asked the Minister for Finance if his attention has been drawn to the fact that the annual accounts furnished by the Central Bank in the form required by regulation are inadequate to determine whether the resources used by the bank are properly allocated and whether the expenditure on salaries and other items by the bank are necessary; that the bank's reports including the proceedings at the Central Bank set out therein afford no opportunity for public representatives to judge the efficiency of the bank and the necessity for the expenditure made by it; whether he has had consultations with the bank as to the level of reserves held by it; and the procedures which exist between his Department and the Central Bank in respect of determining the necessary level of reserves; and if he will make a statement on his Department's view on the present level of reserves held by the Central Bank and their possible repayment in part to the Exchequer.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Central Bank Annual Accounts.
The Central Bank is an independent body established by statute. Since its formation in 1942, it has been generally accepted that the bank should be afforded a large degree of autonomy in the conduct of its operations. I do not agree that the bank's annual accounts and report are inadequate.
The reserves of the bank belong to the bank, and have been accumulated over the years through the bank's normal operations. I do not determine the size or the adequacy of the reserves. My role relates to the surplus income of the bank, the bulk of which is paid by the bank into the Exchequer, under regulations made by me.
Would the Minister not agree that independence and autonomy are one thing but accountability is another and that the public are entitled to know whether the Central Bank — which is a substantial financial institution with many resources at its disposal — is giving value for money? I have got to suggest to the Minister that, for instance, it is not even visible from the reports furnished for the last three or four years even what their employees are doing, or how they are assigned, even though that had been their habit until then. Surely the public are entitled to know whether this institution is giving value for money? To explain that does not compromise its independence or autonomy in any way.
The accounts of the Central Bank are audited by the Comptroller and Auditor General. Its report and accounts are laid before both Houses of the Oireachtas. The board of the bank are appointed by the Minister for Finance and its Governor by the President. I can require the Governor and the board to consult and advise me in regard to the execution of their general functions and duties. I do not see that any additional legislative provision is required. I might also remind the Deputy and the House that they will have an opportunity in the very near future, on the Central Bank Bill, to discuss some aspects raised by the Deputy here.
Is it right that any Deputy of this House, putting down a question as to how the resources of the Central Bank are deployed, or what their staff work at in broad terms, is told that that is a matter for an independent body established by statute since it is the Minister for Finance who appoints, and will appoint, all the members of the board of the Central Bank? In addition, is it right that the accounts of the bank should be such as to present two gross figures — the total amount paid in staff costs and the total amount in other expenses — as the only way in which the elected members of this Parliament can ascertain whether money is being properly spent or otherwise in that institution? Is it fair, proper or compatible with parliamentary responsibility and public accountability that that is the sum total of what we are told?
As the Deputy will agree, the question of salaries and what people are paid is a matter for day-to-day running. If the bank is to retain its independence, and surely the House would agree that it is entitled to run its institution on a day-to-day basis and be totally responsible for it, it must have responsibility for the day-to-day running of that business. I might add also that the bank has full regard to the public service norms in its approach in this regard. If the Deputy wants to discuss the matter further and make additional suggestions I should advise him that he will be afforded an opportunity in less than two weeks.
Would the Minister agree with me that the Director of Public Prosecutions and the Ombudsman are also independent institutions of the State but that does not mean we cannot find out what they are doing, what their staff are doing and whether the offices under their control are being efficiently run? Surely it is entirely wrong that no Member of this House can even query the expenses and the management of, say, the Mint at Sandyford, and that the Minister abdicates responsibility and refuses to answer any questions in relation to such issues.
The accounts are audited by the Comptroller and Auditor General. Is the Deputy suggesting that there is something amiss in the way the Central Bank is carrying out its functions? If that is what he is saying, I cannot accept it.
No. That is the whole point. I want to know about value for money.