Is the proposal that the Dáil shall sit later then 9 p.m. today agreed?
Agreed.
Is the proposal for dealing with items Nos. 7 and 8 agreed?
Order of Business (Resumed)
No, a Cheann Comhairle. I wish to raise a point in relation to item No. 8 — the motion proposing that health contributions be increased — which it is proposed to take without debate today. I regard that as a most unsatisfactory way of dealing with the matter. I want to give notice that I will be calling for a vote against the increased health contributions.
That is noted, Deputy. The proposals with regard to Items Nos. 7 and 8 are agreed, the objection of the Deputy concerned and his colleagues being noted. Is the proposal in relation to item No. 9 agreed? Agreed. Is it agreed that consideration of Government business be not interrupted today at the time fixed for the taking of Private Members' business?
No, it is not agreed. I take strong objection to the fact that there will not be Private Members' Business this week. Over the past few months we had a system whereby the Whips discussed the arrangement of business. But on this occasion it would appear that an agreement has been reached between the Whips of the Fianna Fáil and Fine Gael Parties without consultation. We, in the Labour Party, have not had the benefit of Private Members' Time this session, a very valuable time for Opposition parties. I believe there should be Private Members' Time this week to enable us to avail of Private Members' Time on the resumption of the Dáil. Therefore, we are objecting very strenuously to that proposal.
Shall I put the question?
May I make this brief point, Sir, on a related subject? I hope that Deputy Spring and his colleagues will participate in the debate this evening on the Special Report of the Committee of Public Accounts on the future role of the Comptroller and Auditor General and the Committee of Public Accounts.
Deputy Spring, may I put the question in relation to the matter you have addressed?
I disregard that as irrelevant; I am still objecting to the Order of Business.
All right.
The Deputy is displaying a militant tendency.
I take it, then, that the Order of Business——
(Interruptions.)
Deputy Spring would need to watch out; he cannot expel us.
I am calling Deputy Mervyn Taylor on the same subject.
I want to make the point and submit to you, Sir, that the Fine Gael Party do not want to use their Private Members' Time because they have nothing to say. That is perfectly satisfactory. I can assure you, a Cheann Comhairle, that the Labour Party will be happy to move in and undertake that role.
I take it that the proposal in regard to item no. 9 is agreed. I have now disposed of the Order of Business.
No, Sir, we are objecting to the Order of Business.
I asked Deputy Spring if I would put the question and I did not hear him assent.
A Cheann Comhairle, he waved a dismissive hand.
I wonder where he got that from?
From me.
(Interruptions.)
I am putting the question: "That consideration of Government business be not interrupted today at the time fixed for the taking of Private Members' Business".
The Dáil divided: Tá, 102; Níl, 28.
Tá
- Abbott, Henry.
- Ahern, Bertie.
- Ahern, Dermot.
- Ahern, Michael.
- Andrews, David.
- Aylward, Liam.
- Barnes, Monica.
- Barrett, Michael.
- Barry, Peter.
- Begley, Michael.
- Birmingham, George.
- Boland, John.
- Boylan, Andrew.
- Brady, Gerard.
- Brady, Vincent.
- Brennan, Matthew.
- Brennan, Séamus.
- Browne, John.
- Bruton, John.
- Bruton, Richard.
- Byrne, Hugh.
- Calleary, Seán.
- Carey, Donal.
- Conaghan, Hugh.
- Connaughton, Paul.
- Connolly, Ger.
- Cooney, Patrick M.
- Cosgrave, Michael Joe.
- Cowen, Brian.
- Creed, Donal.
- Crowley, Frank.
- Daly, Brendan.
- Davern, Noel.
- Leonard, Jimmy.
- Leyden, Terry.
- Lowry, Michael.
- Lynch, Michael.
- Lyons, Denis.
- McGahon, Brendan.
- McGinley, Dinny.
- Mitchell, Gay.
- Mitchell, Jim.
- Mooney, Mary.
- Morley, P.J.
- Moynihan, Donal.
- Naughten, Liam.
- Nealon, Ted.
- Nolan, M.J.
- Noonan, Michael.
- (Limerick East).
- Noonan, Michael J.
- (Limerick West).
- Deasy, Austin.
- Deenihan, Jimmy.
- de Valera, Síle.
- Doherty, Seán.
- Doyle, Avril.
- Dukes, Alan.
- Ellis, John.
- Enright, Thomas.
- Fahey, Frank.
- Fahey, Jackie.
- Farrelly, John V.
- Fitzgerald, Liam.
- Fitzpatrick, Dermott.
- Flaherty, Mary.
- Flanagan, Charles.
- Flynn, Pádraig.
- Foley, Denis.
- Gallagher, Denis.
- Gallagher, Pat the Cope.
- Geoghegan-Quinn, Máire.
- Griffin, Brendan.
- Haughey, Charles J.
- Hegarty, Paddy.
- Higgins, Jim.
- Hilliard, Colm Michael.
- Hussey, Gemma.
- Hyland, Liam.
- Jacob, Joe.
- Kenny, Enda.
- Kirk, Séamus.
- Kitt, Michael P.
- Kitt, Tom.
- Lawlor, Liam.
- O'Brien, Fergus.
- O'Dea, William Gerard.
- O'Donoghue, John.
- O'Hanlon, Rory.
- O'Keeffe, Batt.
- O'Keeffe, Jim.
- O'Kennedy, Michael.
- O'Leary, John.
- O'Rourke, Mary.
- Reynolds, Albert.
- Roche, Dick.
- Smith, Michael.
- Stafford, John.
- Swift, Brian.
- Treacy, Noel.
- Wallace, Dan.
- Walsh, Seán.
- Woods, Michael.
- Wright, G.V.
Níl
- Bell, Michael.
- Clohessy, Peadar.
- Colley, Anne.
- Cullen, Martin.
- De Rossa, Proinsias.
- Desmond, Barry.
- Gibbons, Martin Patrick.
- Harney, Mary.
- Higgins, Michael D.
- Howlin, Brendan.
- Kavanagh, Liam.
- Keating, Michael.
- Kemmy, Jim.
- Kennedy, Geraldine.
- McCartan, Pat.
- McCoy, John S.
- McDowell, Michael Alexander.
- Mac Giolla, Tomás.
- Molloy, Robert.
- O'Malley, Desmond J.
- O'Malley, Pat.
- O'Sullivan, Toddy.
- Pattison, Séamus.
- Quinn, Ruairí.
- Spring, Dick.
- Stagg, Emmet.
- Taylor, Mervyn.
- Wyse, Pearse.
Tellers: Tá, Deputies V. Brady and D. Ahern; Níl, Deputies Howlin and Stagg.
Question declared carried.
On the Order of Business——
I had called Deputy Barry earlier.
Earlier this morning I asked for a Special Notice Question regarding the parade that is being held in New York on St. Patrick's Day, specifically to the attendance there of a Government Minister while an avowed supporter of NORAID is to lead the parade. The Chair turned my question down on the basis that it was answered on 21 February last.
That is so, Deputy.
I find it difficult to understand how a question relating to an interview given this morning can have been answered on 21 February last.
I am sorry, Deputy Barry, I have conveyed my decision to you. I have nothing further to add to that. The matter was debated in this House quite recently.
Thank you, a Cheann Comhairle. The Taoiseach——
Sorry, Deputy, you may not persist. This is completely out of order.
The Taoiseach in response to Deputy Deasy on the same day indicated that he would look into the matter——
Deputy Des O'Malley has offered.
The Taoiseach has indicated that he would look into the matter and would ask Deputy Reynolds to withdraw from the parade. Will the Taoiseach do that now?
Please Deputy Barry, I have ruled the matter out of order on the grounds that it was a repeat——
(Interruptions.)
Deputy Des O'Malley.
Will the Taoiseach respond, please?
Is the Taoiseach prepared to have the House sit on Thursday in order to debate the question of the plans for the EC Structural Funds as these plans have been lodged in Brussels before 31 March? The House, according to its present schedule, is not due to sit again before then, after tomorrow night, and there will be no opportunity in this House or indeed anywhere else in the country to discuss these plans before they are finally lodged.
Perhaps this is a matter for the Whips to discuss.
Between £3,000 million and £4,000 million——
The Deputy has made his point.
It seems quite inappropriate that this House should sit for only two days this week and no day at all next week and allow this matter——
Deputy O'Malley, please desist. It is a matter primarily for the Whips. I am calling Deputy Spring.
May I seek to raise on the Adjournment——
With respect to Deputy Spring, may I have an answer to that point? Would the Taoiseach agree to the House sitting on Thursday for this purpose?
I suggest you maintain the rules of order of the House.
I am calling Deputy Spring.
I think, Sir, we are sitting only two days——
Please, Deputy O'Malley, there are other ways of dealing with the matter. I have called Deputy Spring. Deputy O'Malley I will have to deem you out of order if you persist.
Apparently there will be a recess of four weeks at this time. This is a matter of extreme importance.
That may be so but doubtless the Deputy will find another way of dealing with that matter.
Unfortunately I cannot because the House will not sit to discuss it.
Please, Deputy O'Malley. Deputy Spring has been called.
I wish to raise on the Adjournment confirmation by the Minister for Agriculture and Food, Finance and Justice of their discovery and investigation into a fraudulent activity by an Irish meat exporting company concerning FEOGA payments.
I will communicate with the Deputy.
Referring back to what Deputy O'Malley has just said, could you advise me, Sir, if there is a way in which I could place a document in the Library of the House, for the benefit of the House? The interim draft development plan for Dublin is now available and the Taoiseach does not appear to want to have this matter discussed in the House. Would it be in order, Sir — if the Taoiseach will not do it — for me to put that document before the House so that at least the House has that minimum information?
I will consider that aspect of the matter. Deputy Doyle is offering.
I have already indicated that the House will have ample time to discuss the national development plan.
Before it goes to Europe.
I am calling Deputy Doyle.
The Taoiseach will appreciate——
We cannot debate the matter now. I have called Deputy Doyle.
——there is not much point in a debate after it has been lodged.
I have called Deputy Doyle.
Why should Ireland be the only country where these plans are not discussed in Parliament. Similar plans have been discussed in every other country.
The Deputy has made his point. He must now resume his seat.
It is a disgrace that there is no discussion because this House is sitting for only two days this week.
I am calling Deputy Doyle. I would ask Deputy Doyle to respond.
On a point of order, in reply to the out of order interjection of Deputy O'Malley, it seems quite extraordinary that Deputy O'Malley should be protesting about the length of time the House sits when this House, quite exceptionally, has sat every Tuesday and Wednesday night until 10.30 p.m. and 11 p.m. since the House reassembled in January. That in itself is a demonstration of some zeal, but the extraordinary thing about it is that though the House was sitting at those times, it was almost impossible to find a Progressive Democrat in the House.
Deputies
Hear, hear.
The attendance record of these Deputies is better than that of any other party in this House.
(Interruptions.)
There is no need for disorder at this stage.
It is a disgrace that matters of fundamental importance are not discussed.
I have called Deputy Doyle.
Such a remark does nothing for the kind of problem that is created for this country and the Taoiseach knows that well.
Deputy O'Malley, please resume your seat.
At the risk of testing your patience I would like, on the fifth occasion, with your permission, to raise on the Adjournment in view of its national and international renown, its vital importance to the faculties of agriculture and veterinary, the future of the UCD farm at Lyons Estate. As a rider could I add that a committee of the governing body of UCD are deciding the fate of Lyons Estate and I would urge that you consider my request.
I am aware of the Deputy's continuing interest in the matter and I will communicate with her. Deputy Quinn has been offering for some time.
On the Order of Business, having regard to the realities in relation to the timetable of the next four to five weeks, is the Taoiseach in a position to indicate to the House when this House will debate the submitted plans to Brussels and, if so, what approximate amount of time does he have in mind for this debate which will now presumably take place after 31 March?
I am quite prepared to give two days, three days, or whatever the House feels is necessary. I suggest that this would be the first business after we resume.
Thank you. Would the Taoiseach see the debate in any way altering or changing the content of the plan that has been submitted to Brussels? What would be the purpose of the debate if the document has already been submitted?
None.
The primary purpose of debates in this House is to assess documents of this kind, inform the public as to their contents and receive views from the House.
All that is supposed to happen before the document is submitted. What is the point of having it afterwards when it cannot be changed? It is absolutely ridiculous.
Please Deputy. I am calling Deputy De Rossa.
Proinsias de Rossa
I seek permission to raise on the Adjournment the continued closure of the Belfast-Dublin rail line as a result of bomb attacks and bomb scares, the danger to passengers and the disruption to travel and freight and the threat to jobs.
I will communicate with the Deputy.
Do the Government intend to provide time to debate the Wireless Telegraphy (Television Programme Retransmission) Regulations, 1989, which were laid before the House today and which deal with the provision of multi-channel microwave distribution systems in the country?
I suggest it is a matter primarily for the Whips.
It is Government time; I presume the Government orders time. Would the Taoiseach be agreeable to it in principle?
It does not involve legislation.
Try the Whips.
Deputy McCartan is offering.
I seek your permission to raise on the Adjournment tonight the question of the continued and widespread blatant disregard for the Gaming and Lotteries Act by the gaming hall amusement owners in the city of Dublin despite the decision of the City Council in 1986 to abolish gaming in Dublin, which is well illustrated in the recent publications of the Evening Herald the urgent need for action by the Minister for Justice and the Garda.
I will be in touch with the Deputy concerning the matter.
I would like to raise on the Adjournment this evening the closure of the midland butter and bacon factory in Tullamore last Friday night and the fact that the wages cheques for last week have not been met by the banks. The staff have received no formal notice; the electricity supply is being cut off; there is a danger of food being destroyed and there is the question of employment——
I will communicate with the Deputy.
I understand legislation has been promised on a trustee savings banks Bill. Could the Taoiseach indicate when that Bill is likely to be circulated?
The Bill is being drafted at present.
Is it likely to be introduced early in the next session?
Not very likely.
For the fourth time, I seek your permission to raise on the Adjournment the grave hardship which continues to be inflicted and the anxiety being created by the down grading of Cavan General Hospital by the Minister for Health and the Government.
I will be in touch with the Deputy concerning that matter.
Is the Taoiseach going to respond to my remarks about the St. Patrick's Day parade on Friday and the presence at it of the Minister for Finance, Deputy Reynolds?
Please, Deputy.
I think it would be a great mistake if a member of this Government stood on a platform with somebody who supported NORAID.
This matter is not in order now and I have declared it so.
In relation to Deputy Enright's request I would like also to raise on the Adjournment the closure of the midland butter and bacon factory.
I will be in touch with the Deputy concerning that matter.
In relation to legislation could I draw the Taoiseach's attention to the fact that another young child has died, in Waterford, on this occasion of apparent solvent abuse? When is it proposed to deal finally with the Child Care Bill in this Houese? This Bill proposes to deal with the problem of solvent abuse and other serious matters.
As the Deputy knows the Bill is at Committee Stage and we hope to complete it next session.
Before we leave the Order of Business, may I inquire of the Minister for Labour how he got on this morning with his representations to the Government about bread prices and if a new procedure is being invented——
That is not in order now Deputy Dukes, as the Deputy well knows.
Is this a new procedure——
I am calling item No. 5.
The Minister for Justice is very annoyed and the Minister for Industry and Commerce is very annoyed.
(Interruptions.)
Deputy Charles Flanagan is offering.
I want to add my voice to those of my colleagues in seeking your permission, a Cheann Comhairle, to raise on the Adjournment the closure of the factory in Tullamore, County Offaly.
I will be in touch with the Deputy concerning that matter.