asked the Taoiseach if he will explain his statement to political correspondents on Tuesday, 3 May 1988 concerning his role in the approval of a marina project in Dún Laoghaire Harbour, County Dublin.
2.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Dún Laoghaire Marina Project.
1.
asked the Taoiseach if he will explain his statements to political correspondents on Tuesday, 3 May 1988 concerning his role in the approval of a marina project by Marina Developments (Ireland) Ltd. at Dún Laoghaire Harbour, County Dublin.
I propose to take Questions Nos. 1 and 2 together.
I briefed political correspondents on Tuesday, 3 May about the nature of the contact I had had with the provision of a marina in Dún Laoghaire Harbour following some unfounded statements made earlier in the Dáil.
I explained to the correspondents that I completely rejected any suggestion of any motive on my part in supporting the provision of a marina in Dún Laoghaire Harbour other than the public interest. I told them that I had no connection or association with any commercial organisation involved and that I was only concerned with the implementation of Government policy for the development of marinas and marine recreation. I outlined the background to the affair for them in so far as I was aware of it or had any contact with it.
That background is as follows. In 1983 a report prepared on behalf of the Harbour Study Group, which was comprised of nominees of four yacht clubs in Dún Laoghaire was formally adopted by the four clubs, signed by each of the commodores of the four clubs and formally submitted to the Office of Public Works for approval. This was a fully comprehensive study which identified five possible sites and recommended the Coal Harbour and the area in front of the National Yacht Club as particularly suitable for the establishment of marinas.
Over a period of four years there was discussion and correspondence between the Harbour Study Group, the Office of Public Works and, on occasions, with members of the last Government seeking formal approval for the proposals. During this period Dún Laoghaire Corporation also prepared to plan for marina and associated development at the Coal Harbour and outside the West Pier. Both the Harbour Study Group and Dún Laoghaire Corporation's harbour proposals envisaged a marina in the Coal Harbour area of the West Pier. In 1987 the Harbour Study Group prepared and submitted a further report seeking approval, in principle, for the provision of marine facilities in Dún Laoghaire Harbour and this proposal was again endorsed by the yacht clubs.
The position, therefore, is that the provision of marina facilities in the West Pier-Coal Harbour area has long been sought by responsible interests concerned with the development of the harbour and in particular was fully supported and endorsed by the yacht clubs who funded the work of the Harbour Study Group.
I was aware of this when I accepted an invitation from representatives of the yacht clubs in Dún Laoghaire to luncheon on 3 September 1987 to discuss a proposal of public benefit which I understood had widespread local support. The following were present at that meeting: Mr. Cooney, a former commodore of the National Yacht Club, Mr. Johnson, a former commodore of the Royal Irish Yacht Club, Mr. Power, a member of the Royal Irish Yacht and the National Yacht Clubs, Mr. O'Leary, a member of three of the yacht clubs and Dr. Paddy McCarthy and Mr. Tom McMahon of McCarthy and Partners, Consulting Engineers, technical advisers to the Harbour Study Group. Mr. Tom Fitzpatrick who it is stated is a member of the private company was not present.
The discussion was in the nature of an informal briefing on the long history of the efforts to develop modern marine facilities in the harbour and in particular to see if any progress could be made in the matter. The members of the yacht clubs present sought my support on the basis of expediting progress for their proposals through the machinery of the Government Departments concerned and nothing else.
It was explained to me that the yacht clubs, as such, would not be suited to undertake a development of this kind and, accordingly, it was being arranged that a private company would undertake it as a commercial development and that this was the only way of having it brought to fruition. That was the only reference made to the private company. There was no discussion of any kind about the structure, membership or financing of that private company.
I indicated to the members my support for the provision of one or more marinas in Dún Laoghaire and that I would see what could be done to have the long-standing administrative delays and difficulties overcome. As a result, I asked the Office of Public Works to accelerate their consideration of the proposals they had before them.
In October 1987 the Office of Public Works notified the Harbour Study Group that they agreed in principle to the provision of a marina in the West Pier area of the harbour and in November 1987 they similarly notified the Corporation of Dún Laoghaire.
About the same time, I asked the Minister for the Marine and the Office of Public Works to form a joint working party to expedite development proposals for a marina in the West Pier area in response to the long-standing demand for it. I indicated that the objective should be to develop a marina as soon as possible, preferably in 1988, in line with the Government commitment to maritime development and to get development projects under way as quickly as possible in view of the appalling employment situation.
I had no other meeting with any other club or persons about this project. My sole objective in this matter, therefore, has been to break the log-jam which has blocked efforts being made for many years by responsible interests to advance modernisation and improvement of facilities in Dún Laoghaire Harbour. I categorically reject any suggestion that I had any other objective before or subsequent to my meeting with the members of the yacht clubs than the promotion of the public interest through the development of up-to-date maritime amenities and facilities in Dún Laoghaire Harbour. I have no connection or association with any of the yacht or boat clubs in Dún Laoghaire or with any commercial organisation in any way involved in Dún Laoghaire Harbour. These suggestions are demonstrably untrue. I call upon those who have put them forward to withdraw them now without reservation.
Deputies
Hear, hear.
To be fair to the Taoiseach I should say I welcome his changed position on the Dún Laoghaire marina project announced last night. He has acknowledged that his unusual involvement aroused legitimate concerns in Dún Laoghaire. I would say that cutting through red tape——
I am sorry, Deputy, I am awaiting a question.
——is a positive thing but cutting out public scrutiny is another matter altogether. Following on the Taoiseach's lengthy reply I have two questions: first, did he mislead the political correspondents, or was he misled last week, when he stated that he had met representatives of the three yacht clubs to discuss the marina development? Does he withdraw his statement that the three yacht clubs have caused this commercial organisation — MDIL — to be formed?
My second question is: was Mr. Freddie Cooney wrong when he was reported in last Sunday's Sunday Independent, as stating that there were four other people at the luncheon and that only one of them, Mr. Tom Fitzpatrick, had ever met the Taoiseach before?
I will take the last point first because it has been subjected to some misinterpretation and it is important that it should be corrected. It is a fact that Mr. Tom Fitzpatrick was not at that luncheon meeting. Mr. Cooney states that he did not say that he was, but I think it is a matter which can be very easily ascertained beyond yea or nay. I have given the list of people who were at the meeting. There was nobody else there and, in particular, Mr. Tom Fitzpatrick was not there.
I do not know why Deputy Kennedy should talk about "misleading". I resent that sort of imputation. I misled nobody in this matter. I gave a briefing to the political correspondents along the lines I have elaborated in my reply. My understanding of it was that I was meeting representatives of the yacht clubs. If Deputies look at the list of people I met I think that would be a reasonable assumption for anybody to make. There were two former commodores, a member of the Royal Irish Yacht Club and of the National Yacht Clubs, and a man called O'Leary who was a member of the three yacht clubs. Of course the technical advisers to the Harbour Study Group were also there. So it was perfectly logical for me to assume that these people were representing yacht clubs.
The whole history of the thing before that would indicate that they were, because the Harbour Study Group was set up by the four yacht clubs. The proposal was endorsed by the four commodores. There was a subsequent report in 1987 seeking approval in principle by the Harbour Study Group submitted to the Office of Public Works, again endorsed by the four yacht clubs and that Harbour Study Group was funded by the four yacht clubs. So it was a very simple, logical thing for me to assume that the people I was talking to were representing the yacht clubs.
I welcome the Taoiseach's clarification of the position in the public interest. May I ask the Taoiseach why he did not inform these private individuals, who did not represent the yacht clubs but themselves, at that meeting that the public procedures of Government relating to tendering for State property in the two harbours would have to be adhered to? Why did he authorise the handing over of the property to those two individuals, one of whom was at the lunch and the other who is well known to the Taoiseach, who, after meeting, him, set up a private company? Finally, may I ask the Taoiseach if he will in the public interest rescind the Government's decision giving that State property to those two individuals and arrange, in relation to the harbour management plan, that public tender and public planning applications for all phases, including phase I of this proposed development, will now be brought into full play?
I wonder if——
Sorry, allow the Taoiseach to reply.
This is a very strange attitude for Deputy Desmond to adopt especially when there are on file a number of reports of meetings which he, as a junior Minister of the Government, held with yachting interests out there and expressed his full support for the provision of a marina by the National Yacht Club.
But not this project.
Let us hear the Taoiseach without interruption.
There was no question of anything going for public tender. As a matter of fact, in regard to the present proposal, no decision has been taken, the lease has not been signed, the lease is being negotiated. What happened was that a proposal was put forward by a harbour study group which consisted of representatives of the four yacht clubs and had their full endorsement. It was that proposal which was put to the Office of Public Works and it was in that connection that that proposal was considered by me, by the Office of Public Works and all those concerned. It was decided to go ahead with it because it seemed to be the only possible way in which a marina could be provided reasonably quickly in Dún Laoghaire Harbour.
May I ask a final supplementary?
Deputy Desmond.
Is the Taoiseach aware that the meetings I attended in my capacity as Minister of State at the Department of Finance were also attended by officials of the Department, officials from the Naval Service and by the Commissioners of Public Works? Those meetings are fully documented and they are not of the kind described by the Taoiseach. Is he also aware that in relation to any such meeting with private individuals on the formation of a private company which was part of that meeting, as Mr. Cooney has gone on record as saying, similar public governmental processes should be adhered to?
The simple facts from which Deputy Desmond cannot escape are that he, as a Minister of a Government, used his office——
In the public interest.
In the Labour Party's interests.
——and his capacity as a representative for Dún Laoghaire to fully support and smooth the way for the provision of a private marina by the National Yacht Club. He had several meetings, to one of which he called in the Navy, to override any objections they might have about the provision of a marina. It is totally inconsistent for Deputy Desmond to try to suggest that there is anything different in what I proposed and what the Office of Public Works now propose. A perfectly straightforward proposal was put forward by these people with — and there is no doubt about this — the full endorsement of the four yacht clubs for the provision of a marina in the Coal Harbour. In order to get something underway in Dún Laoghaire and to stop the drift and delay of ten years, I asked the Office of Public Works to get on with their consideration of that proposal.
Deputy Sean Barrett.
I placed a Private Notice Question which I thought——
I will call the Deputy in due course.
Arising from his reply, would the Taoiseach agree that this whole controversy could have been avoided if the Government had followed on the decision taken by the previous Government, in which both Deputy Desmond and myself participated, to establish a harbour authority in Dún Laoghaire? Would he not agree that the function of a harbour authority would be to draw up a development plan with regard to the future development of the harbour and put it on public display for all to see? Would he further agree in view of the fact that the control and management of Dún Laoghaire Harbour has not been transferred from the Office of Public Works to the Department of the Marine that it is completely incorrect for the Minister for the Marine to imply that he has power to grant permission to anybody when this is a function of the Commissioners in the Office of Public Works? I sincerely hope——
Questions, please.
——that all parties in this House will join together in opposing any such transfer and support the establishment of a harbour authority. If it is any consolation to the Taoiseach——
Please, Deputy Barrett.
I will finish now. If it is any consolation to the Taoiseach, the mud it was attempted to throw at him did not stop there. The two Deputies in question endeavoured to throw mud at me by implying I was bought off by having the insurances guaranteed for this marina.
(Interruptions.)
It was spread by Deputy Kennedy who told Deputy Desmond, who told a number of other Deputies.
I did not. It is totally untrue.
It is not untrue. I was told by Deputy Desmond that Deputy Kennedy started it.
That is a lie.
Order, please. The Taoiseach to reply to Deputy Barrett's question.
The question of whether responsibility for the harbour is transferred from the Office of Public Works to the Minister for the Marine would not affect the setting up of a harbour authority. The Minister for the Marine could still, if it was thought desirable in the public interest, set up a harbour authority. I want to clear up that point for Deputy Barrett. I also have to say to him in all sincerity that whether or not there was a harbour authority or legislation, it would not have stopped the controversy which has been stirred up — and I think mischievously stirred up — for the lowest of political reasons. I want to reiterate that my going out to Dún Laoghaire was purely in the public interest. I was under the impression that there was widespread local support for this project, that it would be for the benefit of Dún Laoghaire and would get something started in Dún Laoghaire. I went out in that mood and for that purpose only. It is totally misleading for Deputy Desmond to say that the luncheon I attended had anything to do with the formation of a company because it has now transpired that steps had been taken to form that company long before I went out to that meeting. The only reference to that company at the meeting was that it was indicated that yacht clubs themselves were not a suitable vehicle for the providing of any commercial enterprise of this kind and for that purpose a private company was being established. That was the only reference to a private company at that meeting. At the meeting I did not even know who was going to be in the private company or who was going to form it.
I wish to pay tribute to the personal integrity and honour of Deputy Seán Barrett but that was the rumour and it was an offensive and unfortunate rumour. In relation to the matter itself, I would like to express deep disappointment at the latest twist to the marina saga as the only Fianna Fáil TD for the area. Now that the programme has been successfully torpedoed by Deputies Kennedy and Desmond, can the Taoiseach give a commitment as to the future of this amenity? Will he place a time limit on when the project will begin? Will he further agree with me that if these plans are not implemented, the future for the economic development of the centre of Dún Laoghaire will be very bleak indeed?
I am glad Deputy Andrews raised those points. First, I want to say that I sympathise with him in his deep disappointment over this matter because he has been very courageous in standing up for the principle of getting something done in Dún Laoghaire Harbour which is a major national resource and has been lying there under developed for decades.
I want to say a couple of things to Deputy Andrews. First, there is a danger that, because of this political controversy which has been deliberately stirred up on this occasion, any desirable projects for that harbour in the future will be endangered; decent people will shy away from it, as I am afraid some of the members of the yacht clubs have shied away from this proposal having backed it up to the last minute. I want to avail of this opportunity to say that I would not like to be off the Blasket Islands in a force five with some of those Dún Laoghaire yachtsmen.
(Interruptions.)
They are not here to reply to this.
I understand Deputy Andrews' concern and I think I can allay it. What we are doing now in response to legitimately expressed concerns about lack of consultation with certain users and indeed with the discommoding of some traditional users is to delay matters for three months to enable a harbour management plan to be drawn up which, it is hoped, will have the approval of all the users or at least will give them an opportunity to have an input into its preparation. We have set a deadline of three months on the preparation of that plan and it would be still my intention that there would be a marina started in Dún Laoghaire harbour this year. To that extent I hope that Deputy Andrews and all the others who want to see progress and a development of modern facilities in Dún Laoghaire harbour will be satisfied.
I acknowledge the Taoiseach's commitment to the public interest and to the development of Dún Laoghaire harbour and his disappointment that so little development has taken place. While the yacht clubs harbour study group really involved the yacht clubs, the Taoiseach now knows and acknowledges that there are many other interest groups with a real involvement and commitment in this area also. I would ask the Taoiseach to be flexible with regard to those three months to enable a total exploration of the needs of all the users and potential users of the harbour and an environmental impact analysis to be carried out. I want to assure the Taoiseach and this House that the groups who have met with him and who have lobbied on this are no Luddites; they care for that harbour and wish for its potential development as dearly as the Taoiseach and everybody else in this House. I hope that we can build constructively on the meeting the Taoiseach had with the Harbour Watch Committee which is very representative of the interest groups there. I would ask above all that time be given for the Dún Laoghaire Harbour Authority and an environmental impact analysis to be set up as well. That would allay fears and get the support of everybody in the Dún Laoghaire area.
I appreciate Deputy Barnes' helpful and constructive approach to this matter. One of the assurances I can give her is that it was agreed with the people I met last night that the preparation of the harbour management plan would be a function of the planning review group which was being set up but that they would consult with another committee called the Harbour Liaison Committee who represent all the users of the harbour or at least the bulk of them. The planning group will consult with that users committee in drawing up a management plan. That would meet the suggestion from Deputy Barnes.
I would hope that it would be possible to prepare a suitable management plan within the three month period but it is not written in stone that it must be done within the three months. When we have that management plan it would be my wish that it would identify where a marina can be put and then we can get on with the provision of a marina and get something started.
I do not think we are really going to lose all that much time because it was my original hope that that marina would be in place this year particularly for the tourist industry but I do not think it would have been possible to have it in situ by this summer season. Therefore, the fact that we will spend this three months now preparing the harbour development plan does not really affect the issue all that much. It does serve the purpose, and this is in reply to Deputy Barnes, of giving everybody an opportunity to have an input into what is going to happen and see how they will be affected by it.
We have dwelt on these two questions for nearly a half an hour. It is a bit much. All the questions on the Order Paper are equally important to the Chair. I will call Deputy Desmond O'Malley and Deputy Pat McCartan if they will be very brief. I am going on then to deal with other questions.
In view of the suspension of this proposal for a period of three months or more, as was agreed by the Taoiseach last night, is it proposed now, in accordance with the practice that was established in the financial services centre in Dublin and by the Galway Corporation in relation to a marina in Galway, to invite other proposals or tenders or suggestions from different people as to alternative plans for a marina so that a selection can be made from several proposals as is the normal practice where a public project of this kind is intended?
As the Deputy knows there is no consistent practice. I am aware of a number of proposals for marinas in different parts of the country where only one proposal was put up and that proposal was decided on its own merits but certainly the harbour study group identified five sites in Dún Laoghaire which are suitable for a marina. In fact Dún Laoghaire Corporation are thinking of a different one again which would make it six. So there is a possibility for six different groups to put up proposals for marinas in Dún Laoghaire Harbour or immediately outside it if they so wish. I have said, again publicly, that if any of the Dún Laoghaire Corporation or any community group or any club or private enterprise wish to put forward a proposal for a marina in Dún Laoghaire Harbour I will make sure that they get every possible consideration.
(Interruptions.)
I welcome the Taoiseach's commitment to a planned programme of development in the harbour. Is he aware that since July 1986 Dún Laoghaire Corporation have had a request for application to the EC for a grant to develop a feasibility study, and that central to their plans was the idea of a marina development to the west of the West Pier, not involving the inner harbour at all? Would he agree that is an aspect which must be given consideration in any future development?
Yes, I am aware of that. I mentioned that Dún Laoghaire Borough Council and Dún Laoghaire Corporation have a plan in mind which is outside the harbour and outside the West Pier. That would be a very desirable project and, certainly, I would be very glad to encourage it. The only problem is that it has to be funded from public moneys.
The EC would give a grant of 80 per cent.
I am not saying that it completely rules it out, but I do say that it has the disadvantage that it would be calling on public funds. It is a major project. It would be a very desirable project if it could be brought on stream.
Question No. 3, please.
On a point of order——
I have devoted half an hour to these two questions and the Deputy is raising a point of order. Is this fair to the House?
Are you allowing me to come in or not? Say yes or no. I would like to know why you ruled out of order my Private Notice Question.
That is not a point of order.
It is a very reasonable point of order.
(Interruptions.)
This is getting serious now. Is this not disruption of the business of the House?
I would like to put it on the record of the House that I totally refute Deputy Barrett's allegation about me.