Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 4 Jul 1990

Vol. 401 No. 1

Private Members' Business. - Arigna Coal Mines Proposed Closure:Motion (Resumed):

The following motion was moved by Deputy R. Bruton on 4 July 1990:

That Dáil Éireann calls on the Government to establish an Enterprise Fund for the Arigna area, which would be used to develop alternative employment for those involved in coal mining and power generation at Arigna, and that the date for termination of coal purchases by the ESB be extended to give an opportunity for these alternatives to become established.

Debate resumed on the following amendment:

To delete all words after "Dáil Éireann" and substitute the following:

"welcomes the steps which the Minister for Energy is taking to examine whether there is a valid possibility for the continuation of employment in coal mining and power generation at Arigna, and the other measures being taken by him to provide alternative employment opportunities in the region."

—(Minister for Energy.)

Mr. Durkan

I wish to share my time with my colleague, Deputy John Connor. A national and natural resource such as coal or coal products is most important. We should be fully aware of their importance and where an opportunity exists to further develop such an industry we should not lose sight of the prospects particularly in areas where unemployment has affected the local economy to a considerable extent. We should be anxious to ensure that our proposals in relation to mining or the provision of energy requirements in such areas is such that it will provide for the energy requirements and also the longterm employment of the local community.

I wish to conclude now and hand over to my colleague, and hopefully at a later stage I will pursue a similar matter with the Minister.

Mr. Connor

I do not intend to go over all the reasons my party have put forward this motion. That has been well put by Deputies Bruton, Reynolds and Nealon. I will instead deal largely with what the Minister said here last night when he set out the Government's position on the social-economic tragedy of Arigna. What the Minister said last night was sorely disappointing. He went out of his way to belittle the contribution of Arigna Mines to the energy sector of the Irish economy for generations. He said, not just by implication, that for the last 30 years or more the existence of the Arigna mining and power generation industry amounted to no more than a mendicant or beggar's existence.

Minister for Energy (Mr. Molloy)

On a point of order, is the Deputy purporting to quote me, because if he is, I do not recall having said what he is attributing to me?

An Ceann Comhairle

If the Deputy is attributing certain remarks to the Minister it would be well if he did quote.

Mr. Connor

He stressed over and over again the economic contribution that has been made to keep this place in existence for 32 years. He mentioned the subsidy that every ESB consumer has made to mining and power generation for three decades.

What the Minister conveniently forgot, of course, is that the view he was giving was hardly an objective one. He said, line for line, what the ESB wanted him to say. In fact his script could have been written by the ESB, or apologists for the ESB's position in his own Department. We all know that for a decade the ESB have wanted to close down this station at Arigna. The Minister gleefully said that it takes 9.32p to produce a unit of electricity from Arigna and that it only takes 1.5p to produce a unit of electricity in Moneypoint generated from imported coal. Of course, when one applies the most simplistic rules of economy one is bound to get a figure like that. Moneypoint is bound to win out, because it is so much larger and because places like Arigna are so much smaller, if one applies that simplistic economies of scale formula. If one takes each station in insolation and calculates the amount of labour costs, fuel and other fixed local charges that go in there every year, and the amount of units of electricity that come out of that power station, one will find that some stations are more efficient than others. In that kind of comparison smaller stations always suffer.

What this simple comparison leaves out, conveniently of course, is that in a large company like the ESB there are other huge outgoings that affect the efficency and economy of the various product outlets or stations. The ESB has a debt overhang of about £1 billion or more and a lot of that debt overhang can be traced to their newest and largest power station, Moneypoint, which cost about £750 million or £75 billion mostly paid for by borrowings. If one were to isolate Moneypoint, and along with its fuel costs in any one year one were to add in the cost of servicing the debt, then the price of the unit of electricity coming out of moneypoint would be a lot more than 1.5p per unit. Arigna has no borrowing overhang, and if one calculates by pricing the average value of each unit generated to all the costs, debt service, depreciation and all that the company has, the Moneypoint unit would go up dramatically and the Arigna unit would come down. Of course, when one wants to blacken a place like Arigna one selects one's cost to paint the worst possible picture.

There are people who will say that Arigna is now 32 years old and is at the end of its useful life, and if it were to be replaced a huge amount of additional expenditure would be involved, which would mean borrowings, and that would do a lot for the formula that the Minister is applying. But I say no. Arigna is 32 years old, but I believe it has a useful life of 20 more years. Most people agree that Arigna is in such good condition that it has a life span of 50 years and that gives it about 20 years to go.

To all of this, of course, the Minister's sole response to the crisis is a task force, and it is all dressed up now in this new upbeat language that Fianna Fáil nowadays call being positive.

Mr. Molloy

You might at least attribute the right party to me.

Mr. Connor

I would be right if I went back a few years. The task force, we are told, was set up because the closure would cause hardship to some and if the Minister looks at the text of his speech he will find that. One might say I am being negative when I point out the plain fact that this closure will bring hardship to all the mining families, the families who earn their living from the power station and the hundreds of families who make a living directly or indirectly from the spending of the wages earned from mining and power generation in Arigna. This closure will affect quite a number of people.

I do not decry the setting up of the task force. It is led and staffed by excellent people whose brief is to identify other areas of potential employment and nothing more. I can already give the results of the task force investigation. They will tell us there is great potential for the lumber industry in the area, given the huge forests in the surrounding counties, that there is potential in tourism and in the production of smokeless fuels and so on, but we have known that for the last ten years or more. Such a task force which will have no power to direct funds into worthwhile replacement ventures is useless. The ESB have vaguely said they will help but have not given many details, leaving themselves with options to give help or refuse it as they so wish. I predict that in the majority of cases, whether the proposals are good or bad, they will decide to refuse it.

The Government have no commitment in this regard. Promises were made about the IDA. The business expansion scheme was mentioned and we have been told how helpful it will be. We have been told what the International Fund for Ireland might do to help, but not mentioned is the fact that proposed projects for County Roscommon do not benefit from the International Fund for Ireland. We must bear in mind that the brunt of the economic decline consequent on these closures will be borne by County Roscommon, or at least a portion of north County Roscommon. That, sadly, is the Government's response.

The task force may seem respectable but their remit is to be a talking shop, to be used as an instrument by Government to talk themselves past the closures and, they hope, past the evacuation and emigration of most of the families in the area. When these families have been shipped to Britain and the US, where most of them will work illegally, the Government will disband the task force and will say to the striken community of Arigna, "wait another while and when the sky falls we will all catch larks." The Government should not be so blasé. They have a moral obligation to this community.

The Minister said last night that in the eighties various Ministers for Energy considered the possibility of a new power station to use a fluidised bed-burner to burn Arigna's low quality crow coal. The Minister is wrong. The decision had been made in 1979. The then Minister, the late George Colley, announced that the Government had decided to build a new station to burn crow coal in Arigna. That announcement was accompanied by great political publicity, and a start up date of 1980 was given. That promise was made over a decade ago.

The ESB were never happy with this idea and they stalled the project from the beginning. Matters were brought to a head in the general election campaign of January-February 1982. There was a lot of local agitation, and rightly so, at that time. People working in the mines and the power station wanted to know what the politicians had in mind. On 14 February 1982, four days before polling day, a famous meeting was convened in Drumshanbo, County Leitrim, at which a letter was read out to hundreds of people, including almost all the miners and power station workers. The letter stated that if Fianna Fáil were re-elected they would build the new crow coal burning station and to hell with the ESB and their misgivings. It stated that this was a political and final decision, a promise given under the hand and seal of Charles J. Haughey. The speaker making the promise on that day was Mr. Haughey's then favourite and most trusted Front Bench colleague, Mr. Seán Doherty.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Members of this House should be referred to by their title — Minister, Minister of State, Taoiseach or Tánaiste as the case may be, and there should be no reference whatsoever to Members of the other House, the Seanad.

Mr. Connor

I appreciate your admonitions but nevertheless I feel this point has to be made.

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy will obey the Chair.

Mr. Connor

Yes, of course I will obey the Chair. I am referring of course to Senator Seán Doherty.

An Ceann Comhairle

I wonder if the Deputy is obeying the Chair when he persists in naming Members of the other House. I ruled here last night that it is a long standing convention that Members of the other House are not referred to.

Mr. Connor

I apologise if I cause trouble for the Ceann Comhairle but he will know I am the most obedient and, indeed, the most taciturn of Deputies.

It is little wonder that promise was not believed. Most people would not believe that such a solemn, open-ended promise could be made. No doubt those who made the promise would have tried a short time later to deny it but we are grateful that RTE were on hand to record that event and were able to show it to the nation on a recent "Today Tonight" programme on the Arigna crisis. Fianna Fáil were elected to Government and in the summer of that year surreptitiously shelved the idea of a second power station in Arigna. The final irony was that two Cabinet Members who were part of that decision are from the area, the then Minister for Finance and Tánaiste from the Sligo-Leitrim constituency, and the then Minister for Justice from the Roscommon constituency. Both gentlemen stood on the back of a lorry in Drumshanbo on 14 February, one read the promise and the other was there in support of it. A lot of water has passed under the bridge since and, as somebody said last night, the sands of time for Arigna are down to the last few grains. The Minister came in here last night and said they had insisted on an extension of the social welfare service for far too long. He said they were an unacceptable type of diseconomy whose existence could no longer be tolerated.

Mr. Molloy

I never said any such thing. The Deputy has a warped mind.

Mr. Connor

In effect, that is what the Minister said. The people were told to forget about the promises of the past; it is the promises of the task force they have to believe now. The upbeat mantra on that is there will be a skills audit and a counselling service where ambitions and attitudes in relation to alternative employment will be looked at. The IDA will publish brochures about these people and there are vacant advance factories in Drumshanbo. A wood pulp industry, would not suit because, we were told last night, it would need a marine outlet. That is the pathetic offer to this unfortunate region.

In many ways it is worse than the down-right lies told nine or ten years ago about new mining and new power stations. The people there do not believe a word of it. They want a meaningful enterprise fund to help them. There is plenty of enterprise in the region to take up funds and make a success of small new businesses based on local resources and initiatives. A task force with no powers to do anything is useless. A fund into which the ESB say they may put some undisclosed sum if they like the use to which it will be put is useless too. If a single one of the 300 jobs is to be replaced there must be tangible help in terms of money. That is the kernel of it. There is no point in telling the community that the ESB and certain other State agencies are there to help such as the IDA, FÁS and the foreign-funded agency, the International Fund for Ireland, although we welcome everything they do. There is no point in saying that the business expansion scheme exists to help them. All these cannot help unless there is real money in a kitty for this area. There is a moral obligation on the Government, given all they promised in the past, to come to the assistance of these people.

There is a lot of waffle and meaningless talk about the potential help from State agencies. It is like Robert Peel telling the House of Commons that distress in Ireland could not be relieved because the laissez faire economic thinking was that you could not intervene to stop people starving to death. There is a modern parallel today. The Minister is saying he has a quote from Political Economy and that they shall try to save themselves by finding resources.

The people lack resources because mining and the allied power generating industry which began in the 1950s was all they had. It is a mountain area and the land is of very little use. There is farming in the area but it is becoming more and more marginal because we have an agricultural policy which no longer wants to transfer due income supports to farmers like that. We have the dismantling of the market supports but under the promise of the Structural Funds we were told that every pound lost to larger farmers would be replaced by a pound to smaller farmers, who would suffer even more by the withdrawal of market supports. We have been very enthusiastic about negotiating certain market supports but far less enthusiastic when it has come to negotiating ordinary income supports for people who live at the margin in regions of this kind.

This shows the total bankruptcy of policy with which we are dealing. There is no concern for these people. No account is taken of the fact that 300 job losses in this region impacts as badly as the loss of thousands of jobs in a major urban area. There is no sympathy for the fact that all that awaits these people is the dole queue and then emigration. Surveys recently conducted, which when published will certainly frighten the Government, show that parts of Leitrim, Roscommon and Sligo are losing the equivalent of 6 per cent of their population per year and most of those leaving are young. It is often said that Leitrim, the great demographic tragedy, lost 50 per cent of its people in the 50 years between 1936 and 1986. At the rate they are leaving nowadays theoretically it would take ten years to lose more than half.

The response to that reality in respect of a place like Arigna is the litany we get every day that the State agencies such as the ESB and FÁS are there to help and the IDA will publish a brochure about the green mountains and the nice setting. The naivety of it all. Are the IDA expected to bring a major industry to Arigna when it is serviced by the worst road infrastructure anywhere in the country? This is the greatest disincentive possible to anybody establishing an industry. There is no way to bring in raw materials efficiently and quickly or to get out any finished product. The people are expected to be naive enough to believe what they are told. I do not think the Minister fully believes what he says when he preaches in that manner. The infrastructural services for which a Government Department are responsible do not exist.

My party insist on putting this matter to a vote of the House. We have accepted that power generation and the mining of coal seem to be at an end in Arigna. All the forces are against those of us who do not want this to happen. Being realists, we have to accept it. We are asking in this non-controversial motion that the ESB should continue to accept deliveries of coal until such time as alternative employment is put in place in that area. I would sincerely hope that Members on all sides of this House would support this motion. There is an obligation on others besides members of Fine Gael, the Labour Party, The Workers' Party and Independents. There are Members present who have a major interest. I would compliment Deputy John Ellis on his speech last night. I hope that words will be matched with feet going up those steps tonight.

Minister of State at the Department of Industry and Commerce (Mr. Leyden)

A Ceann Comhairle, I hope to share the time available to me with my colleague, Deputy Tom Foxe.

An Ceann Comhairle

Is that agreed? Agreed.

Mr. Leyden

I will take roughly 20 minutes and my colleague will take approximately ten minutes.

I take this opportunity to welcome to the House representatives of the action group of the mines and the power station and I compliment them on their positive approach to this crisis in their area. This is a time of major concern to them and to all the people of Arigna and surrounding regions in County Leitrim and south Sligo. I am personally aware of the difficulties arising now and in the future in this area.

I believe the motion tabled is not strong enough and I recommend that the House supports the amendment put down by the Minister for Energy, Deputy Robert Molloy which states that Dáil Éireann—

welcomes the steps which the Minister for Energy is taking to examine whether there is a valid possibility for the continuation of employment in coal mining and power generation at Arigna, and the other measures being taken by him to provide alternative employment opportunities in the region.

This is a very positive amendment. I seek the support of Members for that amendment which allows the Minister and the Government to give every possible consideration to this issue. Mining of one sort or another has been an integral part of the Arigna area for several centuries. More recently, during World War II, the coal mines performed an important function providing badly needed national fuel supplies. With a gradual decline in demand following the war, the Government of the day decided to have the ESB construct a coal-burning power station and the station was commissioned in 1958. The station and mines combined are now the mainstay of the local economy. However, in the 32 years since the station was built, the economies of electricity generation have changed substantially and this has led to the present situation.

The Government amendment to the Fine Gael motion deserves the support of all Deputies from the area because it represents a positive and mature approach to the Arigna problem. The present study, which is a thorough evaluation of all the possibilities for the continuation of coal mining and power generation in Arigna, is clear evidence of the Government's determination to explore fully the whole situation before any final decision is taken. This contradicts any suggestion that decisions are being taken in the absence of complete geological information on the area.

I appeal to all Deputies representing the constituencies of Roscommon, Galway East and Leitrim-Sligo to combine in their support for the people in the area. I had hoped, and indeed expected, that Deputy Connor would have put forward proposals instead of going back over the historical situation which has no relevance.

Mr. Connor

That was very embarrassing.

Mr. Leyden

It certainly was not embarrassing to me.

Mr. Connor

You were on the back of the lorry——

Mr. Leyden

Before you were even a Deputy I had led deputations from that area who were seeking better conditions at the mines from the Revenue Commissioners. It might have been useful for Deputy Connor and other Deputies to have gone down——

Mr. Connor

Which I did——

An Ceann Comhairle

No interruptions please, Deputy. There is a time limit to this debate.

Mr. Leyden

——to see the workings of the mines. I can say without fear of contradiction that the men of the area worked extremely hard to obtain the coal for the power station and they deserve praise and credit for that work.

The Government have commissioned this study in spite of earlier indications that the coal reserves in the area were not adequate to sustain viable coal-mining operations.

Having said that, and as the Minister for Energy stated last night, the preliminary results from his latest study are not very encouraging and we must now await the results of a joint ESB-Geological Survey analysis of the cost of mining the existing reserves. In tandem with this approach, the Government adopted a suggestion which I had put forward for the setting up of a task force to look at the employment alternatives in the region. This is not to prejudge the coal reserves study; it is the only sensible strategy to adopt. We must be prepared for whatever conclusions emerge and I have to say that, having attended the first meeting of the task force last year, I was struck by the very impressive way in which they went about their business.

They gathered information on all aspects of the situation, from surveying the miners to looking at the potential for the development of the area's natural resources. All the relevant agencies were involved: Roscommon, Sligo and Leitrim County Councils the IDA, FÁS, Teagasc, my own Department, the Department of Energy, the Central Development Committee, the regional tourism organisations, and three county development officers and, of course, the ESB. The chairman is Mr. Donal Connolly, the Roscommon county manager. Resources had been provided to enable the task force to carry out their work effectively and Mr. Tom Lynch, the Roscommon county development officer was assigned full-time as secretary, with a base in Arigna itself.

Already this joint approach, involving all the organisations which might possibly have an input into job creation in the area, has borne fruit in the shape of the Kennedy boats project, which has received funding from both the ESB and IDA. This commitment of money by the ESB clearly shows that the board are very much aware of their responsibilities.

Essentially, therefore, what the Fine Gael motion is calling for is already happening on the ground. Employment opportunities in all sectors are being examined and I am assured that the IDA are giving very special attention to the area. Indeed, contrary to what has been said by some uninformed commentators about County Roscommon as a whole, job creation in IDA assisted projects is very buoyant. The county was the most successful of the four counties covered by the IDA Midland region in terms of new jobs created last year. This trend seems to be continuing this year and, in addition to some projects which I have already announced, I am confident there will be more good news before the year is out.

A project in the north of the county which has exceeded all expectations is the Polar West facility at Boyle, County Roscommon. I was pleased to present not one, but two marketing awards to the company and this marketing success has been reflected in excellent sales figures to the extent that an extension to the factory is being built and additional workers taken on. This project is also supported by the EC.

I mentioned this project specifically because it is a fine example of what can be achieved. No one underestimates the massive difficulties which the Arigna area will face in the event of the closure of the mines, but I am confident that, with the type of determination evident at all levels, worthwhile sustainable jobs can be created, and as the Minister for Energy said last evening this would represent an improvement in an area where the entire local community is totally dependent on a single industry, particularly and industry which has suffered in recent years from huge job losses and closures all over Europe.

It is well known that there are substantial quantities of crow coal in the Arigna area, the bulk of which, unfortunately, is up to 70 per cent stone, is extremely high in ash content and is not suitable for burning in the existing power station. The question of using crow coal at Arigna station arose in the late seventies when it became clear that the main seam of coal being supplied to the power station was becoming exhausted and the quality of the remaining reserves was falling rapidly. It was known at the time that there were considerable quantities of low grade coal in the area but it was recognised that this was not suitable for burning in the 15 megawatt station. Everyone realised that and it was accepted. Arigna Collieries spent considerable amounts of money in researching the burning of crow coal which is in vast quantities in the area.

Following the oil crisis in 1979-80 when the price of oil rose to $33 a barrel, with the development of new fluoridised beds combustion technology which it was expected would burn the low grade Arigna coal, an examination of using the low grade crow coal was undertaken by the ESB. This examination led to a proposal to build a new 45 megawatt station at Arigna to be fuelled by the local crow coal with a commission date of late 1988. Unfortunately in the meantime, because of the subsequent reduction in the demand for electricity, the ESB's over-capacity and the high cost of building the station at the time — £80 million in 1980 prices — the board of the ESB deferred indefinitely the construction of the station in 1982. This was a major devastating blow to the region.

It is quite evident, of course, that certain Deputies were in Cabinet at the time, but Governments change, and they changed from 1982-87, and if there was good reason to change the decision I wonder why it was not changed in that period.

I do not want to have a historical debate on this issue, that would not be of any benefit. We will not achieve anything by debating whether Michael O'Leary, Deputy Dick Spring or Deputy Bobby Molloy was the responsible Minister. We have a crisis on our hands and it will not be solved by scoring political points.

Mr. Connor

The Minister should give the facts.

Mr. Leyden

It will not be of any assistance to the 250 workers in the Arigna area who are worried about their future and the future of their families.

Mr. Connor

The Minister should not——

An Ceann Comhairle

Please, Deputy Connor.

Mr. Leyden

We must try to retain and develop the maximum number of jobs in the Arigna area. I agree that this will not be an easy task; job creation is not an easy task. If previous administrations were aware that difficulties would arise in the area in the future why did they not set up a task force or provide alternative employment in the area? Unfortunately jobs were lost in the Drumshanbo area at that time but this was not the fault of the IDA.

I have referred to the use of crow coal and why it was decided not to proceed with the new station. I agree that this decision was a blow to the region because it would have maintained employment there. Crow coal has a very high ash content but it was not regarded at that time as being economically viable.

The recent geological survey report indicated that there are substantial reserves of coal in other seams similar to the main seam coal. There is some doubt about its usability by the station and the Minister for Energy has taken the very prudent move of having a detailed study carried out on the possibility of burning this coal in the station. I understand there is some doubt about the combustibility of this coal and the method of extracting it from the mine will have to be ascertained. This confirms the view of the action group in the area that there is suitable coal there. They stated this at public meetings and I am delighted the geological office have confirmed this. It is now a question of assessing the quality of this coal and whether it can be used in the Arigna power station. I sincerely hope that this coal identified by the geological office will be suitable for use by the station and that electricity generation will continue at Arigna for years to come.

However, as there is still some doubt about the possibility of using the coal at the station I do not think I should raise expectations in regard to the quantity and quality of the coal available. The Minister clearly indicated last night that the Electricity Supply Board and the geological office will examine the quality of the coal to see if it can be burned at the Arigna power station.

We need to maintain the maximum number of jobs in this area and the negotiations in relation to agreements being reached between a major mine owner in the area and the ESB should be postponed for as long as possible until such time as jobs are provided on the ground. I have stated my position on this publicly in Drumshanbo and I am making it clear again in Dáil Éireann. I am aware that agreements are being worked out at present but there are smaller mines in the area, for example, Flynn and Lehany, Wynne's and Greene's, and the station should continue to take its supplies from them as long as they are available. This point has been made to me very strongly. In a sense this view is incorporated in our amendment which seeks to retain the maximum number of jobs in the area. Our amendment welcomes the steps the Minister for Energy is taking to examine whether there is a valid possibility for the continuation of employment in coal mining and power generation at Arigna. I support this amendment and I appeal to Deputies from all sides to do likewise. The steps outlined in this amendment can be realised by the Government and the Minister for Energy, who has ultimate responsibility.

We should all work together in trying to resolve the problems in this area. As Minister of State at the Department of Industry and Commerce, I am endeavouring to ensure that all the resources which can be made available by the IDA, the local development teams and the task force will be placed at the disposal of the people of the Arigna area in order to provide alternative employment for them. Ultimately, supplies will run out and we must plan ahead in order to retain the maximum number of jobs. As I have to share my time with Deputy Foxe, I will conclude my remarks. I hope the people of Arigna will receive better news in the future.

Mr. Foxe

I should like to share my time with Deputy Mattie Brennan.

An Ceann Comhairle

Is that agreed? Agreed.

Mr. Foxe

I should like to thank the Minister of State at the Department of Industry and Commerce, Deputy Leyden, for sharing his time with me.

Both yesterday evening and this evening the physical facts concerning Arigna have been dealt with and it would be pointless for me to reiterate them. The ESB have given two reasons for closing the power station at Arigna. The first reason they gave is that it cannot be kept open on economic grounds. They have said that the production of a certain quantity of electricity at the Arigna power station with the use of Arigna coal costs more than the production of electricity at any other power station in the country using imported coal or oil. They are right that it is more expensive to produce electricity at Arigna but I question how much more expensive it is.

There are approximately 1.25 million consumers of electricity in Ireland and the cost to them of keeping the Arigna power station in operation is the same as the price of one pint of beer per year per consumer. It is not the same as the price of one pint of beer per day, per week or per month; it is the same as the price of one pint of beer per year per consumer. Therefore, I do not think their argument that the Arigna power station should be closed on economic grounds can stand up.

The second reason they give for the closure of the power station is that its life span is over. This power station as set up in 1958, over 30 years ago. We were told at that time that the life expectancy of the power station would be 30 years. It has lasted for over 30 years and experience has shown that stations similar to the Arigna station have a life span well in excess of 50 years. This makes sense when one thinks of the life span of goods which were manufactured several decades ago, for example, cars, tractors and lorries. The materials used in those goods several decades ago were longer lasting than the material being used today. The life span of 50 years for the Arigna power station is a conservative estimate because people with experience believe it is the minimum period for such power stations.

Nobody in his right mind would say that the mines at Arigna should be kept open if there is no coal there or the deposits are not of good quality. Nobody is asking for that. Nevertheless, the mine should not be closed while there is a sufficient quantity of quality coal below the surface.

To put things in proper perspective for people from city areas, the population of Tallaght is approximately the same as that of the combined counties of Sligo, Leitrim and Roscommon. It would be very easy to understand the plight of people in Tallaght if a source of employment for 300 people closed. It is easier to understand the devastating effect of the closure of such a source of employment in a rural, mountainous area, where the prospects of alternative employment — at least in the short term — are minimal to nil.

The news of the closure of the power station in Arigna made the headlines in October 1989. The Minister, Deputy Molloy, was bombarded with advice from many quarters. Some people recommended closing the mine as it did not have any coal while others wanted to close it because, although there was coal, it was of a very low grade. Others, particularly those who knew the area, said that there was coal of sufficient quality in the mine to justify its being kept open. The Minister, a wise and practical man, set up a geological group to survey the area and to report back to him. While the final report is not ready the indications are, according to the Minister last night, that the future of the mine is quite good. The Minister should be complimented on his initiative in setting up the survey group against the advice in certain quarters.

In February of this year the task force was set up. I thought it was merely a camouflage in view of the fact that we had been told the mine and the power station would close within a matter of months. They have done tremendous work but I should like to remind the Minister that they are not superhuman and they could not, in the intervening months, have identified the various possible industries which would be suitable for the area in the event of the mine closing. It would take years rather than months for such a group to identify and locate the most suitable industries for the area.

In modern times, tremendous advances have been made in science and technology. An expert who visited the Arigna area suggested that technology should be applied to the existing geological data of the area which would show whether there where coal deposits deep in the earth's crust because of geological eruptions. No doubt, the Minister will take that advice on board to receive first-hand information on the availability of hidden coal seams. Some months ago a group of people exploring for oil and gas in the Cavan area discovered deposits of gypsum lying 150 feet beneath the earth's surface. If technology can pick up a deposit of gypsum, no doubt it is also possible to pick up a deposit of coal. I hope that this will be the case in the near future.

This motion should not be treated as an ordinary one before the House because it deals with the future of Arigna and the surrounding area. Indeed it refers to the future of a whole locality. It should cross political boundaries, and I ask all Members to vote in favour of the motion. When the Minister, Deputy Molloy, makes his final decision on the future of the mine and the power station, I understand it will be based on sound sociological grounds. When we look back in the years to come on the happenings of 1990 in this House and elsewhere concerning the Arigna area we will say that the Minister's decisions were not only based on sound sociological grounds but also on sound economic grounds.

Mr. M. Brennan

I should like to thank the previous two speakers for sharing their time with me. Having listened to the Minister last night I am hopeful that the results of the geological survey will show that there is adequate coal in the Arigna mine. I compliment the Minister for carrying out that survey to ensure that every effort is made to try to keep the mines open.

The Government of the day in the fifties were concerned about Arigna and the same applies to the Government of today. Indeed the House knows that the Government are very concerned about this issue and that a decision will not be taken lightly. I also joined the march in Drumshanbo on 14 February and I heard the then Minister for Energy giving a commitment to keeping Arigna open. Fianna Fáil were not in Government at the time and, as the incoming Government lasted for only seven months, it was very hard to make a decision about Arigna. However, the Fine Gael Coalition Government were in office for four years after that and they did not make a decision about Arigna. It is now up to this Government to make a decision.

I should love to see Arigna power station kept open. The decision to close it should not be taken until the results of the survey are known. If the ESB cease taking coal from the mines in Arigna it will be devastating for counties Sligo, Leitrim and Roscommon. It will affect counties Roscommon and Leitrim more than County Sligo but a number of the miners live in Geevagh, County Sligo. It will also affect Drumshanbo, Ballyfarnon and Arigna and all the small towns in the area. This area has already a high population. It is an area of farmers, many of whose holdings are small, consequently the incomes from them are considerably low. If this power station and the mines close many of these people will have to emigrate or go on unemployment benefit.

That is not going to happen. The task force set up will, I am sure, find some alternative industry. There is an IDA advance factory in Drumshanbo which will be well able to cater for at least 100 people if we can find alternative employment in the Drumshanbo area. I have full confidence in the task force. Like my colleague here who spoke last night, Deputy Ellis, I am hoping for alternative industry if anything happens to the mines and the power station, but the power station should not close. I ask the Minister to try to keep it open, if possible even putting fluidised burners in it to make sure it is kept open to burn the coal that is there in loads which are unsightly. A committee decided some time ago that coal would be taken from Arigna, brought by road to Sligo, put on a boat at Sligo and taken to Moneypoint. That never happened. Coal is being imported for Moneypoint though we have the raw materials.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

Deputy, you have stolen two minutes from somebody else's time. An Teachta Tomás Mac Giolla, agus tá mé buíoch nár chuir tú é sin i gcuimhne dom.

Tomás Mac Giolla

Ní bheidh me rófhada. I do not want to go over ground that has already been covered but I want to make a few points. First, I am very disappointed at the stance of Deputy Leyden who at one point would lift your heart but then suddenly you were down again. What he was saying was that there was no hope at the end of the day really. Various possibilities were spoken of but none of them was on when it came down to brass tacks. His entire speech might well bear the title, "nothing doing." However, I join with the Minister of State in paying tribute to the joint committee established in the area for the wonderful work they have done in publicising the plight of the people there and uniting Leitrim west, Cavan, north Roscommon and that whole area, and bringing everybody into the campaign to prevent the closure of the mines and the power station.

The ESB have been at all times a vital instrument in the development of the economy of the State. Steps taken by them in regard to expanding rural electrification rapidly in the fifties and using the indigenous fuels turf and coal, were based on political decisions. I worked for 30 years in the ESB. I was there at the time of the development of rural electrification, of the setting up of Bord na Móna and the building of the Arigna power station. There was much excitement in the ESB then. They took up those Government policy decisions wholeheartedly.

As I said, the decisions were policy decisions. They were not taken on economic grounds. If they had taken decisions on economic grounds, the turf fired stations or the Arigna power station would never have been built and we would not have had the little hand-won turf stations at Clady in Donegal and in Kerry. There was no economic viability for the ESB in that development, but there was fantastic economic viability in it for the whole country. In the forties and fifties the midlands were a very depressed area as was the area covered by the committee set up with regard to the Arigna coal fired station. These decisions uplifted the whole area and were a fantastic boon. Great co-operation between the ESB and Bord na Móna brought new prosperity to the midlands and the building of the coal fired station did the same for the Arigna area, bringing development of the coalmines and an injection of investment into the area. However, a new policy decision has been made and all that is now changed. The policy decision to use indigenous fuels, even though they were not economic for the ESB, has been changed. That, obviously, is a Government decision. The Government have told Bord na Móna and the ESB that they must become efficient, that that is the business now, that there must be redundancies, that they must get rid of some of their workers, close down uneconomic stations, get with it and be efficient. That is the new policy. That means closing down eventually all the turf-fired stations, Arigna station and so on and finishing up with a new major gas fired station plus Moneypoint. From the ESB point of view it is economic not to bother with these little uneconomic ventures that help only people. They help people all over the country and they help the prosperity of the country as a result.

In the 25 or 30 years since the decision was made and those power stations were built in the knowledge that there was a limit to the life particularly of turf-fired stations and coal mines, what plan did any Government produce for what is going to happen in those areas? Running around thinking of new jobs here and there is ridiculous. What plans were made for this? No plans were made for it and those areas are just as dependent today on the power stations and on turf and coal mines as they were 25 or 30 years ago.

It is odd that when the ESB were doing all this they were at their weakest. They were struggling to expand, to extend rural electrification and build new power stations as rapidly as possible in order to keep up with the demand for supply. Nevertheless they proceeded and they helped the whole development of those depressed areas. Now the ESB are rich and powerful. They have ample capacity without further capital investment. They have a large surplus of income over expenditure for the first time and at the moment the extra costs of maintaining the ESB coal-fired power station in Arigna would be as imperceptible in the ESB accounts as a wart on an elephant. It would be as nothing compared with what it was in the fifties and sixties. It need not cost the ESB one penny more because all the Government have to do is stop putting their hand in the ESB till. The ESB are not allowed under Statute to make a profit so the Government have been creaming off the surplus by way of levies. Last year in addition to the levy, the Minister for Finance just grabbed a few more million pounds from the company. The Government should cease doing that and allow the ESB to continue with Arigna power station and continue with the turf-fired stations. There would be no cost to the consumer if the ESB were allowed to do that job from their surplus.

I dispute the figure given by Minister Molloy last night with regard to the unit cost of electricity for Moneypoint. That was in fact the unit cost of production without taking into consideration the £1,000 million construction cost of Moneypoint and so on. The minimal extra cost to the ESB would be as nothing. It would be far better for the economy generally if the Taoiseach and his Minister for Finance would leave the money with the ESB and allow existing stations to continue at least for another eight to ten years to give opportunity for development.

The ESB, in a report in 1975, said that there was up to 20 years' supply of coal, so even on their terms they are closing down five years too soon. The ESB did not refer to any problem with regard to the life of the power station. The power station at that time was considered quite capable of surviving until 1995. There is no reason for the power station not to continue for another seven to ten years in order to give the Government an opportunity to develop plans for alternative employment and to assess the viability of a crow coal station. I do not know anything about it but the commission who have done their homework about this maintain that despite the huge ash problem it can be disposed of as there is a demand for the ash from the cement industry. I would therefore ask the Government to carry out a further study as to the viability of a crow coal power station and, in the meantime, to stop robbing the ESB till and allow the station to continue for another eight to ten years.

I support the Labour Party amendment asking the ESB to continue the contract for the supply of coal to the power station until the full implications of the survey are available. I also agree with the proposal which calls for the continuation of the ESB power station until further alternatives are available.

Mr. R. Bruton

Many on this side of the House listening to the Minister last night were very depressed by the scenario he painted. When Arigna was established it was established with the explicit recognition that this was a region with particular economic problems, a depressed region which needed the support of this major employing industry. The Minister said last night that things are not as bleak now as they were in the fifties and suggested that the social arguments for maintaining employment in this area are no longer as strong. All the statistics for the region would dispute what the Minister said. Emigration is reaching proportions that have not been known in this area for many years and surpasses the bleak years of the fifties. The alternative employment opportunities in the area, as the Minister recognised, are very slim. The Minister must look at this sector in a special way and not simply by comparing Moneypoint and Arigna.

Last night the Minister quoted figures for the cost of producing electricity at Arigna compared to the cost of producing electricity in Moneypoint. As Deputy Mac Giolla said, those figures were selective in that they ignored depreciation and interest charges on the major investment in Moneypoint. We must realise that this plant has succeeded in operating efficiently throughout its life and a great achievement of the people in the area is that they have kept its performance up to a high level.

We must cast our minds back to the real economic difficulties we faced in 1979 and in 1980 when energy prices rose to unprecedented levels. At that time public policy recognised the invaluable contribution Arigna was making and it was Government policy to establish another power plant in Arigna to further develop that indigenous resource. The Minister has said that now that prices have gone down that proposition is no longer viable and cannot be considered. Arigna served the community well at a time when we had no indigenous resource to turn to, except peat. Arigna provided competitively priced electricity in the eighties. It was then economic and very acceptable and Governments were delighted to have it.

The Minister says that things have changed and the ESB face a £2.8 million handicap by continuing to operate this station. What will happen if these workers are laid off and go on the dole? The Government will pay out about £1.5 million in social welfare to these workers and their families and will forego an equivalent sum in lost tax and PRSI payments. The £2.8 million handicap would be wiped out by what the Government would have to forego in tax revenue or pay out in social welfare. We must look at it in that context when examining an area like this which has been dogged with major employment problems over the years. It is crucial to keep job opportunities alive for these workers.

We can recognise that in the long term there will not be such a great future for a power station in the area, if the Minister's figures stand up but, on the other hand, the Minister told us that there are very encouraging signs from the geological surveys showing that there are further reserves to be exploited, and that there is an opportunity for development. What I find incredible about the Minister's position is that he is quite happy to countenance the closure of mines and the dispersion of a valuable workforce of 200 skilled mining people while he says that he hopes there will be a future for coal mining in the area.

How can the Minister say that we should disperse the workforce while he continues to study the possibility of producing new resources and expanding the industry once again? The Minister said last night that we should wait and see and that in about a month he might have the report of the task force and the geological survey. Does the Minister realise that in a month the mines will be closed and the workers will be gone? The hour glass is running out for these workers. There is no point in the Minister saying that he will come up with ideas as to how this industry can be kept going for many years to come, while allowing the mines to be closed down while the Minister studies the opportunities. We have here an area involving six parishes and four counties. Not only are the 200 people concerned earning an income for themselves and their immediate families they are also doing so for the region where there are very few other wage packets of the scale involved. We simply cannot say to the people living in that region that we are to go ahead and close the mines and that perhaps at some stage in the future we may come up with an alternative.

Last night the Minister gave us very depressing news in relation to the setting up of a wood pulp industry in the Arigna area. Many peope had hoped that such an industry would be the source of alternative employment for the workers of Argina. The Minister went on to say that a location in the north west would be suitable but added that Arigna did not appear to have the advantages required. This nails one of the possible recommendations of the task force and one opportunity for workers in this area.

I welcomed the estabishment of a task force but it has to be said that this proposal was made at the eleventh hour. The task force was established in February when political pressure in the area was mounting and the Minister wanted something to hide his nakedness. It is too much to expect a task force to come up with viable projects in a matter of five or six months. To date, there are no signs that any viable projects have been found. I searched the Minister's speech in vain for any solid project about to be established to offer employment for those living in the area.

I am not surprised that the task force have not found it possible to achieve results in the time available to them. It takes time, certainly longer than six months, to come up with viable projects on the scale necessary. I do not believe for one moment that the report of the task force when it comes to hand some time after the mines have been closed will suggest viable projects to be set up as alternatives. History shows that the promises made have not come to fruition. The people of Tuam, Thurles and, indeed, Ballyforan in County Roscommon would testify to the fact that these promises have not led to the creation of employment which is badly needed.

That is one of the reasons the Minister should take on board the suggestion that we postpone the closure of the mines and give the task force more time to come up with projects. I was somewhat puzzled when the Minister indicated last night that it would be insane to continue to mine coal beyond the end of July. In February the Minister thought the sensible thing to do was to continue mining beyond the end of March, the proposed closure date.

Minister for Energy (Mr. Molloy)

The Deputy did not hear me say that.

Mr. R. Bruton

I and others urged the Minister to say that.

Mr. Molloy

I did not say that.

Mr. R. Bruton

That is the impression that this side of the House got——

Mr. Molloy

Only an impression.

Mr. R. Bruton

The Minister——

Mr. Molloy

The Deputy did not hear me say that.

An Leas-Cheann Comhairle

I am sure Deputy Bruton accepts that the Minister states he did not say it.

Mr. R. Bruton

The impression we got is that it would be extremely difficult to continue mining beyond the end of July. We will have to recall that the Minister recognised in February that the proposed closure date of the end of March would have to be extended to see if alternative sources of employment could be found. We are now approaching the end of July, yet we have nothing to offer to the people of the area. How can the Minister expect those people to believe him when he says that we should let the mines close and that we will come up with alternatives in the future? If the mines close amd the workforce are dispersed they will soon find that they are unable to pay high mortgages or to continue to live in the area. Even though the Minister may be committed to coming up with new ideas people will not wait if they have no wage packet coming in to repay their mortgages or sustain their young families.

This motion offers the Minister the opportunity to extend the proposed closure date and come forward with new ideas. I hope that alternative employment can be provided in the mining industry but I accept this may not be possible. Last night the Minister dismissed the idea of establishing an enterprise fund which is at the heart of the motion. He said it was not necessary to establish such a fund. He also indicated that the Government would support any viable project. As I said, those facing the prospect of collecting the dole at the end of the month will take no encouragement from the Government's commitment to support any viable project. Therefore I ask the Minister to think again and establish an enterprise fund. I would also remind him that the workers have not been idle and have come forward with very solid suggestions on what can be done to improve and develop their area.

The establishment of an enterprise fund is at the heart of their proposals. This fund would be made up not only of funds provided by the ESB, who have expressed a willingness to provide funds, but also funds provided by the Government. I can well understand the reason the establishment of such a fund is at the heart of their proposals because without money the task force is working with one hand behind its back. The way in which other countries provided assistance once industries began to decline was through the establishment of a fund, with the workers, businesses in the area and the local authorities and agencies getting behind it, to fund viable projects. The establishment of an enterprise fund lies at the heart of the strategies adopted in the UK and other western European countries whose coal industries are declining, with small and medium-sized enterprises being able to tap this fund. The Minister is not being sincere when he ignores the examples which have been given.

Let me repeat that our solid fuel industry is not the only one going through a very difficult period. At present Germany, Spain, the United Kingdom and France are undertaking massive revitalisation programmes in their coal regions. What we are seeking this evening is a revitalisation programme for the Arigna area in the same way as the German, British and Spanish Governments have drawn up revitalisation programmes for their coal mining regions. It is crucial that we, too, travel along that road. I doubt if there is anyone who would criticise the Minister for establishing an enterprise fund given that other European countries have established such funds with European Community funding. It is a tragedy that the Government last year did not avail of the opportunity to seek European Community funding for the task force and an enterprise fund. Such funding was made available under the Rechar programme to be invested in depressed coal mining regions. Unfortunately, the Government let this opportunity slip. Because of this blunder there is an onus on the Government to come up with a sensible set of proposals before the mines close to ensure that alternative employment is made available.

I would ask the Minister at this stage to reconsider our proposal. I am happy to accept the amendment offered by the Labour Party. It amplifies our existing proposal. I hope that the Minister at this late stage will see the wisdom of what the workers and the community in the Arigna area have put forward in the way of an enterprise fund as a solid way forward to exploit not only the coal industry, which hopefully will be a viable prospect, but also the very many other economic opportunities that are available to the region.

Amendment put.

The Dáil divided: Tá, 75; Níl, 71.

Tá

• Ahern, Bertie.
• Ahern, Dermot.
• Ahern, Michael.
• Andrews, David.
• Barrett, Michael.
• Brady, Gerard.
• Brady, Vincent.
• Brennan, Mattie.
• Brennan, Séamus.
• Briscoe, Ben.
• Browne, John (Wexford).
• Burke, Raphael P.
• Calleary, Seán.
• Callely, Ivor.
• Clohessy, Peadar.
• Connolly, Ger.
• Coughlan, Mary Theresa.
• Cowen, Brian.
• Cullimore, Séamus.
• Daly, Brendan.
• Davern, Noel.
• Dempsey, Noel.
• Dennehy, John.
• de Valera, Síle.
• Ellis, John.
• Fahey, Frank.
• Fahey, Jackie.
• Fitzgerald, Liam Joseph.
• Fitzpatrick, Dermot.
• Flood, Chris.
• Flynn, Pádraig.
• Gallagher, Pat the Cope.
• Geoghegan-Quinn, Máire.
• Harney, Mary.
• Hillery, Brian.
• Hilliard, Colm.
• Jacob, Joe.
• Kelly, Laurence.
• Kenneally, Brendan.
• Kirk, Séamus.
• Kitt, Tom.
• Lawlor, Liam.
• Lenihan, Brian.
• Leonard, Jimmy.
• Leyden, Terry.
• Martin, Micheál.
• McCreevy, Charlie.
• McDaid, Jim.
• McEllistrim, Tom.
• Molloy, Robert.
• Nolan, M.J.
• Noonan, Michael J. (Limerick West).
• O'Connell, John.
• O'Dea, Willie.
• O'Donoghue, John.
• O'Hanlon, Rory.
• O'Keeffe, Ned.
• O'Kennedy, Michael.
• O'Leary, John.
• O'Malley, Desmond J.
• O'Rourke, Mary.
• O'Toole, Martin Joe.
• Power, Seán.
• Quill, Máirín.
• Reynolds, Albert.
• Roche, Dick.
• Smith, Michael.
• Stafford, John.
• Tunney, Jim.
• Wallace, Dan.
• Wallace, Mary.
• Walsh, Joe.
• Wilson, John P.
• Woods, Michael.
• Wyse, Pearse.

Níl

• Ahearn, Therese.
• Allen, Bernard.
• Barnes, Monica.
• Barrett, Seán.
• Barry, Peter.
• Bell, Michael.
• Belton, Louis J.
• Boylan, Andrew.
• Bradford, Paul.
• Browne, John (Carlow-Kilkenny).
• Bruton, Richard.
• Byrne, Eric.
• Carey, Donal.
• Connaughton, Paul.
• Connor, John.
• Cosgrave, Michael Joe.
• Cotter, Bill.
• Creed, Michael.
• Currie, Austin.
• Deasy, Austin.
• Deenihan, Jimmy.
• De Rossa, Proinsias.
• Doyle, Joe.
• Durkan, Bernard.
• Enright, Thomas W.
• Fennell, Nuala.
• Ferris, Michael.
• FitzGerald, Garret.
• Flaherty, Mary.
• Flanagan, Charles.
• Foxe, Tom.
• Gilmore, Eamon.
• Gregory, Tony.
• Harte, Paddy.
• Higgins, Jim.
• Higgins, Michael D.
• Hogan, Philip.
• Howlin, Brendan.
• Kavanagh, Liam.
• Kemmy, Jim.
• Kenny, Enda.
• Lee, Pat.
• Lowry, Michael.
• McCormack, Pádraic.
• McGahon, Brendan.
• McGinley, Dinny.
• Mac Giolla, Tomás.
• McGrath, Paul.
• Mitchell, Gay.
• Mitchell, Jim.
• Moynihan, Michael.
• Nealon, Ted.
• Noonan, Michael. (Limerick East).
• O'Keeffe, Jim.
• O'Shea, Brian.
• O'Sullivan, Gerry.
• O'Sullivan, Toddy.
• Owen, Nora.
• Pattison, Séamus.
• Quinn, Ruairí.
• Rabbitte, Pat.
• Reynolds, Gerry.
• Ryan, Seán.
• Shatter, Alan.
• Sherlock, Joe.
• Spring, Dick.
• Stagg, Emmet.
• Taylor, Mervyn.
• Taylor-Quinn, Madeleine
• Timmins, Godfrey.
• Yates, Ivan.

Tellers: Tá, Deputies V. Brady and Clohessy; Níl, Deputies J. Higgins and Boylan.

Amendment declared carried.

Question: That the motion, as amended, be agreed to put and declared carried.