asked the Minister for Industry and Commerce if, in view of the further increases in the price of alcohol imposed by publicans, he intends to reintroduce price controls on alcohol; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
Ceisteanna-Questions. Oral Answers. - Price Controls.
22.
As the Deputy will be aware detailed price control procedures have been allowed to lapse since early 1986. The purpose of this was to encourage competition and to allow market forces and consumer reaction to dictate prices. I do not propose to reintroduce price control in respect of alcoholic drink, as this would be contrary to the policy of encouraging competition.
In July 1988 an order was made to prevent an attempt by Dublin publicans to increases prices. In revoking that order on 3 November, the then Minister made it clear that he would act again in a similar fashion should there be any renewed attempt at concerted action by the trade. The Deputy can be assured that that is also my position. I note that the publicans in Dublin, at least, intend to absorb the recent excise increases and I welcome this.
Would the Minister agree that there is a huge variation at present in the price of drinks, that it can vary from £1.35 in some cases to £1.80 in the Dublin area? Surely this is an indication of a high level of profiteering. The Minister said in his reply that an order was made in July 1988 to prevent publicans increasing prices. Would the Minister not agree that this has great implications for the tourism industry as most tourists are shocked by the level of prices in this country?
The fact that these price variations exist should enable people who want a drink to choose which establishment they want to give their business to. This variation can only be a healthy move. It also reflects the different standards of the premises in the country at large. Various publicans charge different prices because they have a different quality of surroundings and it is for the customer to make his judgment as to which pub or hotel he wants to support. If he does that on price alone, that is a matter for him but I do not favour price control.
I wish to ask the Minister two questions. Firstly, is he aware that the secretary of his Department stated at a meeting of the Committee of Public Accounts that it was his belief that there is no collusion between publicans in regard to price increases? Does the Minister share this rather naive view? Secondly, I wish to ask——
The Minister is responsible and blame should not be attributed to any of his officials.
That statement has been made on the record——
Sorry, Deputy, that is the procedure in this House. The Minister is responsible and officials should not be brought into the debate.
I am asking the Minister if he agrees with this statement which has been publicly quoted in the newspapers and made on the record of this House under the appropriate privileges of this House. I think it is perfectly reasonable——
The Chair has ruled on the matter.
——to ask the Minister if he agrees with this.
I believe there is not collusion. If I get any evidence of collusion in relation to increasing prices, the Deputy can be assured that I will use the machinery available to me under the prices control legislation, as was done by my predecessor in relation to the increase imposed last summer. I am not aware of collusion. On the contrary, I am aware that the trade is trying to have as varied a pricing structure as possible, as can be seen from the point made by Deputy Sherlock who said there are variations. If there was collusion these variations would not exist.
I find it hard to believe that there is not collusion when in many areas of the country prices in all the pubs in a particular town seem to increase as if by magic on the same day. I do not see how that can be done other than by some form of communication. If the Minister was provided with evidence that there was collusion or unreasonable pricing, would he be prepared to consider, in substitution for the use of his powers under the pricing legislation, the selective issuance of additional licences in particular geographic areas?
The issuing of licences is not my responsibility, but if the Deputy has examples of towns where this has happened in the recent past — since the order was lifted in November — I would be keen to get the information. I can assure him I will then take the necessary action. I have already had meetings with the associations involved, with the country and the city publicans, in relation to this question. If the Deputy or anybody else gives me the information — I have already said this publicly and I will say it again in the Dáil — in relation to price fixing in towns or regions, I will take immediate action.
Has the Minister in any of his discussions questioned why there is such a disparity in the price of, say, non-alcoholic lagers which sell at approximately £2.60 a pint as opposed to normal alcoholic lagers which sell at £1.60 a pint? Would he agree that this is not in the interests of health and safety and that it is a total abuse by the trade at a time when we are encouraging people not to drink and drive? This is totally contrary to what we are trying to achieve. There is something seriously wrong with these prices.
The question relates to the price of alcohol imposed by publicans and not price control on alcohol. I agree with the Deputy that the price of non-alcoholic drinks, of mixers and minerals generally, seems to be out of line with the price of alcoholic drinks. This is something that we keep constantly under observation.