asked the Minister for the Environment if, in view of the severely restricted capital budget for housing in 1988, he will give greater flexibility to local authorities to purchase good value second-hand housing for reletting, for example in Dublin's inner suburbs, where in addition to housing more families for the same cash allocation, those families can be offered a greater choice.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Local Authority Housing.
8.
Housing authorities may submit proposals for the purchase of new or second-hand private houses where such proposals offer value for money, where established housing needs exist and, where it is not possible for the housing authority to provide suitable accommodation more economically within a reasonable period of time.
The initiation of proposals for the purchase of private houses is a matter for the individual housing authorities in the first instance. Any such proposals submitted to my Department are considered on their merits, having regard to the capital available for the housing construction programme and the housing needs of local authorities generally.
Each housing authority has been asked to submit its capital claim for its local authority housing construction programme in 1988. Pending receipt and examination of these claims, it is not possible to indicate what funds will be made available to the individual authorities to finance their housing programmes and consequently what new proposals may be approved.
While I welcome the degree of flexibility which the Minister is now offering, may I ask if he would confirm whether all the housing authorities have, in fact, submitted their applications for the programme for 1988? Could the Minister indicate when he will be in a position to announce the housing programme for 1988? He must be aware that many schemes have now been held up for six to eight months and the local authorities are waiting for the go ahead.
Yes they are, but they have not all made their submissions. I wish they would so that we could get on with the business. I do not have a list of the counties which have not yet made their submissions and therefore nobody should ask me to name them.
Will the Minister include a facility for local authorities to buy into stock houses which they are obliged to repossess because householders have been unable to maintain their repayments under the HFA loans? In the Dublin city area the local authority are repossessing approximately 20 houses a year and they are being sold for a pittance — £12,000, £13,000 or £14,000. These houses could be used to rehouse people on the corporation housing list.
It is something one could consider, but there is a continuing high vacancy rate in the city. At the last count, before Christmas, about 700 dwellings were vacant and 160 of them were in the inner city area. I note the point the Deputy is making but it is very hard to authorise the buying of secondhand, even new, houses in areas where we already have housing stock surplus to our requirements.
Would the Minister not accept that Dublin Corporation will not be building any houses this year and that there is no sign the housing list will be any smaller next year than it is this year? Would he agree that it would make economic sense from the Government's point of view that these houses be taken into stock by the local authorities? Would he not also agree that the vast majority of the 700 dwellings in the Dublin area are not in a habitable condition to be relet?
There is an element of repetition now.
I do not know how many of the housing stock in the hands of the local authority are unfit for human habitation. The facility mentioned by the Deputy to purchase new or secondhand houses in addition to their rented stock has been available to the housing authority since 1984 but certain conditions had to be satisfied. This facility is there to be utilised. I have no hang up about allowing local authorities to do that if there is a need for it, but it does not seem to be the thing to do if the authority already have houses in their possession which could be refurbished and relet. In one breath we are talking about the homeless and in another we talk about hundreds of houses available for reletting but nobody living in them.
In relation to houses which are repossessed by Dublin Corporation or any other local authority, and following Deputy De Rossa's supplementary question, would the Minister not agree there is something contradictory when an existing tenant exercising his option to buy a house would have to pay £18,000 to £20,000 for that house but if it is repossessed and put on the open market, it can fetch something of the order of £13,000 or £14,000. This clearly is an inefficient use of public capital moneys. In the specific instances to which Deputy De Rossa referred it makes good housekeeping sense that the local authority should obtain from the Department permission to acquire that house through the capital budget and not put it on the open market at a giveaway price.
There is a point in that and I might consider it further. The Deputy might raise it after I announce the details of my new tenant purchase scheme in the next couple of weeks. I recognise there is a problem to be tackled here as far as the market price of existing housing stock is concerned, getting value for money and trying to keep the social mix right by making houses available. I am going to try and do something special in that regard. If the scheme is working well we might take this up again and I would not be unfavourably disposed to doing something. I would like to get the matter settled once and for all as far as the housing stock is concerned and to make the best use of our existing housing stock.
Having regard to his replies to the previous question and his surprise expressed in relation to the large number of vacant dwellings in the Dublin Corporation area, would the Minister not consider diverting some of the £3 million to that authority to put back into occupational condition some of those dwellings so that he could make a much bigger dent in the problem of homelessness than currently is the case?
I am concerned about the number of houses available to local authorities, particularly in the city, some of which are not habitable but could be made fit to accommodate the homeless. I cannot understand why the authorities have not done something about this but there must be some good reason.
I can take the Minister to 20 empty flats within walking distance of this House.
Deputy Gregory.
But the homeless will not live in them.
They will, but Dublin Corporation maintenance department do not have the money to repair them.
I have called Deputy Gregory.
We have special money available to provide cash to voluntary organisations to allow them to house the homeless. As the Deputy knows, this is a very complex area. We cannot force people to live in areas they do not want to live in.
That is——
I must insist that Deputy Gregory be heard.
Before the Minister makes a final decision on the housing programme for Dublin and elsewhere, may I ask him to examine what exactly is involved in those 700 vacancies? He referred to 160 houses in the Dublin inner city. There are many vacant substandard uninhabitable flats in Dublin's inner city but there is a great need for houses in this area. I would ask the Minister to examine precisely what is involved in those statistics because when he examines them, he will see there is a great need for habitable houses in the centre of Dublin.
I will. I sometimes read reports from meetings held by the authority responsible for housing in this city and they support my point of view.
We will take the Minister on a tour.
In the dubious event of the Minister having any money available for the erection or purchase of local authority housing this year, would he consider relaxing the requirement that local authorities have to apply to his Department for sanction to purchase each existing private secondhand house? This is a very cumbersome procedure and its relaxation would hopefully stimulate the local authority into being much more active in this field.
What the Deputy is suggesting tells us why, since 1984, only 130 houses have been acquired by this method.
It is a pathetic record on the part of the local authority.
People are asking me to do things but this facility has been there since 1984.
It is the only administrative stumbling block I have ever heard the local authorities being able to put forward to justify their level of inactivity in this area, which I believe to be unforgivable.
That is a point and I agree that they have not used that facility. It is very difficult for a Minister to have to try to justify the lack of this or that——
I am calling Deputy Molloy.
Will the Minister cut the red tape?
There is very little attached to it, if the Deputy knew the truth.
Would the Minister accept that some housing authorities have much greater housing needs than others as was identified by his reply? In view of that, will he ensure that local authorities who urgently need housing will get their allocation at an early date? Is it true that some local authorities have not submitted their applications for allocations? If so, they may not have a great need but they are holding up local authorities who do such as Galway city and Galway County Council where an extreme housing emergency is building up.
I want to make those allocations now, I wish I could make them to day. I recognise — like Deputy Molloy — the need for rural housing where there is a big demand——
People have waited five years for houses.
I should like local authorities to know what is available to them as soon as I can possibly make the arrangements. I take the Deputy's point that some of the local authorities who have been tardy might not have the same urgency——
Perhaps their elected representatives did not know that the manager had not sent in the instruction.
Perhaps that is the case.
Will the Minister name them?
I do not have that information with me.