asked the Minister for Education if she will amend school transport regulations in order that children could qualify for subsidised school transport to the most suitable school rather than the geographically closest school.
Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - School Transport.
7.
Transport services to schools are determined within the context of the objective of the school transport scheme which is to provide a basic level of service to those children who would otherwise have difficulty in attending school regularly. Eligibility is determined by reference to the nearest school deemed to be suitable by my Department. There are no plans to amend the existing school transport regulations.
Would the Minister accept that particularly in the Dublin area the scheme can and does produce many anomalies and ridiculous arrangements that should be looked at closely. As far back as July 1988 in a meeting with the Minister for Education a number of these instances were drawn to her attention. As I understand the regulations transport is provided to the school within the shortest walking distance. Public transport in Dublin on the radial basis can involve two or three journeys to a school and considerable greater distances and time. Has the Minister given any attention to these anomalies or is there any intention to amend the regulations?
Anybody who deals with school transport will accept that there were anomalies right from the beginning of this scheme. While I would not disagree with what the Deputy has said, any new scheme would bring about its own anomalies. If the Deputy is suggesting that we do a complete change of the system that operates I suggest that he provide us with an alternative which will not have anomalies and certainly he will be doing something that was never done before.
It was suggested that the scheme has been long enough in place for the Department to appreciate its workings. For example in my constituency the DART line is a very convenient mode of transport. I would draw the attention of the Minister to people in that area who would like to attend the all Irish schools in Booterstown but the regulations require that those pupils go to Glasnevin. The journey on the DART line is one single run across town and there is no change in terms of having to walk to a different route or bus, but to go to Glasnevin involves two different routes.
The Deputy is referring to specific aspects of this matter which are worthy of separate questions.
It merely illustrates the type of anomalies there are.
I appreciate what the Deputy is seeking to do.
I urge the Minister to reflect on the difficulties, particularly in the urban areas, that the school within the nearest walking distance might not be the most convenient in many respects and that the regulations could warrant some attention.
The Minister and myself would agree with the Deputy that the specific arrangement in any particular case may not be the most suitable but the difficulty that exists, and which has always existed, is that if you divert from the objectives of the scheme and allow people to come and go as it suits them very soon people throughout will decide that it is more suitable to go here, there or elsewhere. The Minister, the departmental officials and I have looked very carefully at this problem and no matter what you do with the scheme to try to accommodate the anomalies which we all accept you will create further anomalies. Obviously such changes would have major implications for teaching posts in schools where there may be a serious reduction in numbers in one area and an increase in numbers in other areas. Generally it is not possible to come up with an ideal scheme which is to everybody's satisfaction. In relation to Irish schools and the question of convenience this is something that has been uppermost in the mind of the Minister because of her support for the Irish schools. Certainly we will look at that particular aspect.
While the Minister of State is having a look at the Irish schools would he have a look at the situation of the multidenominational schools. Is he aware that some very curious features seem to have arisen in relation to what is regarded as a suitable school? In some parts of the country it appears that the providers of transport have taken the view that a multidenominational school is suitable for the Protestant children of the area but not suitable for the Catholic children of the area which is a very odd arrangement.
That is not the view of the Department.
I was careful to say that.
We will have a look at it. There are certain exceptions to the scheme and one such exception is the provision for the conveyance of Protestant children to national schools under Protestant management and consequently they have always been given the necessary advantage in terms of the provision of school transport.
But it defeats the purpose of multidenominational school transport.
We accept that this is an anomaly but the major difficulty is that if you allow people to move in accordance with their own wishes you will very quickly reach a situation of chaos. When we took office we had ideas about how changes might be made but as the Deputy is aware when alternative suggestions are made you very quickly realise the practical problems that arise.
Question No. 8, please.
I wish to ask a brief supplementary.
I just want to alert the House to the fact that we have disposed of only seven questions in 40 minutes. This is very slow progress from any standpoint.
The Minister has admitted that there are many anomalies. Would he accept that in many cases the school transport system is designed to facilitate transport operators rather than children? If he is looking for a criteria against which to eliminate a number of the anomalies, he might start with the children. In my constituency children who want to get to a certain school are brought by public transport to the city of Cork and must make their way to the school by another means of transport. If children could be taken from their homes to the school I would suggest that that might be a very good way to begin unravelling the anomalies to which the Minister has referred and which he has honestly acknowledged are there.
A Cheann Comhairle——
Please, Deputy.
The primary objective of the school transport system is to provide a cost-effective method of transport of children to their respective schools. If we were to attempt to provide a system of transport with children only in mind I would suggest, with respect, that we would possibly require double the existing budget from the Department of Finance and I wonder if that accords with the policy of the party to which the Deputy belongs.
If it represents value for money.
I have called Question No. 8.
I wish to ask one brief important question.
A Cheann Comhairle, I would like——
Please, Deputy Birmingham, give us a break. Question No. 8, please.
I would like to make one brief important point with regard to rural schools.
Sorry, Deputy. The Chair must be obeyed at some stage.