Skip to main content
Normal View

Dáil Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 18 Apr 1989

Vol. 388 No. 8

Private Members' Business. - Economic Development Bill, 1989: Second Stage (Resumed).

Question again proposed: "That the Bill be now read a Second Time."

(Limerick East): It is a coincidence that we were talking about the economic plan last week, the Finance Bill today and now we are back to the same theme again. There are hardly variations on the theme at this stage. It is difficult to think of anything new to say when one has been over the ground so often.

First we should state the principle which underlines this initiative by Deputy John Bruton and the Fine Gael Party in advocating an economic accord for 1990 and then seeking to legislate in the areas of that accord which would require changes in the law. We are of the view that there are certain fundamental flaws in our economy which prevent economic development and growth. An gad a bhí níos gaire don scórnach was the burden of the national debt. We realised after our period in Government that to establish the kind of consensus not only in this House but among the key players in the economy whom the Government describe as the social partners and also to get a consensus among the electorate at large we required a bi-partisan approach.

We do not believe that the Government could have proceeded with such a series of expenditure cutbacks to bring us in sight of stabilising the GNP-debt ratio without that consensus in this House. That consensus went out to the wider community and the supporters of the parties who were in general agreement here found that they did not line up with individual pressure groups who were trying to put the Government's policy off the rails. We have had a number of examples of this over the past two or three years. There is certainly still a problem with the national debt since it is growing all the time, but as a percentage of GNP it has been substantially reduced. Consequently the crisis element has disappeared and the debt remains the problem which continues to exist. That was a success in terms of people agreeing that there were general principles on which they could work together, even though they were divided about other matters in this House.

We have sought to extend that thinking to other areas of the economy. We tried it in the reform of taxation. I argued on the last Finance Bill and the one before that reform of personal taxation was absolutely vital, but I also said quite openly that it would be very difficult to reform personal taxation. Clearly the resources necessary to establish very low rates of income tax are not there and will not be there for some time. What is involved in the reform of taxation is a reallocation of resources and in any such reallocation, with a different spread of the burden of taxation, there will be winners and losers. The experience in other countries was that if the reform of taxation was approached incrementally it did not work because the winners identified their winnings much later than the losers identified their losses. Frequently many people paying income tax won a little bit. They gained in a small way and did not become over-excited about it, but those who lost a particular tax avoidance scheme or taxation perk they had enjoyed felt the pain rather dramatically. They organised themselves very quickly into effective lobby groups and stopped the Government who tried to move incrementally on the reform of taxation. I and my party are of the view that if we are to reform taxation we should do it by presenting a package which would clearly identify the losers and the winners and we would try to establish a consensus in this House in judging the most effective personal income tax system to encourage growth and development. We put this forward as a proposal and the Government have decided not to go along that road.

The Government could share some of the views we have on economic development. No matter what countries we compare ourselves with, it is quite clear that the Irish economy has performed very inadequately in this and the last generation. In terms of a league table of developed economies we have slipped back. Our rates of growth have only been about half that of the average for the EC over the past generation. Why is that so? Why can we not perform as the Danes, the Dutch, the Belgians and the Germans perform? Why should we always be the sick man of Europe? Is it some fault in ourselves or some fault in the way we arrange matters? Clearly it is a fault in the way we arrange matters.

Various people have analysed the difficulties in the Irish economy. The best analysis in recent times is in chapter 1 of the National Development Plan. It is an economic and social analysis which effectively lists the problems in trying to make this economy grow. It does so very well. It may be moving from a wrong motivation. Somebody may have decided that the way to get the maximum Structural Funds from Europe was to present the blackest picture possible and to point out in great detail the inadequacies of the Irish economy so that if the case was made as black as possible we would attract the maximum amount of Structural Funds. Whether or not that was the motivation, we still have in chapter 1 of the plan a serious analysis of the problems of the economy and the factors which are preventing growth, both at the macro-economic and sectoral levels. That should be taken very seriously. The plan does not subsequently move to eliminate those weaknesses. It sets out a series of infrastructural projects, all of which are worthy in themselves, but the sum of all of them does not constitute a plan.

What we and Deputy John Bruton had in mind was a very simple idea. If we could identify and agree that there are certain structural and sectoral weaknesses in the economy there would not be that much difference on either side of the House. An analysis such as we have in chapter 1 of the national plan would point out those weaknesses quite clearly. We might be able to pick out a number of them as priorities and seek to get a lasting agreement, regardless of which party were in Government, so that there would be continuity of policy. We would also seek a wider consensus among the trade union movement, employers' organisations and the farming groups so that certain key principles and strategies would remain the same and there would be a continuing policy into the nineties towards removing those factors which inhibit growth in our economy.

I should like to quote two examples. The first is the whole problem of being on the periphery of Europe. We are the ultimate peripheral country out in the Atlantic. With the Channel tunnel now being constructed we will shortly be the only island on the western approaches to Europe. The plan says that because of our peripheral location transport costs for Irish exporters to Europe are between 9 and 10 per cent of export sales values, approximately twice those incurred by Community countries trading with one another on the European mainland. This cost penalty applies to the great bulk of Ireland's international trade, exports, imports, materials and capital goods. I do not think there is a Deputy in this House or a citizen in this country who, if he understood the economic arguments, would disagree with that. The fact that we are on the edge of Europe and have to transport our goods to the marketplace is a serious problem which is preventing this economy from growing. The home market is only 3.5 million people, and it is self evident that we cannot organise enough economic activity internally to gainfully employ all our citizens. We have to export to live; it is only as a trading nation that we can survive. It is clear what the problems of transport are. We are suggesting that we should agree a programme and stick to it, right across the floor of this House.

The list of infrastructural projects, particularly the 1,500 or 1,600 miles of national primary routes which are going to attract the resources of the Structural Funds, are all desirable objectives. Of course we need main roads running to the ports and improvements in our main roads structure. We need more than that because there are other cost factors. We also need an immediate movement to reduce the cost of excise on articulated vehicles because that is one of the major impositions which makes transport here so expensive. Second, we should reduce excise on auto diesel. I know that there are not vast sums of money lying around in the Government coffers to make dramatic reductions in the price of petrol simply by removing excise duties. That would be unrealistic; but we can move selectively beginning with auto diesel, so that some of the disadvantages which are suffered by Irish exporters are reduced simply by reducing the cost of transport.

We must also look at how we arrange transport to the continent of Europe. There is a very strong case to be made for having a central location somewhere in the hinterland of the channel ports on which Irish truckers can converge and avail of a whole range of activities which are organised so that the various economies of scale which would result from such an enterprise could accrue to the benefit of the Irish State. If we cannot take our goods to the marketplace and sell them as competitively as those who produce them at the centre of the marketplace, we have a problem. That aspect of economic development alone is something that should be addressed.

We have sought the consensus necessary to do things like that. Simply building the roads in Ireland, improving them and putting in dual carriageways, running a motorway from Belfast through Dublin to Rosslare, will help; but it will not solve the problem. We are at risk now from competition from abroad, particularly from the United Kingdom. Carriers with lorries travelling from Europe down the motorways of the UK, coming to the ports of England, coming into Ireland and linking up with a further good network of roads will be in a position to wipe out many of the people here who trade on the home market. Competition works in both directions. If our network of roads becomes very effective for distributing foreign goods around the country and we leave our truckers and our exporters with all the disadvantages of the high cost of fuel and the high cost of excise duties on articulated trucks, not only will we not achieve the desired objective of exporting more to the UK and mainland Europe but we will find that the home market is taken from under our feet as well.

I am not talking about small sums of money. It costs 40 per cent more now to shift a metric tonne here than it does in the UK and that kind of competitive disadvantage can only result in UK traders taking a larger slice of our market if we improve our roads.

I intervene to advise Deputy Noonan that he has now four minutes left.

(Limerick East): I am merely developing some ideas that I proposed previously. I do not wish to unduly take up the time of the House.

Another area that is worth looking at is tourism. It is not possible for tourism to thrive if the cost of those consumer goods which people enjoy when on holiday is seriously out of line with prevailing costs elsewhere in Europe. If the price of drink, for example, is significantly beyond that which pertains in the UK, is several hundred per cent beyond what the holidaymaker in Spain could purchase it at, then those who like to drink when on holiday will not have Ireland at the top of their list; those who like to tour a country will not have Ireland at the top of their list if petrol costs are significantly higher; nor are those who like a bottle of wine at night going to put Ireland at the top of their list if there is a mark up of 1,000 per cent or 1,200 per cent on the bottle of wine in the supermarkets. It is a very simple idea to put, but doing anything about it depends on making some move towards the harmonisation of excise duties across the Community. I do not know what the Government's intentions are in this respect. We will have to harmonise. I suggest that we begin now, independent of the demands of Europe, by making decisions that will help our economic growth and help particular sectors.Again I appreciate we do not have massive resources. If we were to harmonise immediately it would lead to serious loss of revenue, but in these areas, for the benefit of certain industries like tourism, we should start making little moves to improve our competitiveness. Then we will be positioned for economic growth in 1992.

It is difficult to do this Bill justice in a very short period but I would like to commend it to the House. There is really only one problem that has to be addressed in terms of economic growth here, that is how we can produce more and sell more competitively. We should start by removing those obstacles which prevent us from doing that. When we think about that simple proposition I think we will find there is a large measure of agreement right through the House about how we should move. We should eliminate as far as possible the divisions in this Parliament which inhibit economic growth because when growth is prevented jobs are not only created but others are lost.

I am seriously worried that we are now organising a country where we will have stabilised the situation for three-quarters of our population, but will have written off the other quarter. Anyone in a job at the moment is reasonably well off, but the number on the live register is 240,000, and 100,000 persons have emigrated in the last three years. The micro economics of how to run a company which is a loss maker, making people redundant, cutting down on overheads and making it a good company for a smaller number of workers, can be applied to a country. We are on the way to doing that at the moment and we should stop to think about it. Certainly the situation has improved for about three-quarters of the people, but we are treating our unemployed and our emigrants as surplus to need. An expansion of the consensus which has served us well in dealing with the debt problem into some of the area suggested by Deputy John Bruton would be desirable and would be a major benefit in solving some of our economic problems.

I have listened with great interest to what Deputy Noonan has had to say in building upon, as he said, the arguments or dispositions which had already gone on in the various other submissions which have been made in the Finance Bill here this afternoon and building upon, as he saw it, the need for a political consensus which, of course, is the permeation of much of what is in this Bill and of what is happening in the country at large. I would find very little to quarrel with in what Deputy John Bruton has put forward in his Bill or indeed in some of the thoughts which were expressed here tonight by Deputy Michael Noonan. Per force I speak from a script because that is what is required but it would be interesting to carry on the to and fro in the atmosphere which has been conveyed by Deputy Noonan.

I understand the concern and interest that Deputy Bruton has expressed in the development of the Single European market. It is important that we as a nation are aware of the challenges and opportunities that will be ours on the total integration of the European market. It is of vital importance that our young people are adequately prepared to grasp the opportunities open to them in the context of the single market.

I will be addressing in particular the sections of the Bill which have a bearing on my own Department and the education implications of that. I presume other speakers will also devote themselves to their own particular areas of activity. In the areas of education I would be in agreement with much that was done by the previous administration. It appears that much of what we are doing would be also in agreement with the broad spectrum so there is not much cause for argument between us on the matter.

To ensure that educational and training programmes are relevant to current needs and requirements I have instituted dynamic processes of curriculum reform and development, following on what was undertaken by a previous Minister, at primary and post-primary levels and ongoing reviews of educational and training provisions in post compulsory and higher education sectors. These initiatives are necessary as, due to the accelerating rate of change in our society resulting from advances in science and technology, the requirements of the labour market are changing rapidly.

The Irish education system has a long tradition serving this country well. Indeed many foreign companies invest in this country because of the high educational standards and high calibre of our young people. That is not just a pious aspiration. Frequently one reads that.

To ensure that our school leavers have the requisite competencies and basic skills it is necessary that school-industry and higher education-industry links are developed and strengthened. Both industry and education must plan mechanisms to reduce the isolation of their respective worlds in order to improve the quality of education programmes and to eliminate any deficiences. Links between education and industry can provide the necessary motivation and encouragement for young people to improve their school performance, to develop a greater sense of civic responsibility and to become members of a flexible and adaptable workforce. From such a process the economy as well as the young people themselves will benefit.

I have always been greatly struck since I came into education by the need for it not to be seen as a sort of enclave on its own with great high walls around it and indeed previous Ministers, Deputy Bruton when he was Minister for Industry and Commerce, and also Deputy Noonan, have seen to that. The mechanisms set up to enable industry and education to interlink now must be strengthened and used much more frequently and much more productively so that young people, those who teach them and people working in and guiding industry will see that there is much to be gained from scrutiny of each other's departments' activities and how they can interlink and interface with one another to give of their best to each.

I would now like to refer to some of the details of the Bill relating to educational matters and proposed amendments to the Vocational Education Act, 1930, and the Higher Education Authority Act, 1971. I will deal with both of those, as they come under my jurisdiction, at the moment anyway.

I am particularly glad of the opportunity to speak on Deputy Bruton's proposal and amend the Vocational Education Act, 1930. The proposal at section 1 (1) (a) to extend the definition of "technical education" to include "contract work relating to assisting local industries in conducting such research and development work as may be beneficial both to the economic prosperty of the locality and to educational development in the locality" and the reference at section 1 (2) to "arrangements to allow Regional Technical Colleges and Colleges of Technology to make available research and personnel facilities for, and to encourage joint ventures with, industry", attempt to provide for an area of activity which has been of great concern for some time.

I have spoken on a number of occasions of the pool of highly qualified personnel with technical and professional skill and expertise in science, technology, business and other vital areas which is available in our colleges. This must be fully exploited if this country is to maximise its potential. As Deputy Noonan said, productivity must increase and we must gear ourselves to that. Otherwise we will lose the race. Our regional technical and other VEC colleges are particularly well placed to contribute towards the establishment and forestering of significant economic enterprises.The main teaching function of these colleges will of course remain — that is always the core of all educational enterprises — but over and above this main function I see it as essential that they expand their role in support of local and regional enterprise.

References have been made to perceived legal and structural difficulties in connection with developing further the research and consultancy involvement of VEC colleges. In line with the Government's strong commitment and support for the concept of college industry links I am anxious to facilitate the removal of any institutional or legislative barriers which might be a constraint. To this end I intend shortly to bring forward legislation which, while retaining the valuable VEC links, will allow the colleges to operate with considerably greater autonomy than at present. This legislation will also specifically permit them, in accordance with agreed policies and guidelines, to become statutorily involved in research and consultancy activities in support of local industry.

Colleges are already involved in valuable industry-linked activity. There are industrial liaison officers for all the regional technical colleges. Assistance towards the funding of these appointments is provided by EOLAS showing again the clear interaction between one Department and another. Among the functions of these ILOs are the promotion, fostering and establishment of links between the college, its departments and staff and industry and the promotion and facilitating of co-operative research and other joint projects. A further very significant development is the establishment of business incubator units at various RTCs. These units will enable the testing and development of new business ideas to take place in close proximity to the available expertise in the colleges.

Section 1 (1) (c) of the Bill requires me to report to both Houses of the Oireachtas before 30 September 1989 on proposals to improve the teaching of continental languages in all schools. Acquiring competence in foreign languages is not something that can happen by learning grammatical rules and memorising lists of words. In my generation that was how you learned foreign languages but it is much better now. Language learning involves the acquisition of a complex range of skills that can only be built up and refined by massive exposure to the target language in real life situations and prolonged practice in using that language as a medium of social interaction.

Foreign language learning poses different problems for different countries. It is perfectly plausible, for example, to expect children in European countries which are linguistic crossroads to acquire one or two or even more foreign languages.For those children exposure to and practice in using foreign languages are natural occurences generated by the social environment. It is quite a different matter for a country like Ireland, which is geographically isolated from the European mainland and which has no immediate contact with foreign languages. The word "immediate" occurs again and, again it holds true in this sense. There is no social or environmental stimulus to use a foreign language. Indeed, there is a negative motivation that comes from the perception that English is a universal medium of communication and that all other languages have limited utility. I suppose that is a hangover.

It is against this background that I should like to dwell for a moment on some of the measures that have been introduced in recent years in the post primary curriculum and in the teaching and testing of modern continental languages.I do this to dispel any idea that little or nothing has been done to equip young people to face the linguistic challenges of 1992. First of all the syllabi for modern languages have undergone radical reform. I am not claiming the halo for this because that has taken place under many Governments. The major change in this regard has been to shift the emphasis from the study of language as an academic exercise to the acquisition by the student of the essential language skills, namely aural and reading comprehension and oral and written expression. This has naturally involved the production of authentic language meterials so that the student comes into contact with the real living language in its natural context.

An immediate benefit from the new approach is the improved motivation of pupils who are now using the language, albeit in a simulated context, to convey what they want to say instead of analysing and parsing endlessly the structure of the language and making up contrived utterances to illustrate grammatical points. I should also point out in this regard that the new junior certificate will provide a second more modest level for those students who may only aspire to a basic competence.

In tandem with those changes the examinations have been reformed to reflect the thrust of these changes. We now have, for example, aural and oral examinations and the written examinations focus on the functional language rather than literature. There will always be a need in the study of any language to look at the literature component but our immediate concern is competency and the functional skills which must be acquired. It is my belief that out of the acquisition of the spoken and functional skills of languages will come an awareness in the young person of the need to develop an interest in a language. From that will develop an interest in the literature of the language.

This reform of the modern language syllabi and examinations has made formidable demands on teachers. They have had to work at improving their oral command of the target language, particularly in the registers used in everyday social interaction and they have had to familiarise themselves with life and events in the country of the language.

Despite the unfavourable economic climate an expanded programme of in-service courses in Ireland and abroad has been provided by my Department for teachers of modern languages to equip them for the challenges of the new approach. This in-service provision is being maintained and intensified.

I have also taken steps to diversify the provision of modern languages in our schools giving particular emphasis to the expansion of German. I have identified those schools which have teachers with the necessary qualifications to teach German or Spanish or Italian but who are not at present teaching any of those languages. On foot of this information I propose with effect from September, the next school year, to utilise this potential in a significant number of schools. I also propose to sanction additional teaching provision to bring about diversification. French, as we all know, already occupies a strong position in the schools and its standard, too, must be maintained.

The European Commission have drafted a programme called LINGUA to promote the teaching and learning of foreign languages. I was happy to be in a position at the meetings of EC Ministers for Education, meeting in Council, to strongly support their programme. Preparations for its introduction into schools and colleges in the 12 EC member states are well advanced. It is planned that the first phase of this programme will run for five years, 1990-94, with an estimated funding of some £192 million.

It is intended that Community funding will be available under the programme to assist pupil exchanges as well as providing for foreign language students and teachers to spend a period of time in the country whose language they are studying or teaching. Foreign language in business and industry will also be promoted. At Question Time last week I was asked about the shortcomings of ERASMUS. We have learned from those shortcomings and we will be seeking to offset them in the LINGUA programme.

I raised that question and I welcome the Minister's statement.

This is a timely and important programme for this country and I will be making every effort at European level to have a realistic programme with an adequate level of Community funding implemented as soon and as effectively as possible.

The LINGUA programme, in association with our own language initiatives, should result in a dramatic increase in the participation rate of young people studying foreign languages in our schools and colleges. But even more important will be the quantitative improvement in communication skills resulting from studying languages at school. Graduates from our schools and colleges will have the necessary technical, marketing and language skills to help industry and business enterprises achieve economic success in European markets and further afield.

In referring to the teaching of German I should like to correct a statement made on a radio programme on Saturday. One of the participants on that programme which deals with politics stated that only 100 post-primary schools here teach German. In fact, 266 post-primary schools teach German. Various points of view are put forward on that programme but I was anxious to correct that point. The figure I have given has increased from 160 two years ago and, with the advent of the special initiatives, I have no doubt it will increase further. I accept that that is not the complete picture and that every child in the country will not be learning two continental languages by 1992 but we are moving in that direction. We are making efforts to bring about a greater diversification of modern European languages.

In relation to the proposal for the introduction of a certificate of competence in modern continental languages open to both school students and adults, there is merit, certainly, in an approach to the teaching of languages based on graded levels of competence. However, major structural, pedagogical and logistical problems would be created in adapting our present system to adult needs and in allowing learners to advance from one level to another at their own pace. Moreover there would be a need for an authority to devise, administer, monitor and validate the system.

In so far as international exchanges are concerned the cultural agreements that exist between Ireland and a number of European countries already promote teacher and student exchanges. The latter are known as language assistant exchanges and are intended for trainee teachers of modern languages. In the immediate future, because of demographic trends it would appear desirable to concentrate on an expansion of the schemes for teacher exchanges. I am at present examining the possibilities in this regard, particularly in the context of the operation of the proposed LINGUA programme which has the matter of teacher exchange as one of its pivotal proposals.

In relation to the proposal to introduce modern continental languages in primary schools, I should say that the primary school curriculum is the subject of an overall review at present. I would expect to receive the report of the review body later this year.

Pending the outcome of this review, I do not have plans to introduce the teaching of modern continental languages in primary schools.

I now wish to turn to section 6 of the Bill which proposes certain amendments to the Higher Education Authority Act, 1971. Subsection 2 of this section proposes the amendment of section 3 of the 1971 Act so that the general functions of the Higher Education Authority would be extended to include the promotion of links between institutions of higher education and industry, trade and agriculture, by means of joint ventures and joint research.

I fully agree, to reply to Deputy Noonan, on the need to establish closer links between the world of higher education and the world of economic activity. Each has a lot to learn and gain from the other. The world of economic activity can become aware of, and benefit from, the skills and expertise available in higher education and can be assisted in developing new products and processes.

The world of higher education, on the other hand, can become more attuned to the skill needs of the world of economic activity and can ensure that its courses are designed to provide these skills. Closer links and greater co-operation between higher education and business and industry can help these sectors to become more productive, more cost-effective and more competitive. I would have no real difficulty with the proposal made in this subsection. However, I do feel that it should be left open as to how the links proposed could best be promoted and established and so I would be in favour of omitting the words "by means of joint ventures and joint research".

Subsection (3) (a) of this section proposes the amendment of section 6 (1) of the 1971 Act which provides that the higher Education Authority maintain a continuous review of the demand and need for higher education. The amendment in the Bill seeks to emphasise that special regard should be taken of the need to provide second chance part time education for those who have already spent seven years or more in the labour force and would require the Authority to advise the relevant Minister for Education on whether a proportion of places should be reserved for this purpose.

In some European countries and in the USA the demand for second-chance or adult education has increased dramatically.This is not yet the situation here and the third level institutions are coping with the present demand. As subsection (1) of section 6 of the 1971 Act has been left suitably broad I feel that the amendment proposed in Deputy Bruton's Bill is unnecessary since the existing powers of the Authority are not confined to full time and post-school education.

Subsection 3 (b) seeks to amend subsection (2) of section 6 of the 1971 Act, so that, in addition to recommending to the Minister the overall provision of places within the higher education system, having regard to the need to maintain a reasonable balance in student numbers between the institutions of higher education, the Authority would also have regard to the need to ensure that priority is given to those forms of higher education which offer the greatest prospects to students of gainful employment in Ireland and the need to promote effective practical links between industry, trade and agriculture. This latter part of the amendment is unnecessary since it would be covered by extending the general functions of the Authority to include the promotion of such links as proposed already in subsection 2 of this section.

I am satisfied that the institutions of higher education and the Higher Education Authority are doing everything possible to provide graduates who have the skills needed by the various sectors of economic activity. This is, well established by the HEA Report on First Destination of Award Recipients in Higher Education (1987). The report indicates that there was a large fall in the proportion of all respondents classified as seeking employment or as engaged in State-sponsored work experience schemes. I would share the Deputy's concern about the numbers of young graduates who must seek at least their initial employment abroad. But the Government are doing something about this. As I have said earlier, we have made great strides on the road to economic recovery. Our exports are up, our interest rates and inflation are down. The Government are committed to policies which will develop an environment conducive to economic progress. It is only by pursuing such policies that we can create productive jobs and it is by creating such jobs only that we can secure employment for our young graduates.

I feel that the balance across the disciplines in higher education is reasonably right. Accordingly, I do not see the need for the amendment being proposed.

At present a broadly-based interdepartmental group are investigating the whole area of third level education. That review group was mooted by the previous Government and established by us. I hope to receive their report next month. They have reviewed all aspects of the provision of third level education under the various subheads of their remit which I have enunciated here many times in answer to parliamentary questions. The result of their in-depth investigation into all of those matters could well complement much of the provisions of this Bill and certainly will point up some of the submissions I have made in the House this evening.

Subsection 4 of the section seeks to amend section 16 of the 1971 Act so that a committee will be appointed to prepare a report before 1 January 1990 on any duplication of facilities that may exist with a view to concentrating resources in centres of excellence in particular disciplines.

I have no great problem with what Deputy Bruton is proposing here. It is in all our interests to avoid unnecessary duplication but unlike Deputy Bruton, I would have to use and stress the word "unnecessary". Our higher education system, like any other arm of Government, must be as cost-effective, as efficient and productive as possible. It is for this reason that the Government established an interdepartmental committee to review the whole third-level education sector. For this reason it would be premature to consider legislative changes until this whole area can be reviewed in the light of the committee's report.

In subsection (5) Deputy Bruton is, in effect, proposing that the majority of members of the Higher Education Authority should be non-academic members. Indeed I have a certain sympathy with what he has in mind here.

However, consideration of these matters should await the report of the interdepartmental committee. Certainly I will bear in mind the matters raised by Deputy Bruton in this Bill at the appropriate time.

I might reiterate that I was very pleased to respond, in like manner, to the submissions put forward by various Deputies.I was present for Deputy Noonan's contribution which I found to be of a consensus-type nature. The Bill contains many provisions on which we are already engaged within the Department as a follow-on to various other initiatives undertaken by various Governments and which will be progressed further in the light of the provisions of this Bill put forward by Deputy Bruton.

The opportunity to speak on this Bill is especially welcome to those of us who, through pressure of time, were precluded from speaking on the debate on the national plan in this House last week.

I might begin by commending Deputy Bruton on having brought this comprehensive and far-reaching Bill before the House. It forces all of us to confront the issues facing our country in the run-up to 1992 in an open and coherent fashion. Let us hope that it will help to propel us towards coherent action.

Rather than range over the variety of issues addressed in this Bill I will confine my remarks to the areas dealing with education and deal also with regional planning as it relates specifically to the area I represent, that is Cork city. Deputy Bruton rightly emphasised the importance of bringing about educational change.

The acquisition of oral competence in at least two modern European languages is for the majority of our school leavers an absolute precondition to any real, active and fruitful participation by our people in the new integrated Europe. There is no disagreement about that from any side of the House. However, how it is to be achieved within the desired timescale is another story. The single greatest obstacle to progress is the absence of a sufficiency of language teachers competent to introduce additional languages in the classroom. Since recruitment of newly qualified teachers into the workforce has almost come to a standstill there is one way to tackle the problem only, that is to provide massive in-service training for practising teachers and to do so now. But that involves the expenditure of a lot of money. If we are really serious about tackling the problem resources must be made available. It is to be hoped that the LINGUA fund will be put to good use in providing the requisite number of teachers, of well motivated, keen people who, within a short time, will be in a position to introduce German, Spanish and Italian into our classrooms. In that respect I have been heartened by what the Minister had to say in the House this evening. We do have access to an infill of funds from that source. It is to be hoped that they will be used well and purposefully to enable us implement the start-up in our schools, providing German, Spanish and Italian on the scale prevailing conditions demand.

It is good to hear from the Minister that German is now being taught in 266 schools. However, that is a drop in the ocean when one considered the export potential on the German market for goods manufactured here. We must intensify and escalate our efforts and spare no energy in so doing. We must be single-minded in providing the resources that will enable us to achieve that goal. All sides of the House must combine in that effort.

With regard to the introduction of languages on a graded scale, I believe it is possible to introduce French into primary schools. I accept that the experience in Great Britain is not very encouraging to us in as much as that what happened in England in the sixties and seventies was, after ten years of effort, deemed to be a failure. Despite the fact that £1 million was provided from funds under the Nuffield Foundation to introduce French into primary schools in England the project failed, and it was so deemed in 1974, if my memory serves me right.

However, I do not think the British experience ought to inhibit us. Unlike children in Britain, children here are linguistically geared from a very early age to take on board a second language other than vernacular. That is one of the great benefits of having a second language — the Irish language, which essentially is meant to be our language — taught in primary schools. Irish children, unlike their British counterparts, are geared to thinking and expressing themselves in a second language and are geared to the skills of effectively using a second language from a very early age. Undoubtedly this helps them to take on board a third language at an earlier age than students who are schooled in a monolingual country. When people argue that the Irish language has had its day I remind them of that very real plus point which the Irish language has given to our students at this stage in their development.

Irish primary school children are much better geared to grappling with a language other than their vernacular from an early age and as such I would contend they are infinitely better prepared to take on board a modern European language at the age of nine, ten of 11 years of age. Of course, the only obstacle to doing that is the absence of sufficiently qualified teachers to introduce the language at that stage. This is a great pity because if our aim is for students to achieve oral competence in two modern European languages by the time they reach leaving certificate level we must be prepared to introduce one of those languages at a stage earlier than post primary education.Learning a language adequately is a long process and I believe with regard to modern European languages, that process ought to commence in primary schools.

I do not think it is beyond our capability to introduce French at the senior standards of primary school with a view to introducing German, Spanish or Italian, as the case may be, at the post junior certificate examination stage, and following that through so that by the time students reach leaving certificate stage all of them will have an oral competence in two modern European languages as well as having a good conversational competence in both Irish and English. Languages nourish and help one another and I know from experience that in schools where there is a range of languages the students are equally good at Irish, English, German or French.

We must not go for the lowest common denominator when we talk about the introduction of additional languages: we must take note of what we have, value what we have and build on that. If we could provide the in-service training for our teachers to enable them to introduce French at primary level we could, as I said, introduce it at 15 years of age and upwards so that we could achieve the target mentioned by Deputy Bruton in this Bill. I do not think this would be beyond our capability and this is what we ought to be aiming for.

It was very heartening to read in one of today's newspapers the results of a survey carried out on behalf of the European Parliament Information Office. That survey showed that second level teachers of all groups in Irish society are highest among those who favour closer integration with Europe. This is very heartening. Ninety seven per cent of all second level teachers polled considered that a European dimension ought to be included in all second level education. The will is there — and the Minister for Education must take note of this — and what teachers are clearly saying is "Give us the tools and we will do the job".

The teaching of European languages must not be left to the schools alone; other supporting initiatives will have to be taken. Summer colleges here and student exchange between member countries must be organised on a vastly increased scale. Much of the time currently spent on grinds, duplicating work which is already well covered in mainstream education, must now be directed towards language learning. Parents would be much better advised — and the career prospects of their children would be much better enhanced as a result — if they spent more time and money on giving their children an opportunity out of school to learn modern European languages than what is happening at present when much time is spent duplicating work that has already been well and adequately taught in mainstream education.Parents would be well advised to think in that direction.

I was heartened to discover today that the director of the Euro College, which is a private venture, who had planned for 800 places in her Euro College next summer, has already had applications for places for more than 1,000 children who want to take part in the summer courses in her colleges located throughout the country, such is the demand from parents who want their children to gain some kind of competence in modern European languages. That demand must be met.

Adult education must also be harnessed to the campaign to provide an environment where all of us, young and old, become more proficient in speaking European languages. Television must also be used to provide French and German programmes nationwide. This is already being effectively done in Cork where TV5 on multi-channel has an audience of more than 14 per cent of all the station's audience. When there was a breakdown in the multi-channel for some technical reason or other there was an outcry from parents and teachers alike as to why the French programmes were not going out on multi-channel. There is no doubt there is a demand for European languages and this demand can be met in a variety of ways outside school. One of the mistakes we made in regard to the Irish language is that we put too much of a burden on schools and did not match that with parallel efforts outside school. Let us not make the same mistake in relation to the introduction and teaching of modern European languages.

The media must reflect more accurately the new drive towards multi-lingualism.God knows there is little enough written in Irish in any of our newspapers, even those regarded as being serious newspapers. Would it not be great if some day we woke up to find something reported in French or in German? Suppose they started reporting a football match or an all-Ireland final. We would all know the story but despite that we would still have to read about it the following morning in our newspapers. Would it not be great if somebody had the initiative to write about it even partly in French, Italian or German? That would be a great attempt to bolster what I hope will happen in our schools and it is not beyond——

There has been a big improvement in some of the reports.

Yes, and there are reports that are excellent, for example, those by Con Houlihan. Much has been said about modern European languages. If we could put even a fraction of that into action we would not have any problems.

The imminence of 1992 calls for a number of other urgent initiatives on the part of our educational institutions if the people of this country are to reap full benefit from the opportunities that the integrated European market will present. Given resources in key faculty areas the third level colleges are well placed to act as catalysts for growth and development. I speak especially here of University College Cork and the role that college is capable of playing in the development of a dynamic food industry with its capacity to generate thousands of jobs in developing, processing, packaging and marketing food products as we stand on the threshold of a consumer market of 320 million people.

Cork has a fine faculty of food and technology. Since its inception in 1926 it has played a major role in developing a food industry in this country. For the modest outlay of £5 million, UCC now has the capacity to transform our agricultural and food industry from commodity and intervention-type product, with all its inherent waste, and turn it into a consumer orientated industry with all its potential for job creation and wealth creation. It is nothing short of a scandal that, as I speak here this evening, the shelves of the shops, supermarkets and food halls of this country are filled with food that is produced, processed and packaged in countries outside Ireland thereby creating thousands of jobs for people other than our own. This is the ultimate betrayal of our young people who are hungry for jobs. It must be corrected in the context of the opening of the Single Market.

The emphasis in the future must be on research aimed at increasing the production of consumer products with high added value allied to strong marketing in the language of the purchaser. This will inevitably increase prices for the primary producer and will also create thousands of badly needed jobs.

Cork sits in the heart of some of the finest agricultural land in Europe. It also has one of the finest deep water ports in Europe with a potential for an export trade. University College Cork has the tradition and the skill in the field of food, science and technology. Given the necessary resources it has the ability to revolutionarise and galvanise the food industry. Cork must become not just the food capital of Ireland but the food capital of Europe; it can and must be done.

University College Cork also has an enormous potential for generating economic growth through the expansion of its national micro-electronic research centre. The growth of the Irish electronics industry is one of the major success stories of the past 20 years. In 1987 32,300 people were employed in this fledgling industry which now accounts for 27 per cent of our total manufacturing output. With proper increased investment this industry has enormous potential for growth and for employment opportunities to keep our highly qualified young graduates at home where they can earn their living and generate spending power and wealth for their own people. The very legitimate request of this centre for enhanced investment to expand its activities must be met in the context of the Structural Funds.

I fully support the measure advocated in this Bill by Deputy Bruton aimed at forging new links and strengthening old links between education and industry. In this respect the proposal contained in the Government's national plan to initiate a resource centre in which FÁS, University College Cork, the Regional Technical College in Cork and the IDA will cooperate is most welcome and should be ardently supported. I hope that will be brought forward sooner rather than later.

I make no apology for speaking up for my own sub-region in the context of this debate. I represent a city that is part of a sub-region uniquely fitted for priority consideration under the terms set out in regard to the Structural Funds, an area deeply disadvantaged because of its location and the farthest removed from the centre of the European market and which is further disadvantaged because of its failure to lobby successfully for its fair share of the national cake in the last ten years. Yet this is an area rich in national assets. It has a large reservoir of energetic, enterprising, well educated young people; recipients of the largest single educational investment ever made in the history of this country, an investment put there by the dedication of our taxpayers and well nurtured by a group of dedicated teachers in a major act of faith in the future of this country. It also has a fine pool of industrial workers recently made redundant because of the simultaneous collapse of so many big industries but with a range of valuable industrial skills that now stand to go to seed. Are these fine workers to be left to rot on the scrap heap or could they, with proper policy decisions, be put to work in new manufacturing industries? I contend that they could.

We have a fine port, a thriving developing airport, a good city road structure and housing at prices which young couples can still afford. We are located at the gateway of some of the most sought after tourist terrain in Ireland and tourism is predicted to be the greatest single growth industry in the years ahead. In this respect I must remind the Government that we have no direct ferry service to the UK. There is no sign of any real Government commitment to putting such a service in place.

There is £1 million available.

There is £1 million available but there is no boat and there is no ferry so that is just about as valid as my making a marriage proposal to the Ayatollah at this moment.

The Government have had the money on the table for months.

The Ayatollah might snap you up.

There is no evidence that any investigation is being carried out at official level to establish the necessity of that link between the United Kingdom and Europe and the most remote but potentially productive area for tourist development in the whole of the single market area. I am not going to be put off by being told by the Minister of State at the Department of Finance that there is £1 million available. That is of no benefit to the region.

So you do not want it.

What we want is a service that is effective and cost effective and we want the Government to take the matter seriously — something they have failed to do in the past, which others, too, perhaps, have failed to do in the past — and on behalf of the region to take all the steps necessary to ensure that a boat will operate from that region. If that is not done all this talk about developing the tourist industry and multiplying jobs is only hogwash. Action counts but not words. When there is a boat on the route and the service is active again, then the Minister will be in a position to talk but until then he is not in a position to talk.

The Government put the money up.

What is now needed is a set of new initiatives and key investments in areas that I have mentioned to set Cork on a new course of job and wealth creation and to begin the upward spiral that is needed. That is all I am asking. This can be done in the context of the proper strategic application of Structural Funds. Putting a road from Dublin to Rosslare is of no benefit to the people in the south-west. I am arguing for our fair share of Structural Funds and then proper policy making to ensure that those Structural Funds are spent strategically to generate the maximum number of jobs and real wealth in the area. That is a reasonable request. The process of preparing for 1992 is the last opportunity we have to lift ourselves out of the economic and social mediocrity that has beset this country for the last ten years. I want to see Cork and its regions playing a key role, and so I support the broad thrust of this Bill.

This Bill, if we are to believe the Explanatory Memorandum, is designed as an integrated set of legislative measures to prepare the economy for the single European market. I was discussing this Bill with a civil servant friend some years back and he described its proposals as being the by-product of a fertile mind which found itself armed with a dictaphone in an idle moment. There is a lot in it but not a lot to be said for it.

It takes a while to consume and absorb it.

It does, and I will give Deputy Bruton this — he has trawled wide. The Deputy has come up with some minnows but he has trawled wide.

Thinking is a form of national crime in this country, is it not?

The Deputy would know more about that than I, given the grouping to which she has aligned herself.

Section 1 of the Bill amends the Vocational Act. In many ways this section is welcome in that it gives us an opportunity to consider the whole concept of education and industry links and because it also gives us time to concern ourselves with the teaching of continental languages. The Minister for Education spoke tonight on this section and I cannot add to what she said but I will make a few observations. I commend Deputy Quill for the point she made that because we teach Irish children two languages from a very early age, they are attuned to the fact that there are alternative ways of expressing themselves. The Deputy's point is very valid. Those people who denigrate the teaching of Irish as a waste of time should attend to this point. If nothing else, every pound that has been spent on Irish has given our children and ourselves the benefit from the earliest age of knowing that we can express things using different languages.

Another point on which Deputy Quill touched and which I want to raise is that when we are discussing the importance of language and the importance of developing a capacity to express ourselves in day-to-day situations in languages, we should look at the way in which our national radio and television channels address this issue. Those of us who live outside the Cork region do not have the opportunity, except when visiting Cork, of seeing the excellent Channel 5 presentation of continental language programmes. This is a great shame. If RTE 2 were to use the spare time they obviously have to any effect, they should use it by picking up news digests from both the German and French channels and rebroadcasting them. It could not be costly and it would be extremely beneficial, particularly as people have an innate grasp of what is being discussed in any current affairs programme irrespective of the language. Those who are fortunate to have language skills would have their skills improved if they could look at current affairs programmes in an alternative language, and those of us who are still stumbling in an alternative language would have the opportunity of picking up some additional vocabulary.

In relation to the role of education in the context of 1992 and further European integration, it pains me a little that some of the contributions here have unnecessarily focused purely on the economic end of education, particularly when they were discussing language. We have discussed language in the context of commerce and of economic development. Obviously it is appropriate that we should do so but there is also an intrinsic value in language opening our minds to alternative culture. That aspect is also worthy of emphasis.

The proposals, in so far as they relate to the affairs of the VECs and RTCs generally, are a little premature. After all, the Minister for Education is at present finalising new legislation. Given that we are undertaking an overall review of third level education, Deputy Bruton's proposals, in so far as they relate to the Higher Education Act, are also premature.However, the debate that has focused on this aspect has been very welcome in that we are for once focusing on the value of third level education and on the industry/third level linkages. This is something I welcome as a relatively new departure in third level education here. Members will be aware that today the institution with which I am associated, UCD, has announced a further initiative in the context of university/industry linkages.The job is being well done by the third level institutions. The proposals here are premature only in that there is a review in hand and that is the most appropriate vehicle for producing suggestions here.

I condemn the proposals in section 2 which attempt to amend the Central Bank Act. Inter alia, it provides that the bank should take into account the need to create employment. One would assume that all the State institutions were conscious of all the dimensions of their activities.The fact remains that the Central Bank Act, 1942, provides a general function for the bank to protect the integrity of the currency and control credit and in that context to secure the welfare of the people. It is superfluous to put this provision into law. It seems unwise in that it will focus the bank excessively on one of its multiple objectives. I cannot understand the general value of this.

Sections 3, 4 and 5 deal with the planning and development laws more or less. There is no doubt that we need to look at the developing and planning laws and to re-emphasise the way planning and legislation should operate. Unfortunately there is far too much emphasis on physical planning in the way that Act is operated and far too little emphasis on development. The Planning and Development Act, after all, has two sides. It attempts to deal with physical planning and development. It attempts, in the words of Seán Lemass, to create in the local authorities a set of locally oriented development corporations. There is no doubt that we need to speed up the planning process and that spurious objections which are introduced in planning and which can sometimes prohibit development need to be addressed. The Minister for the Environment has already dealt with this aspect in some detail.

Section 5 deals with the by-laws and approval of by-laws being required within a certain period. One of the aspects of planning with which any of us involved in this area is familiar is the problems that exist with by-laws. Many of our by-laws are extraordinarily out of date. Recently I was looking at the by-laws for the township of Bray. These were drawn up in the early years of the nineteenth century. If you strictly applied the by-laws, there is no doubt that many of the existing developments would be illegal. I wonder at the wisdom of some of these by-laws. They serve a purpose, but clearly what is needed in the planning and development context is a strict and urgent review of the by-laws, a very severe degree of editing. Many of the by-laws on our Statute Book, far from aiding and assisting the planning and development role of the local authorities, hamper planning and development. An urgent review is needed because many of the by-laws have long since outlived their usefulness.

The Minister for Education has already dealt with the education sections and I do not intend to focus on them. Section 7 amends the European Communities Act. It requires the Government to report at regular periods, quarterly, to each House of the Oireachtas and to a joint committee of the Oireachtas. I wonder at the wisdom and, indeed, the usefulness of this. We have at the moment an Oireachtas joint committee, established consequent upon the Act, charged with the task of overseeing how we relate domestic legislation to legislation coming forward from the EC. It strikes me that an extension of their terms of reference would not be required to expand their activities to focusing specifically on a movement towards the creation of a Single European Market. I am not a member of that committee, but my recollection of their terms of reference would be that this objective in section 7 could well be achieved, in any event, within the context of the existing committee work.

The Government are vitally aware of the importance of communications in the general context of 1992. While the proposal contained in Deputy Bruton's Bill focuses on our discussing the issue of 1992 with each other, its strikes me that a far more fruitful focus for discussion on 1992 would be, not to be talking amongst ourselves but with our partners in Europe. In this regard, Deputies who have focussed on the recent development plan have been disingenuous in the extreme in that they have not recognised adequately the institutional framework which the Government are at the moment putting into operation. The Government are deeply conscious of the importance of the development plan as a vehicle for increasing Structural Funds aid but also for integrating our economy into the new Europe. They have acknowledged the importance of communications in this regard by establishing a unique relationship in the context of the plan with the European Commission.

The Commission has, on its side, established a task force of relevant Commissioners and Directors General, headed by President Delors. This is paralleled on the Irish side by a committee of Government Ministers and secretaries headed by the Taoiseach. This seems a far more logical communications forum for discussing how we integrate ourselves into the Europe of post-1992. I cannot see the purpose of section 7 or what precisely it will serve. It strikes me that the institutional arrangements which I have outlined here, together with the institutional arrangements set up for the preparation of the development plan, were a far more logical way of utilising energy and time.

Sections 8, 9, 10 and 11 are interesting. Section 8 deals with the road fund and sections 9, 10 and 11 with taxation matters.In the context of the road fund and the National Roads Authority, I cannot understand the purpose of the Bill. All that Deputy Bruton is grasping here is something which Government have already in train. The Government have already indicated their intentions for the National Roads Authority. A road budget for the next five years is already provided in the context of the plan, so precisely what is aimed at here is difficult to establish.

Sections 9, 10 and 11 focus on tax incentives. Basically, the intention of these sections is to extend existing schemes. There is a proposal for additional tax relief on interest paid by an individual for a loan raised with regard to a business expansion scheme. Perhaps Deputy Bruton would bite his tongue a little now, given all that has been said in recent times about the BES. There is a further proposal for additional tax relief to be granted to farmers letting their land under a long lease and there are proposals to modify restrictions on tax relief for investment in research and development. The Minister for Finance when speaking on this set of proposals made a very valid point about this ad hoc set of suggestions.

One of the problems that we in Ireland face is that, as we all know, our tax base is far too narrow. Over the years it has been progressively narrowed by ad hoc tax incentives, most of which are good in themselves but taken as a whole, sometimes achieve nothing or, at worst, actually contradict each other.

There is a danger in ad hocery when we discuss tax incentives. There is a danger in having a multiplicity of tax incentive schemes. That is precisely where this Bill is heading. What is being advocated here is the antithesis of taxation reform. After all, taxation reform is an issue with which Deputy Bruton is said to be familiar. It is an issue about which he is said to be concerned. Yet he is proposing here the worst kind of taxation ad hocery. This is to be condemned.I do not see the value of what he is proposing and do not for a moment accept that anybody who has seriously studied this Bill could give any degree of support to this set of proposals.

The remaining sections of the Bill are equally ill-considered. Section 12, which deals with the Industrial Development Act, is a very questionable piece of legislation.It is proposed, for example, that a new section be inserted in the primary Industrial Development Act providing the inclusion of targets for performance to be achieved up to the year 2000. I do not think Deputy Bruton seriously believes that it is possible to establish realistic targets beyond next year or the year after. Nobody in this House believes that that is the case. I cannot for the life of me understand what he aims at doing here. I am not opposed to the concept of establishing targets. In fact, I have argued frequently that targets which have been set for job development are unrealistic and that the type of figures that come from the IDA from time to time are phoney. I say that coming from County Wicklow where, over the years, we have had a lower delivery of jobs by the IDA than we could reasonably expect. I cannot understand how anybody with Deputy Bruton's fine mind could suggest that this ludicrous proposal has anything to commend it.

I shall be very brief as time is marching on. Section 13 amends the National Development Corporation Act. When you read the body of the proposal it is an equally ludicrous proposal. It suggests that there should be a regionalisation of the activities of the NDC. No Deputy in the House can believe seriously that the NDC's operations are on such a scale that they need to be subdivided by sector, by region or whatever. The NDC's activities are of such a narrow scale that it would dissipate them if we were to try to create a regional element.

Section 14 has already been discussed at great length. I made a contribution on the concept of moving Articles 85 and 86 of the Treaty of Rome directly into domestic law, but given that the Fair Trade Commission is undertaking a study in this regard — and I made this point on the last occassion we debated this, this, like so many other proposals in the Bill, is premature.

I must interrupt the Deputy and ask him to move the adjournment.

As I said at the outset, the Bill is interesting but it is hardly workable.

Debate adjourned.

Téimid ar aghaidh anois go Uimhir a 8. Glaoim ar an Aire. Tuigim go bhfuil an tAire Stáit, An Teachta Geoghegan-Quinn anseo in áit an Tánaiste.

I must advise the Minister that, in accordance with an order of the House, it will be our pleasure to listen to her while she delivers her speech in 20 minutes.

Top
Share