Dáil Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 6 Mar 1990

Vol. 396 No. 6

Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - EC Grant Aid.

John Bruton

Question:

14 Mr. J. Bruton asked the Minister for Education if any vocational education committee are obtaining grant aid directly from the EC rather than through her Department for educational or training purposes; if so, if she will give details of same; the arrangements for the auditing of the accounts for the expenditure of such moneys; if the expenditure of such moneys is covered by the terms of a general scheme prepared by the committee in question under section 31 of the Vocational Education Act, 1930, and approved by her; if the receipts from the EC are paid into the vocational education fund of the committee and disbursed by the committee in accordance with section 48 (4) and section 48 (5) of the Vocational Education Act, 1930, which includes a provision for ministerial approval; and if she has made provision in regulations under section 54 of the said Act to authorise visits to the European Commission for the purpose of making arrangements for the grant aid in question.

Minister for Education (Mrs. O'Rourke)

There is a number of EC programmes which aid educational institutions and other bodies where my Department is not the co-ordinating agency. In some instances, the aid is channelled through another national agency for example, the Office of Science and Technology and Eolas for the technology development programmes. In other cases, the aid comes directly from the European Commission to the particular programme provider. All funds expended by the VECs are subject to audit by the Local Government Auditor. In addition, expenditure on EC-aided programmes is subject to scrutiny by the European Court of Auditors.

Section 31 of the Vocational Education Act is an enabling clause which allows VECs to submit to the Minister a general scheme setting out policy for technical and continuing education and the methods by which this policy will be delivered. The Act specifies that this may be done "from time to time" and there is no stipulation that this is an annual requirement.

Under section 44 of the Act all VECs submit for approval an annual financial scheme called a VI, setting out details of proposed expenditure and expected receipts. In addition, at the end of each year, a statement of actual expenditure and income is submitted in a document V15. These documents include details of activities and expenditure for which EC aid is received. However, the Deputy will appreciate that they are summary documents only, and the data is not always disaggregated to a level where the information required by the Deputy becomes immediately apparent.

With regard to section 54, it is open to VEC officials to apply to my Department for approval for visits abroad. I am aware, however, that VEC officials travel to the European Commission from time to time for official meetings to discuss the implementation arrangements of approved programmes.

Mr. J. Bruton

Will the Minister say which vocational education committees are receiving money directly from the European Community and for what purpose, and if she is satisfied and has the means of satisfying herself that the money is actually being applied for the purposes approved?

Mrs. O'Rourke

We are in the process of establishing that information from various vocational education committees but from the information available since the question came to hand, we are satisfied that the money obtained is being used for the purposes for which it was required.

Mr. J. Bruton

How can the Minister be satisfied that the money is being used for the purpose for which it is designated if she does not even know which vocational education committees are getting money directly from Brussels?

Mrs. O'Rourke

I said I was satisfied as a result of the information already supplied to me. The remainder of the information will be supplied to the Deputy as it comes to hand. We are satisfied within the Department that the moneys obtained are being used for the purposes for which they have been obtained.

Mr. J. Bruton

Has the Minister obtained such information from Westmeath vocational education committee? Will she indicate whether she proposes to take steps to draw the attention of all vocational education committees to the fact that they may look for aid directly from Brussels in view of the fact that it appears only some committees have been availing of this privilege?

Mrs. O'Rourke

It is not a privilege, it is there for anyone who wishes to obtain it. Various VECs have undertaken measures in regard to applications, in particular the PETRA programme of which many VECs are availing. In that respect many VECs are acting as developmental agencies, they are obtaining information about what is available and what programmes can be funded.

Deputy J. Bruton rose.

An Ceann Comhairle

Question No. 15.

Mr. J. Bruton

Has the Minister——

An Ceann Comhairle

If we dwell on each question as long as we have dwelt on this one we will not be able to dispose of the other four questions.

Mr. J. Bruton

Will the Minister comment on the money available for programmes?

Mr. O'Rourke

We have obtained money for Positive Action for Women, Caring in the Community and various seminars related to them. There is also a PETRA programme and the CEO of Galway is the co-ordinator. I will supply a list of these programmes to the Deputy.

Mr. J. Bruton

That is fine.

Mrs. O'Rourke

Various VECs have sought such aid and have been successful.

Mr. J. Bruton

The Minister will supply me with a tabulated statement?

Mrs. O'Rourke

I am sure that the Deputy — in line with his free market enterprise and his espousal of entrepreneurial activities — approves of action such as this.

Mr. J. Bruton

I am just trying to get information.