Vol. 380 No. 6
asked the Minister for Education if she has received a submission from the Psychological Society of Ireland proposing that two pilot projects for psychological services to primary schools be established; if she has considered the submission; if it is intended to establish these projects; and if she will make a statement on the matter.
15.
asked the Minister for Education the representations she has received from the Psychological Society of Ireland regarding the establishment of a number of pilot projects to provide an educational psychological service to primary schools; the policy of the Government on the issue; when these pilot projects will be initiated; the locations in which they will be initiated; the manner in which they will be initiated; and if she will make a statement on the matter.
37.
asked the Minister for Education the plans there are within her Department to set up a children's education psychological section, possibly in the Dublin area, even on a very limited pilot scale.
51.
asked the Minister for Education the plans she has to establish a schools' psychological service in order to assist teachers and parents in dealing with children with learning or behavioural disorders.
86.
asked the Minister for Education if she has considered the submission from the Psychological Society of Ireland requesting her Department to establish two pilot projects to provide educational psychological services for the primary school sector; and if she will make a statement on the matter.
87.
asked the Minister for Education if she is considering proposals from the INTO and the Psychological Society of Ireland for the establishment of pilot projects to establish a psychological service in the primary school sector; if she is in a position to give the go-ahead to these projects; if she will outline the way in which she sees a psychological service in the primary school sector developing in future years; and if she will make a statement on the matter.
I propose to answer Questions Nos. 9, 15, 37, 51, 86 and 87 together. I take it that the questions refer to primary schools as there is already a psychological service for post primary schools.
I met some time ago with members of the Psychological Society of Ireland and they agreed to make a submission to me on the question of two pilot schemes in primary schools. This submission has now been received and is being examined in my Department at present. I recently held another meeting with the psychological society on this subject and I intend to meet with them again at the end of May. I am not in a position to give a final decision until the submission has been thoroughly examined by my Department.
I am disappointed that it has taken the Minister so long to come to a decision on this very important matter. As the Minister is well aware we are unique in that Ireland is probably the only country in the EC or in Europe which does not have a psychological service for primary schools. It has been the long term policy of the INTO, of which I am a member, and the PSI to have this service established without further delay. Can the Minister tell us when she will be in a position to give us an answer on whether this service will be established and can she give us a guarantee, if and when it is established, that there will be two areas, one urban and one rural?
I do not question the sincerity of Deputy McGinley's statements about the psychological service but when his party were in power for four years and three months they did nothing at all about this——
They got no help.
——but now it has assumed enormous importance in his eyes.
We tried to do it but it was opposed.
Order, please.
Please, Deputies.
I have repeatedly said, even when I was in Opposition, that the psychological service for primary schools——
Those promises——
Let us hear the Minister's reply without interruption.
The Minister——
Deputy McGinley must desist from interrupting.
Very soon after taking up office I invited the psychological service, an invitation which they had not received before, to meet me. At my request they made a submission to me which was received in my Department in February this year. I had a subsequent meeting with them at which various points of elucidation were raised between the psychological society, the officials of my Department and me. Both parties are looking at those points at present and we are going to meet again at the end of May. This represents remarkable progress after a period when there was no progress whatsoever in that area. I am, and this has been well known in educational circles for many years, favourably disposed towards this proposal and it remains for me to work out with my Department officials if I can go ahead with it.
May I ask the Minister——
Sorry, I am calling Deputy Proinsias De Rossa.
May I ask the Minister to clarify for the House whether her Department and the Government agree in principle that there is a need for a psychological service in primary schools and that what is at issue here is simply the methodology or the way in which this service will be implemented? Can she also indicate if she expects this pilot scheme to be in place for 1988-1989?
I think there would be agreement throughout every section of education and of Government that, of course, there is a need for such a service. That is well established.
To answer the Deputy's second question, the format as put to me by the Psychological Society of Ireland consisted of two projects involving an urban and a rural area to be run on a three to five year evaluation period with ongoing monitoring, the achievements to be then evaluated and, hopefully, disseminated throughout the system. Those are the bones of the submission made to me by the PSI. I am personally committed to it. I cannot say here now if it will be in train for September of 1988 but I am working towards that end. I am constantly in touch with them to clear up various points and am hopeful of reaching a conclusion.
The Minister has made more progress in this area than has any previous Minister for Education. Having said that, could I ask the Minister if it is proposed to set up a steering body to monitor the pilot projects? Will the projects be evaluated by an independent research body with experience in educational research? Generally, will the projects be tied in to the whole educational system rather than linked specifically to health? Could the Minister say, at this early stage, what shape that exploration will take? It is important that we draw on the experience of other countries who have had this kind of system in place for a number of years and ensure that it will be almost totally educationally orientated before any plans are finalised.
I would like to thank the Deputy for her earlier remarks. All of the matters raised by the Deputy were raised at the meeting with the psychological society and they are the matters to which we are returning at the meeting at the end of May.
Is the Minister personally in agreement with the submissions made by the PSI? Could she indicate how much it will cost to finance these two pilot projects over a three to five year period and if it is finance that is causing the delay now rather than any disagreement in principle with what the PSI have submitted?
I said earlier that I was personally favourably disposed towards the proposal. We have only met within the last couple of weeks and various matters which have been teased out here in the Dáil Chamber were discussed at the very fruitful meeting we had. This threw up issues which need to be looked at closely.
