It is proposed to take No. a1 on today's Supplementary Order Paper and Nos. 1, 6, 2, and 7. It is also proposed that the Dáil shall sit later than 9 p.m. today and business shall be interrupted at 10.30 p.m. It is further proposed that Nos. a1 and I shall be taken without debate. Subject to the order for the Second Reading of the Bill being made, Private Members' Business shall be No. 4.
Order of Business.
Is the proposal for the late sitting today agreed? Agreed. Is the proposal for dealing with items Nos. a1 and I agreed?
It is not agreed.
Deputy O'Malley indicated his intention to move an amendment but I must advise him it is out of order.
Why?
It is a direct negative.
In view of the more recent developments, when it now appears that it is proposed to postpone the meeting of the committee concerned at 4 o'clock, surely that will allow an opportunity for a debate to take place? I trust, therefore, that the Government will accept this without the words "without debate" as suggested in my amendment as there is now ample time for a debate.
I would like the Taoiseach to respond to the point made by Deputy O'Malley but I can tell you, a Cheann Comhairle, even with Deputy O'Malley's amendment being ruled out of order, as you seem to have done, it is certainly not acceptable that item a1 be taken without debate.
I am calling Deputy Desmond.
Can the Taoiseach tell us why——
I am sorry, Deputy Desmond, but the Taoiseach wishes to intervene.
I am not aware of any decision to postpone any committee meetings. Furthermore, I would like to say that in my experience in this House, it is totally without precedent, I believe since the foundation of the State, that a report of the Committee of Selection be debated.
Is the Taoiseach aware that it is wholly without precedent in this House that the chairman of a joint committee, by virtue of his conduct as a Deputy, should have to resign as a member of that committee?
The Deputy should desist from any further mention of that matter. It does not arise now.
In the circumstances may I ask the Taoiseach why he is not prepared to allow a debate on this report?
As I said, it is completely without precedent that there be a debate on a report of a Committee of Selection. The Committee of Selection is a procedure whereby the parties nominate people to committees. There is a Fianna Fáil vacancy on a particular committee and the Committee of Selection report purports to fill that vacancy, nothing more. As far as the Government and I are concerned, this committee should sit and do its business. It has full authority and capacity to look into and investigate any matters it wishes. All we are concerned with in the Committee of Selection report, in accordance with time honoured, unassailable precedent, is the filling of a vacancy on a committee so that it may proceed to do its work. When the committee reports, if it wishes to report, any debates which are sought can be facilitated in this House.
I wish to indicate that I am opposing the taking of item a1 without debate today. I think it is highly irresponsible of the Taoiseach to attempt to have this matter pushed through today without debate. It is the only opportunity this House will get to discuss a matter which has given rise to the need for a change in the committee. Could I also make the point that even if this motion——
There is no need for elaboration now, Deputy.
Even if the report of the Committee of Selection is not accepted, the committee——
I am putting the question.
(Interruptions.)
On a point of order, the Committee of Selection, as you have noted, a Cheann Comhairle, has discharged a Deputy from the joint committee. We must accept or not accept that report. We are entitled to know why the Deputy has resigned and to discuss what information the committee received in relation to his resignation. We are also entitled to pass judgment. I would not accept any cover-up on this matter.
If Deputy Desmond persists in ignoring the Chair, he knows the consequences.
It has gone on for a week. We are entitled to discuss this matter at this time.
On the issue of the resignation of Deputy Lawlor from the committee and in order to assist the committee, may I ask the Taoiseach if he will confirm whether he requested Deputy Lawlor's resignation or whether he advised him to resign from that committee? Will he also give the reasons why he did that?
The inquiry by the Joint Committee on Commercial State-Sponsored Bodies on actions, or alleged actions, by its chairman does not arise now.
On a point of order, last week you asked a Deputy to leave the House for raising this issue.
On a point of order——
I have so many points of order I cannot deal with them.
On a point of order, you requested the leader of my party to leave the House last week for raising this issue.
Please, Deputy Desmond, there is no need to refer to previous events.
It is a blatant attempt to stifle any discussion on this matter at this time. It is not a discharge of your functions to assist the Taoiseach in covering up——
I will not take a lecture from you, Deputy, as to how I should discharge my duties. I am now putting the question.
(Interruptions.)
On a point of order——
This is the last point of order I shall take on this subject. I will not be thwarted.
We are not about to disrupt the business of this House. We are merely trying——
If the intention is to disrupt the business of the House, let that be made clear. I am now putting the question.
On a very serious point of order——
I will hear Deputy Quinn.
I understood you to say that you would not be thwarted and the House would fully support you in that endeavour. However, some of us may suspect that the unseemly haste with which this matter is being dealt with, perhaps wrongly, is an indication that you are inadvertently thwarting——
The Deputy should not reflect upon the Chair in that fashion. I am now putting the question.
If that is the case, allow a debate on this matter.
Question put: "That item a1 be taken without debate".
The Dáil divided: Tá, 67; Níl, 69.
Tá
- Abbott, Henry.
- Ahern, Bertie.
- Ahern, Michael.
- Andrews, David.
- Barrett, Michael.
- Brady, Gerard.
- Brady, Vincent.
- Brennan, Séamus.
- Browne, John.
- Burke, Ray.
- Byrne, Hugh.
- Collins, Gerard.
- Conaghan, Hugh.
- Connolly, Ger.
- Coughlan, Mary T.
- Cowen, Brian.
- Daly, Brendan.
- Davern, Noel.
- Dempsey, Noel.
- Dennehy, John.
- de Valera, Síle.
- Doherty, Seán.
- Fahey, Jackie.
- Fitzgerald, Liam.
- Fitzpatrick, Dermot.
- Flood, Chris.
- Flynn, Pádraig.
- Foley, Denis.
- Gallagher, Denis.
- Gallagher, Pat the Cope.
- Geoghegan-Quinn, Máire.
- Haughey, Charles J.
- Hilliard, Colm Michael.
- Hyland, Liam.
- Jacob, Joe.
- Kirk, Séamus.
- Kitt, Michael P.
- Kitt, Tom.
- Lawlor, Liam.
- Lenihan, Brian.
- Leonard, Jimmy.
- Leyden, Terry.
- Lynch, Michael.
- Lyons, Denis.
- McCarthy, Seán.
- McCreevy, Charlie.
- Mooney, Mary.
- Morley, P.J.
- Nolan, M.J.
- Noonan, Michael J. (Limerick West).
- O'Dea, William Gerard.
- O'Donoghue, John.
- O'Hanlon, Rory.
- O'Keeffe, Batt.
- O'Keeffe, Ned.
- O'Kennedy, Michael.
- O'Leary, John.
- O'Rourke, Mary.
- Reynolds, Albert.
- Roche, Dick.
- Smith, Michael.
- Stafford, John.
- Treacy, Noel.
- Walsh, Joe.
- Walsh, Seán.
- Woods, Michael.
- Wright, G. V.
Níl
- Barnes, Monica.
- Barrett, Seán.
- Barry, Peter.
- Begley, Michael.
- Bell, Michael.
- Birmingham, George.
- Boland, John.
- Bruton, John.
- Bruton, Richard.
- Carey, Donal.
- Clohessy, Peadar.
- Colley, Anne.
- Connaughton, Paul.
- Cooney, Patrick Mark.
- Cosgrave, Michael Joe.
- Crowley, Frank.
- Cullen, Martin.
- Deasy, Austin.
- Hussey, Gemma.
- Kavanagh, Liam.
- Keating, Michael.
- Kelly, John.
- Kemmy, Jim.
- Kennedy, Geraldine.
- Lowry, Michael.
- McCartan, Pat.
- McCoy, John S.
- McDowell, Michael Alexander.
- McGahon, Brendan.
- McGinley, Dinny.
- Mac Giolla, Tomás.
- Mitchell, Jim.
- Molloy, Robert.
- Naughten, Liam.
- Nealon, Ted.
- De Rossa, Proinsias.
- Desmond, Barry.
- Doyle, Avril.
- Dukes, Alan.
- Durkan, Bernard.
- Enright, Thomas.
- Farrelly, John V.
- FitzGerald, Garret.
- Flaherty, Mary.
- Flanagan, Charles.
- Gibbons, Martin Patrick.
- Gregory, Tony.
- Harney, Mary.
- Harte, Paddy.
- Hegarty, Paddy.
- Higgins, Jim.
- Higgins, Michael D.
- Howlin, Brendan.
- Noonan, Michael (Limerick East).
- O'Brien, Fergus.
- O'Keeffe, Jim.
- O'Malley, Desmond J.
- O'Malley, Pat.
- O'Sullivan, Toddy.
- Pattison, Séamus.
- Quill, Máirín.
- Quinn, Ruairí.
- Shatter, Alan.
- Sherlock, Joe.
- Stagg, Emmet.
- Taylor, Mervyn.
- Taylor-Quinn, Madeleine.
- Wyse, Pearse.
- Yates, Ivan.
Tellers: Tá, Deputies V. Brady and Wright; Níl, Deputies J. Higgins and Kennedy.
Question declared lost.
We come now to the item proper, No. a1. — Report of the Committee of Selection.
I take it that we are still on the Order of Business.
I want to call Deputy Birmingham concerning—
On the Order of Business I should like to ask your permission to raise on the Adjournment a report to the effect that £190,000 of funding from the national lottery has been used to equip the Taoiseach's office with a computer, a use for which national lottery funds are not intended.
I will communicate with the Deputy.