asked the Minister for Labour if he will now arrange for a special Labour Court investigation into the fire officers' dispute with Dublin Corporation, in order to try and break the deadlock that now exists arising from the recent breakdown in negotiations.
Private Notice Questions. - Dublin Fire Services Industrial Dispute.
asked the Minister for Labour if, in the light of the total failure of negotiations between the parties to the Dublin Corporation Fire Brigade dispute, he will explain the reasons for the latest impasse; and the steps he will take with a view to bringing this dispute to an immediate end.
This dispute has been in progress now for over one month and continues despite days and nights of negotiations in the Labour Court. No effort has been spared in attempting to find a solution.
Considerable progress was achieved at those negotiations and a number of useful proposals put on the table. The main problem seems to be a misunderstanding about the Government's voluntary retirement package.
In this connection I would like to state clearly and simply the following: (1) the package is voluntary: there is no onus on staff to accept it; (2) where however it is accepted by staff — in this case members of the fire brigade — the posts that are left vacant cannot be filled.
In the case of the fire brigade, Dublin Corporation felt the fire brigade should accept some small part of the economies which were being requested elsewhere in the knowledge that the Chief Fire Officer was satisfied that the reduction in staff would not affect the fire brigade in such a way as to bring about a deterioration in the standard and level of service. Sixteen men took the package. Over 400 are expected to go in the corporation due to voluntary redundancy and early retirement. The fire brigade is not therefore, being asked to make the same sacrifices as the rest of the employees of Dublin Corporation or indeed the rest of the employees in the public service. Nor have they been asked to do so in the past. Since 1982, fire brigade staff has expanded from 652 to 807 while corporation numbers in total have fallen by 645 from 8,398 to 7,753. The fire brigade have, therefore, been treated much more favourably than other corporation staff and other public employees. Corporation numbers fell by 8 per cent while fire brigade numbers increased by 24 per cent.
In terms of expenditure, expenditure on the fire brigade increased from £7.1 million in 1980 to over £20 million in 1988 and in the same period five new fire stations have been constructed. This, again, is in strong contrast to what has happened elsewhere in the public service.
As I mentioned, considerable progress was achieved in the negotiations in the Labour Court. Constructive proposals were put on the table which were turned down by an overwhelming majority. I might mention a few: (1) eight new promotional posts were offered at station officer level which protected promotional opportunities for fire fighters and subofficers; (2) a commitment was given to retain the grades of third officer and district officer; (3) eleven firefighters were to be recruited to fill future vacancies; (4) a strong commitment was given to the development of training: staffing requirements would be reviewed after one year's operation of the training programme and staff which would be surplus to requirements on the introduction of new communications system would be retained to facilitate training and (5) full pay was offered to those removed from the payroll before the strike commenced and interest-free loans to those on strike. A package on these lines must and should form the basis of a return to work. I understand the unions and the men have reservations about several items in the package. The corporation have stated they are willing to further clarify the package. If there is a basis in that for further discussions then I think the parties should meet again under the auspices of the conciliation service of the Labour Court.
Surely the Minister is not asking us to accept, after all the investment and building up of the fire service in the Dublin area, that we should now oversee a reduction of the quality of that service, which is basically what this dispute is about? Will the Minister agree that despite the fact that the package of voluntary redundancies is referred to as redundancies the jobs are not being extinguished, that the duties are being transferred to other members of the service? Will the Minister accept that at this point, having gone through the conciliation process on three occasions, it would be more productive for the Labour Court to have a special investigation into the dispute so that the matters outstanding can be dealt with and an early solution found to the dispute?
I would like to see an early conclusion of the dispute but it has to be based on negotiation. I must point out that one of the negotiating sessions took 34 hours non-stop. I should like to tell the Deputy that two of the points he raised are more relevant to the Minister for the Environment or Dublin Corporation. I will keep in touch with both sides in the dispute and if it is considered necessary I will go before the full Labour Court or to the conciliation services. I must say that up to now both sides wished to deal at conciliation level and I facilitated them in that regard.
Will the Minister explain to the House why the package that was negotiated after such a lengthy period of conciliation talks was so resoundingly rejected by the workers? Has the Minister any views on that? Will he agree that the threat to place pickets on State offices and at ports in Wales and so on is completely out of proportion to the difference between the sides in the dispute?
Yes, I would agree. Prior to the strike commencing there were four days of discussions and in the second week there was an afternoon of discussions. Last Friday week the conciliation officers met both sides and again on the Saturday before adjourning. They came forward with the proposals on last Wednesday morning at 10.30. They met continually from 10.30 a.m. last Wednesday until 8 p.m. and all indications, from the trade union leadership, the full-time officials, the conciliation officers, the advisers to Dublin Corporation and the Departments of the Environment and Labour as they left were that they had a solution. That did not happen. I cannot say what occurred between that time and when the meeting of the staff took place but there was an overwhelming change from what I understood to be the position. If there is anything further I can do within the conciliation service, or any other service in my Department I will do so in an effort to try to resolve the dispute.
Will the Minister agree to use his good offices again, as he has done, to bring about a resolution of this dispute now that Dublin Corporation, after one month, have conceded that there must be promotional opportunities and that they cannot abolish a district officership grade? It appears there is not that much between the parties after four long weeks of provocative and obdurate refusal on the part of Dublin Corporation to bring the dispute to a settlement.
The are 500 votes involved but I will do what I can to bring the sides together. The Deputy is correct in saying that the district officership will be maintained. If it is considered necessary that I should reclarify that position to those involved in the discussions I will do so, directly to the fire brigade staff if necessary.