asked the Minister for the Environment if, in anticipation of the establishment of the Environmental Protection Agency by way of legislation, he will outline the interim steps, if any, he proposes to take, including the recruitment of specialist personnel required to operate the agency; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
Ceisteanna—Questions Oral Answers. - Environmental Protection Agency.
9.
I have already announced that, pending the enactment of the legislation, it is proposed to put arrangements in place so that some aspects of the work of the agency can be progressed as soon as possible. I have in mind, for example, that work would be undertaken in relation to development of information and computer systems, the preparation of proposals in relation to laboratory facilities and other equipment needs, the development of organisational arrangements and staff structures, and so on. Preparatory work of this kind should enable the agency to become operational with the minimum of delay after the necessary legislation is enacted.
Would the Minister agree that the much-vaunted Environmental Protection Agency announced in the GIS statement on 5 December is nothing more than a jazzed up poor man's An Foras Forbartha which will be staffed in the main by people seconded from the local authorities and Eolas? It has an initial funding of £500,000 and all that can be done in the interim is to make arrangements for the transfer or secondment of staff away from the coal face at local authority level where already——
Let us proceed by way of supplementary question, not by way of statement.
Is it not true that the only thing the Minister can do is make arrangements to transfer and second staff from local authorities who are already understaffed?
I do not accept the Deputy's analysis of the statement of 5 December. With the exception of Members of this House, that statement was widely applauded by all the environmental groups. I wish Deputies would support the agency as proposed by the Government. The practice of publishing proposals initially approved by the Government is unusual and it has been done to give the maximum information to Members of this House and to the public generally. It is not true that the agency's budget will be £500,000. In the 1990 Estimates £500,000 has been provided for the initial start-up costs but additional money will be made available. Many of the staff will be recruited from the State sector. We do not want to duplicate. Where we have good staff we will take them in to work for the agency and if necessary additional staff will be recruited elsewhere.
Would the Minister not agree that local authorities are grossly understaffed in terms of monitoring and policing effluent problems in the agricultural area, for example, and that it is ludicrous to talk of taking staff away from local authorities?
We have not spoken about taking staff away from local authorities. We have said we will use local authority staff to work on behalf of the agency. I do not accept that local authorities are grossly understaffed and that this is the reason they are unable to enforce and monitor the environmental laws.
Can the Minister tell the House the date when the Government will produce their own legislation, having regard to the Government's opposing a Private Members' Bill in this area on the basis that they would produce a Bill? Will the Government Bill be published in January or February next?
I am not in a position to say when the Government Bill will be produced but the agency will be operating in 1990.
We know that the heads of the Bill have not been circulated. In view of the inordinate delay in the bringing forward of this legislation, will the Minister not take a leaf out of the senior Minister's book and establish the Environmental Protection Agency on an interim basis, as was done in the case of the National Roads Authority, so that some of the work can be properly initiated?
We indicated on 5 December that we are considering the possibility of making interim arrangements such as suggested. Work is progressing on the preparation of the heads of the Bill and they will be ready shortly.
I understand the Minister to say that interim arrangements are being made to enable the agency to be established as soon as possible after the enactment of the legislation. What about her statement at the press conference that the agency would be established on an ad hoc or interim basis prior to the enactment of the legislation?
I reiterate what was said at the press conference, that interim arrangements will be made in advance of the legislation being enacted. That will be the case.
The agency will not be established?
Mr. Shatter rose.
Next question please, Question No. 10.
I wish to raise a point of order, I am entitled to do that.
Question No. 10 has been called.
I am entitled to raise a point of order.
No, Deputy I will not hear a point of order.
I am entitled to raise a point of order.
The Deputy is not entitled to disrupt the Chair in this fashion.
Perhaps, Sir, you would let me raise the point of order?
What is it?
If you would allow me, Sir, to raise a point of order——
I resent the Deputy's intervention in this fashion. It is clearly to frustrate my ruling on this matter.
If the Chair allows me make the point of order, I will make it. It concerns Question No. 9 which we have just dealt with. I am glad we dealt with it——
What is the point of order?
I would like to draw your attention, Sir, to Question No. 9 which relates to a matter we debated in this House on Tuesday and Wednesday of this week. During the course of the past two weeks I have had questions disallowed on the basis that the matter had been discussed on the Adjourment in the past six months.
If the Deputy had raised that matter with me, I could have given him a considered reply.
One of the reasons for disorder in the House is that the Chair does not allow Deputies to raise points of order.
There are some Deputies who raise points of order which transpire to be points of disorder.
This is a legitimate point of order.
If the Deputy feels aggrieved in respect of my ruling on the matter I will communicate with him. However, the Deputy gave me no notice of this matter.
I have no objection to the question being taken. I am merely seeking clarification as to why it is apparently correct to raise a question today within 24 hours of the matter being debated in this House when other matters that have been dealt with on the Adjournment have been ruled out of order.
I assume there were good and cogent reasons as to why your questions were disallowed but——
They were disallowed on the basis that the matter had been discussed on the Adjournment.
——in any event I will look into the matter.
The subject matter of today's question was discussed during Private Members' time.
I now call Question No. 10.