asked the Minister for Education is she will immediately take steps to facilitate research, development and consultancy programmes within the regional technical colleges by ministerial order within the Vocational Education Act, 1930.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - VEC College Programme.
9.
The question of the introduction of arrangements formally to permit VEC colleges to engage in research and consultancy is being actively examined in my Department. In the interim my Department are considering proposals from VECs in this area and have in fact approved a number of proposals on an exceptional basis.
Athlone RTC have established a research board and they had their first meeting yesterday evening. They have an industrial liaison officer funded mainly from sponsorship. Carlow RTC are engaged in a research contract for the EC. Cork RTC are involved on the same basis. Galway RTC have a research and consultancy committee, as have Letterkenny RTC. Waterford RTC is about to undertake various consultancy work. There are a number of research assistants at Limerick. Quite an amount of research and development is carried out at Bolton Street College and at Kevin Street. The general answer is that third level VEC colleges have been forward in their approach to this matter and it is hoped that the forthcoming legislation will copperfasten their right in this respect.
I am aware of the increasing concern among principals and staff of RTCs about the legality of the contracts and work they are undertaking with outside bodies. They are of the opinion that they need a ministerial order quickly in order to continue on a legal basis this very important work. Is the Minister aware that there are three reports emanating from the old NBST, now Eolas, all of which address the question of the legal barriers to industry and higher education co-operation. One report, "Barriers" was issued in 1986 and two others were issued in 1987, one of which deals with limited liability. In view of the widespread concern among RTCs and the barrier to the great work which they can undertake, will the Minister look into the question of immediate ministerial orders in advance of the rather complicated legislation?
I have been aware from my own days as chairperson of an RTC in Athlone of the anomalies which exist in the search to engage in consultancy and research work. The RTCs I have mentioned and others have got around the anomalies in a clever way.
They acted illegally.
They have strongly integrated with their community and with the general remit they have been given. When I came into office and the merger of VECs was decided upon I made it one of the points which must be in the legislation that their remit to do so should be clearly identified and spelled out. It is being very actively pursued. In conjunction with Deputy McCarthy, Minister of State with responsibility for technology, we have been enabled to further the cause of research and consultancy within the RTCs and third level colleges in general. I am keenly aware of what they are doing but I am even more keenly aware of their potential and what they could really do if they got going. Rather than issuing guidelines in advance of the legislation, I would hope that the format of the legislation would be speeded up enough to combine everything together.
Is the Minister satisfied that there would be no problems with the local government auditor in respect of this activity in the sense that it is not statutorily approved at this point? Is the Minister satisfied that there will be no problem in respect of any claim for damages that might be made against any of those engaging in this activity in view of its non-statutory status? Will the Minister indicate why she will not make the ministerial order? Has she sought the assistance of the parliamentary draftsman yet in regard to such an order? If so, when will she make the order or what is holding it up?
I appreciate the fact that this matter has led to this debate. I have always thought that the potential of RTCs was not developed enough. I am satisfied that the local government auditor will not call into account the research and consultancy work carried out within RTCs. Having very carefully perused the 1930 Vocational Education Act, I am satisfied that the act is flexible enough to allow the RTCs and third level colleges to engage in this work, but I want to put it beyond all doubt. To do so I will embody it within legislation. I am satisfied that the local government auditor will not find them at fault.
Can the Minister say something on the question of legal liability and the delay in drafting the legislation?
I am satisfied that the RTCs are proceeding in that respect in a correct fashion but I am also very anxious that the upcoming legislation should copperfasten the position.
The Minister says she has perused very carefully the 1930 Act. Has she also asked the Attorney General to peruse it and are her statements here today a result of legal advice from the Attorney General's office?
All our business is pursued very correctly and I am satisfied as to the initiative shown by the RTCs. It is very odd that it is being so called into question. I am also satisfied that the local government auditor will not find them at fault and that Deputy Bruton's fears will be proved groundless.
Did the Minister ask the Attorney General?
The legislation will be very forward looking and all-embracing.
Is the Minister giving that information as a lawyer?
I am not a bad hand at those things either.
Has the Minister sought legal advice?