contemplated at present.
I made an inquiry with one of the health boards and I am informed that those people in receipt of the £20 transitional payment will not be given free fuel. There are approximately 13,000 families involved and heretofore they were entitled to free fuel but now because they get the £20 transitional payment to alleviate poverty they are being deprived of free fuel. There is no point in the Minister coming into the House and telling us he is extending the scheme when in fact he is not doing so. He is withdrawing the free fuel service from at least 13,000 families. Furthermore, he is also saving one month's payments on the free fuel service. How, then, can the Minister come into the House and say he is extending the free fuel service?
I would like to be quite clear and specific about that matter. Benefit is not being withdrawn from anyone because of the alleviating payment. By definition, in order to get the alleviating payment a person must have a non-dependent spouse, someone who is earning over £50 a week, or who is in receipt of another social welfare benefit. In such circumstances there is no entitlement to free fuel. If by accident some people had been receiving free fuel payments, the health board may have told them that the basic qualifying conditions did not exist previously, but it would not be because of the alleviating payments. The national fuel scheme applies to long term social welfare recipients who live alone or with dependants only. That is the first qualification. Consequently, so far as they are concerned they would not have been eligible for free fuel and the alleviating payment would not change that situation.
I wish to draw the Minister's attention to his statement that it was the intention of the previous Government that the alleviating payment would terminate in the middle of November this year. Would the Minister not agree that perhaps he is being just a little presumptuous in making that statement to the House when it may well be that the previous Government would have continued that payment for a further year or more?
I am dealing only with the factual position in this year's Estimates. I had to find an extra £2.5 million to continue those payments to the end of this year. The position is that they were introduced for a year.
The Minister is misleading the House.
Will the Minister clarify if there are persons who are being excluded from the free fuel scheme this year on the basis that their spouses are no longer dependants as a result of the equality legislation introduced last year? If there are such persons, how many are there?
That is a separate question and if the Deputy wishes to put it down I will try to get the information for him. He is referring to cases where it may be discovered by health boards that people were not previously entitled to free fuel.
I am asking if there are wives who are no longer regarded as dependants and if there are people who were legitimately in receipt of fuel allowances last year because their wives were dependants but who this year, although their income has not changed in any way, are no longer so entitled.
I have not got that information. It may be that the information regarding the income was not available to the health board in the previous year or that they found that the income was more than they thought, but that is a separate question.
I want to deal with other questions. Deputy Sherlock, a final supplementary, please.
The Minister clearly stated that a person who is in receipt of another benefit would not be regarded as a dependant. In such circumstances if those people made application for full eligibility for health services would the income of both spouses be assessed? The Minister is now saying that a person is not entitled to free fuel if the spouse has a separate income but if the joint income of the husband and wife is over the limit for full eligibility is the Minister now saying that they can be assessed separately for the purpose of qualifying for full eligibility, in other words, if they are regarded as not being dependent on each other?
The Deputy started off by talking about the health services but I do not know whether he ended up talking about them. The conditions for the national fuel scheme are set down very clearly. They apply to long term social welfare recipients who live alone or with dependants only, who have no other significant income and are unable to provide for their heating needs. Those have always been the conditions and there has been no change in them in the current season.
May I ask one brief question?
I thought I had given Members a lot of latitude.
I want to ensure that this scheme is not being interpreted differently by different health boards. The Southern Health Board informed me that the £20 transitional payment is taken into account when assessing people's income and that, on that basis, some people will not receive the free fuel allowance.
We are having statements rather than questions.
Under the terms of the national free fuel scheme a person receiving the transitional payment would not, by definition, have been entitled to free fuel previously.