Michael Noonan
Question:2 Mr. Noonan (Limerick East) asked the Minister for Finance if he will outline Government policy on the non-filling of vacancies in the Civil Service.
Ceisteanna—Questions Oral Answers - Public Service Staffing Levels.
Eamon Gilmore
Question:13 Mr. Gilmore asked the Minister for Finance if he will outline the Government's policy on recruitment to the public service.
I will take Questions Nos. 2 and 13 together.
As I said in my budget speech the Government's aim in 1990 is to consolidate the reduction in staff numbers achieved in recent years and to effect further economies through improved efficency and better management.
As a result of the restrictions on recruitment to the Civil Service and wider public service which have been in force since the 1987 budget, as well as the availability of voluntary early retirement, numbers employed in the public service — including local authorities — have fallen by about 20,000 from 1987 levels to the present level of approximately 196,000.
While the fall in numbers has had the desired effect of containing the cost of the public service pay bill, the Government still consider it essential to maintain for a further period the policy of containment. Within this framework. I see some scope for the filling of certain vacancies which may arise where so doing will lead to benefits to the Exchequer which are immediate, significant and continuing and which cannot be otherwise attained. Limited recruitment may, therefore, be permitted to fill key vacancies in areas of particular need subject to the approval of the Minister for Finance in the case of Civil Service vacancies and subject to the approval of the relevant Minister and the Minister for Finance in the remainder of the public service.
In addition, the scope of the career break scheme has been extended and future vacancies under this scheme can be filled where this is required by the needs of the work. These elements should generate significant employment opportunities. Any recruitment will, of course, be at much more junior levels than those at which persons took early retirement. Therefore there is not, and there will not be, any question of replacement of staff who were paid enhanced terms to leave the service. There can be no question of undermining the savings already achieved.
(Limerick East): Can the Minister clarify if, where the 3:1 embargo — or the 5:1 embargo as it operated subsequently — has allowed posts to be vacant, these posts are still available to be filled? To put it another way, are the posts vacant and simply not being filled or have the posts been suppressed?
The embargo is continuing. The effects in whichever area, whatever ratios there may be in various Departments——
(Limerick East): That is not the question. Are the posts gone or are there vacancies in existence?
The rules under the embargo are that you fill one and save one in three. For instance, if you have three vacancies you can fill one. The other two remain but when a third vacancy arises again, one can be filled as before. Those are the rules under which the embargo operates.
(Limerick East): Are the other two there to be filled or would the posts have been suppressed?
They may be there. They are still there in theory on the books of various Departments but they are not going to be filled except on the strict interpretation of the embargo.
(Limerick East): A second supplementary then. Does the Minister in his capacity as Minister for the Public Service as well as Minister for Finance have agreed staffing levels specified by grades from the different Departments at this stage, or are the agreed staffing levels specified by grade still the levels that pertained before the embargo applied?
I think the Deputy is coming at the theoretical establishment numbers which still exist. They exist but they are not going to be filled only under the rules of the embargo.
(Limerick East): Does the Minister not think when he is giving assurances that these will never be filled, that it would be reasonable to move to new establishment levels?
I never said they would not be filled. If the embargo in a certain situation requires that it is a 3:1 ratio for filling, two vacancies will be there and will remain there until the third one comes up to allow one to be filled out of three. That is the rule of the embargo. To take the Deputy's suggestion would be to abolish the embargo and abolish the use of theoretical figures.
(Limerick East): The Minister said the numbers employed in the Civil Service are several thousand fewer than they were in 1987. Are the 20,000 posts available to be filled subsequently——
No.
(Limerick East):——or have the Department of Finance now moved to new establishment levels, to use the Minister's term, for all Government Departments?
I will repeat what I said in the earlier part of the reply. On a policy of containment at a certain level of staffing, the level we have reached now is approximately the level which was there in 1977. That number has been capped and will not be allowed increase beyond that level.