asked the Minister for Labour in view of the crisis situation at B & I if he will seek an immediate meeting of the Employer-Labour Conference to bring this protracted and unnecessary dispute to an immediate end.
Private Notice Question. - B & I Industrial Dispute.
In an effort to make the B & I a viable operation, a survival plan was drawn up which provided for significant cost savings. The unions representing both clerical and operative grades have accepted the cost-cutting proposals in order to save the company. The only outstanding problem is the reluctance of the 130 officers, members of the FWUI, to make similar concessions.
The Labour Court intervened in an effort to resolve the problem with the officers. The court issued a recommendation on 18 November which was accepted by the company but rejected by the officers. Several attempts have been made to resolve the issue since then but without success.
The Government considered the matter last week and stated that it was not prepared to consider a B & I plan of action which had not secured across-theboard support of the company's workforce. Seven days were allowed by the Government from the date of that statement after which a decision would be made by the Government on the future of the B & I. That seven-day period expires tomorrow. After their meeting yesterday, the Government reaffirmed their position.
I met a delegation of the officers this morning together with the General Secretary of the FWUI and I underlined the abolute firmness of the Government's position.
I would like to emphasise that this is not a normal industrial dispute. Last May the Government directed the B & I to submit a plan of action for implementation in the autumn aimed at restoring the company to viability. Prolonged negotiations followed and a Labour Court hearing. It is now December and I cannot emphasise strongly enough that B & I are on the verge of immediate closure. While normal working continues today, unless there is a change in the officers' position, every job in the B & I is in immediate jeopardy.
In the circumstances which I have outlined, I see no role for the Employer-Labour Conference. If the officers fail to support the company's plan of action the Government will be left with no option but to withdraw financial support with the obvious and inevitable consequences which would mean the end of the B & I.
In view of the information which the Minister has given us, surely it is incumbent upon him as the Minister responsible for good industrial relations to make at least one last effort to ensure that an arrangement is arrived at with the officers and their union to meet the deadline or, in the event of that deadline not being possible while discussions take place, that the deadline be extended. The Minister, since coming to office, has been involved in a number of disputes and with some success. In view of the fact that a strategic fleet is concerned and the need to maintain a strategic fleet, which was the catchcry when the Government representatives were on these benches, the Minister should make this last effort to extend the time available for talks to take place. If he thinks the Employer Labour Conference are not in a position to intervene, he should take this step rather than let this important national body go into liquidation. When so many other members of the B & I employees have arrived at very severe decisions which will mean a reduction of hundreds of jobs in that company, the Minister should not allow this one last hurdle to prevent him from arriving at a complete solution to the dispute.
I agree with the Deputy that the vast majority of the staff in B & I have made major concessions to try to resolve this impasse. The fact remains that following six months notice of the stated position of the Government, the Labour Court involvement and my own direct involvement, I have already done today what the Deputy is asking, at this stage there still appears to be a total impasse. There is no more room for concessions or for brinkmanship. The deadline is set for tomorrow night and if the agreed plan is not accepted the Government will withdraw their financial support. As I said, that will lead to inevitable consequences for B & I and I have made that very clear face-to-face with both the trade union representatives of the B & I officers and their shop stewards. I cannot go any further than that. If they will not listen and jeopardise the jobs of the other 1,300 employees in the B & I, the matter is then outside my powers of persuasion to convince them otherwise.
I do not believe the intervention of any other group or agency would assist at this stage. I hope the officers have listened to what the Government have said since April, to what all the remaining members of the workforce of B & I have said, to what the Labour Court have said and what a significant number of the Irish public have been saying to them. I have reiterated the Government's position to them today in the strongest of terms and there the position lies until midnight tomorrow.
Will the Minister say, in regard to this very serious situation facing us, why the Employer Labour Conference should not be brought in at this stage? I do not know why he says he cannot bring them in. I am sure this is a final arbiter in this whole area.
I accept the Deputy's right to ask the question but in this very difficult position there is no role for the Employer Labour Conference and neither has it been requested that they should intervene. The lines are clearly drawn and the definitions are well made. The position is that the officers either accept the overall plan or, if not, B & I will close from Friday.
On a point of order——
Let us hope it is a point of order, Deputy.
It is about a matter on which the House requires clarification. I submitted a Private Notice Question to you asking the Minister for Health if in view of the imminent closure of the National Social Service Board——
Deputy Allen, that is not a point of order, it is a point of disorder. The Deputy has been informed as to why his question was not allowed. I have nothing to add to that. If the Deputy wants any elaboration of the matter he can consult my office. He may not raise the matter now.
I was told that the matter is sub judice——
If it is sub judice the Deputy should not refer to it at all.
The matter which I am raising is not sub judice. You are taking this sub judice matter too far in this House. There is no rule in this House which says that I cannot——
The Deputy is now challenging a sub judice rule. The Deputy will resume his seat.
I will not.
In that case you will leave the House.
Quote me the rule please, a Cheann Comhairle.
No, there is no need for the Chair to quote the rule.
I am entitled to a clarification.
The Deputy is challenging the Chair. The Deputy will resume his seat or leave the House.
I am asking you to quote the rule.
The Deputy has been informed as to the reason why——
You are making this House a prisoner of the courts. I am entitled to have——
(Interruptions.)
Have respect for the Chair.
I would like the Chair to quote the rule to me.
If the Deputy persists in interrupting the Chair——
Is this House being stifled in its discussion?
Deputy Allen, leave the House.
You are making this House a farce.
I have informed the Deputy as to the reason why his question was ruled out of order.
I want the rule.
The Deputy has been fully informed.
I have not. There is no rule there.
Deputy Allen withdrew from the Chamber.