Vol. 394 No. 8
4 Mr. Taylor asked the Taoiseach whether the Government have any proposals to purchase, lease or acquire an alternative or additional jet plane for use by members of the Government; the nature of such proposals; the estimated cost thereof; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
5 Mr. Dukes asked the Taoiseach the reason it was considered necessary for the Government to lease a jet aircraft with transatlantic range for the first half of 1990 and where Air Corps flight crew received training and type certification for the aircraft.
6 Mr. R. Bruton asked the Taoiseach the cost to the Government of providing an extra jet for the duration of the EC Presidency; the terms on which this service has been obtained; and the extent to which the Government will be reimbursed for the cost.
I propose to take Questions Nos. 4, 5 and 6 together. A Gulfstream III jet aircraft has been leased for a six month period up to 30 June, 1990 from Gulfstream Aerospace Corporation, USA to assist in transport duties during the Irish Presidency of the European Communities. The aircraft will be operated by the Air Corps during the period of the lease.
Air Corps pilots have undergone a ground school course and flight training provided by Flight Safety International, at Savannah, Georgia, USA specifically for the operation of the Gulfstream III aircraft.
It would be contrary to established practice and the conventions of commercial confidentiality to give details of the contract price for the lease of the aircraft. However the overall cost of operating the aircraft for the six months including training, fuel, insurance, registration of aircraft etc. will be approximately £1.3 million. No reimbursement of this cost is expected.
The decision to charter this aircraft for the duration of the European Presidency was taken on the grounds of efficiency and flexibility, having regard to the pace of work and travel necessitated by the pressures of international diplomacy. It would be impossible for Ministers and officials to meet the very demanding schedule of meetings with one aircraft only. Another aircraft of greater passenger capacity and operating range is without question essential in the light of the increasing role of the European Presidency in recent times.
Is it the case——
Sorry, I must call Deputy Taylor who has tabled Question No. 4.
Having regard to the fact that the Government already have one jet plane at their disposal, that airlines out of this country operate a very extensive service to the European Community, that independent reports show that there are upwards of one million people here living in a state of poverty, and that the health services here are in a decimated condition, would the Taoiseach agree that it is nothing short of a scandal that £1.3 million is expended on providing a second jet plane and that this amounts to little more than an ego trip for the Taoiseach and his Ministers?
Hear, hear.
No, I do not agree. First, the aircraft we already had at the disposal of the Government and officials, before the Presidency started at all, was constantly in the air and was no longer able to cope with the needs of the situation.
Rather like the Taoiseach himself.
The situation, as any reasonable Deputy would recognise, required an additional facility. In present-day circumstances it is not valid to think of this only in terms of the Community. I could give the Deputy an outline of the trip the Minister for Foreign Affairs will have to take in a few weeks time which will bring him to Ottawa, from Ottawa to Singapore, to Brunei, to Bombay, to Cairo.
He is not going on the Government jet. He will be going on scheduled airlines.
All this is within a matter of a few days.
Let us hear the Taoiseach without interruptions.
There is no way in which the Minister for Foreign Affairs could complete that voyage in the time in which he has to do it without this additional facility.
Is he taking his pair with him?
Furthermore, my own view is that because of the additional passenger capacity of this jet in that it can take a reasonably large complement of Ministers and officials, it will result in an economy to the State rather than the opposite.
Why do the EC not pay for it?
I have a series of concerns about this issue. Could the Taoiseach tell me whether it is the case that procurement of this Gulfstream III jet aircraft was handled by the Department of Transport and Tourism rather than the Department of Defence which, I take it, would be the normal procedure? Could the Taoiseach also confirm that the fee that would be payable to the finder of an aircraft in cases like this would be between £60,000 and £70,000 and that the person who initially found the aircraft is a Mr. Bob Manson who has recently been appointed to the board——
We should not refer to personalities in this matter.
I am seeking to establish information.
This is public money.
Is it true that the original specification for the procurement was written so as to produce an answer in the form of a Gulfstream III jet aircraft? Could the Taoiseach then confirm to me that the aircraft when first acquired was found, on examination by Air Corps technicians, to have a log book that did not square with its history, and was subsequently found to have been involved in an accident previous to that? Could the Taoiseach then confirm that the aircraft now in use is one that has been made available by the Gulfstream Corporation and, is that the reason the Government have, so far, allowed no photograph of the aircraft to appear in the public press?
Where is the public money going to?
Not on photographers anyway.
The arrangements for the leasing of this aircraft were made by the Department of Tourism and Transport.
Why?
Because it was regarded as the best possible way of doing it commercially.
Rubbish.
The Taoiseach should be allowed to reply in his own fashion.
This is a perfectly straightforward commercial transaction by the State through the agency of the Department of Tourism and Transport which was the best Department to investigate the type of aircraft we wanted and to get it on the best possible terms.
It does not operate a single aircraft.
I reject all the insinuations made by Deputy Dukes in this regard which are, as usual, without foundation. This is, in my view, an absolute necessity if we are to attempt to carry out our Presidency in the way we should, having regard to the worldwide implications of the Presidency duties these days. Second, I am quite convinced that, taking everything into account, this will result in an economy to the State over the six-month period. It is leased for six months and not a moment longer, and it is entirely in accordance with the best interests of this State to enable us to do a good job in the Presidency.
Could the Taoiseach tell me if he is aware of how many kinds of aircraft commercially available today would fit the kind of specifications he has in mind? I can tell him for free. There are at least three. Could the Taoiseach also confirm whether it is the case, as I have been informed, that the original aircraft found turned out to have been damaged in an accident, that that is not the aircraft now in use, and that the one now in use has been made available by the Gulfstream Corporation? Is all of that the reason the rest of the grand public who are paying for this aircraft have seen only one small photograph of this aircraft in one newspaper when we would normally have expected the Taoiseach, with his usual style and panache, to have an official unveiling of this aircraft in Baldonnel or Dublin Airport?
I can only repeat to the House that the Government considered this matter carefully. There was no wish whatsoever on our part to engage in any unnecessary expenditure. Having gone into the whole situation and having got quotations in respect of a fair number of aircraft we decided that this was the best, most economic aircraft we could have and we considered that it was absolutely essential for our purposes. I am quite satisfied that the Department of Tourism and Transport went through all the appropriate commercial procedures to get the best possible bargain——
Answer the question.
The barracking should cease.
Answer the question.
The Deputy can take all the photographs he likes.
Order, please. There are a number of Deputies offering.
I cannot call them now. I will call Deputy Taylor for a final supplementary after Deputy Dukes.
Will the Taoiseach answer this simple question? Is the aircraft now in use the one that was originally supplied or was the one originally supplied found to have been involved in an accident? Yes or no?
The aircraft, as I understand it, is the aircraft we have, the aircraft we looked for. A number of suggestions were put up. They were all examined in detail by the Department of Tourism and Transport who were the most expert Department available to us for this purpose.
Is it the original aircraft?
This aircraft we have now chartered suits our purposes and, in my view, is both necessary and economic and I regard all this attempt by Deputy Dukes to suggest anything else as just pure rubbish.
I am calling Deputy Mervyn Taylor for a final supplementary.
All I want to know is, is this aircraft the one that was originally provided or not and, if not, why?
Deputy Dukes has had a fair innings on this question.
I have been offering for some time.
I am sorry, Deputy O'Keeffe. I am calling Deputy Taylor for a final supplementary.
Will the Taoiseach confirm, if such be the case, that the figure of £1.3 million which he quoted includes the leasing cost of the aircraft as well as the other expenses of running it?
Yes, it is the whole.
Would the Taoiseach not agree that our national airline, Aer Lingus, operates a first-class and frequent service to all the key European destinations the Taoiseach and his Ministers would need to visit during the course of the Presidency, that they would be more than happy to accommodate the Taoiseach, Ministers and staff in getting to those destinations, and that there is a plethora of connections to all other European cities they would need to visit? In the context of the poverty in the country and the fact that £1.3 million could do so much for so many families who are more concerned about bread and butter on the table——
The Deputy is indulging in repetition.
——than in riding by private jet——
That is a specious argument. There is no way in which Ministers, and particularly the Minister for Foreign Affairs, could carry out the almost impossible schedule of commitments he has around the world as President of the General Affairs Council, through normal scheduled flights.
What did the previous President do?
Next question, please.
I gave one schedule he has coming up very shortly which is packed into three or four days and which will take him from this country to London, Ottawa, the Far East and back to Brussels. There is no way Aer Lingus or any other airline could facilitate him in that very demanding journey.
Rubbish.
I want to repeat that I believe when one considers the capacity of this aircraft to take Ministers and their officials that not alone will it prove to be a practical and expedient proposition but it will also prove to be very economical. I want to point out to the Deputy that for instance, when we went to the Strasbourg Summit this year the Army jet we used could only take four or five people to the Summit and the rest of the party, which was considerable, had to travel by scheduled airlines the day before. This proved to be very inefficient and wasteful. I believe that any sensible or reasonable person looking at the hiring of this plane by us for the purpose of the Presidency, and for no other purpose, will agree that it is a very sensible proposition.
Question No. 7, please.
A Cheann Comhairle——
I have called the next question.
I have been waiting to ask one supplementary.
That may be so——
May I ask one supplementary? I have been here for half an hour.
You have indeed.
Sorry, Deputy.
I do not accept that this is fair play. Arising from the Taoiseach's reply, may I ask——
I will not allow the Deputy——
You will not allow me to do anything. I want to ask a supplementary question.
I have dwelt overlong on the last question. I have called the next question, and so it shall be.
I have been signalling to you since the start of this question that I wanted to ask a supplementary.
That may be so——
I am now asking you if I may raise with the Taoiseach a question arising from his comments.
Deputy O'Keeffe will now resume his seat.
This is totally unfair.
