Dáil Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 12 Feb 1991

Vol. 404 No. 9

Ceisteanna—Questions. Oral Answers. - Long Term Unemployment.

John Bruton

Question:

1 Mr. J. Bruton asked the Taoiseach if he will outline the Ministers who will be responsible for the area based response to long term unemployment, outlined in section VII of the Programme for Economic and Social Progress; if any particular Minister has overall responsibility for this at present; if not, if he will designate a particular Minister for this role; the areas which are intended to operate pilot schemes for this area based response during 1991; and when details will be given of the specific budget for the relevant public authorities covering the areas in question.

The Taoiseach

Section VII of the Programme for Economic and Social Progress sets down how the new area-based response to long term unemployment will operate.

On the ratification of the new programme, the Central Review Committee supplemented by representatives from the Combat Poverty Agency, the Irish Resource Development Trust and the Trust for Community Initiatives will meet and make recommendations to Government on the appropriate arrangements for the establishment of local companies responsible for the scheme in each selected area.

The Programme makes it clear that the implementation of the new area-based response will be based on a specific budget prepared by the relevant public agencies in consultation with the local community for each participating local area. In addition provision of £0.5 million was made in this year's budget to cover the managerial costs of the local companies to be established. The public agencies will work through the local companies to implement the integrated response modules. The agencies will be responsible for the delivery of their relevant module element within the local budgets and will, therefore, be responsible to the relevant Ministers for their part in the new scheme. The Minister for Labour will have general responsibility for the schemes which will be monitored and co-ordinated by the Central Review Committee.

The Central Review Committee will meet before the end of this month if the new programme is ratified. The pilot areas have not been identified but they will be determined in due course in consultations between the Central Review Committee and the Government.

Mr. J. Bruton

Approximately what proportion of the total number of unemployed will be covered by one of the areas?

The Taoiseach

We do not know yet because we have not selected the pilot areas. We intend to get typical unemployment black spot areas in the different regions.

Mr. J. Bruton

Approximately how many areas does the Taoiseach expect will be selected? Will it be one, two, or ten? Who will have the final say in deciding whether an area should be selected? Will it be the Government, the Minister for Labour or the social partners? Are any arrangements being put in place to monitor the success of this in view of the fact that the National Economic and Social Council have said an area-based approach is in their view the only way of dealing with the problem of long term unemployment?

The Taoiseach

I would visualise about five areas or thereabouts so that we can get a good mix of different parts of the country and long term unemployment areas. The final selection will be made by the Government on the recommendation of the Central Review Committee as expanded for this purpose. The Central Review Committee will also, in consultation with the Minister for Labour, have the sort of monitoring the Deputy mentioned. I agree that would be a vitally important aspect of the work.

Mr. Quinn

Will the Taoiseach not agree that the Central Review Committee, who are comprised of essentially part-time people who are full-time and busy elsewhere, have not the time, the application or the expertise to take on this £0.5 million additional budget provision of the Department of the Taoiseach? Will the Taoiseach agree that, properly speaking, the task he has described and set out in the Programme for Economic and Social Progress should be assigned in its entirety to FÁS who could identify for him this afternoon the five regions because they have done the surveys already? On the basis of what he has just said, will the Taoiseach not further agree that this is an unnecessary aggrandisement of the Department of the Taoiseach when the task should be, with all due respect, given to the Minister for Labour who has the expertise and the resources to do it?

An Ceann Comhairle

Let us not engage in over-long questioning please.

The Taoiseach

The Deputy is under a slight misapprehension about the budget. The £0.5 million in the budget is to provide the companies that will be set up in local areas with managerial resources. Basically, those companies will be doing the work in the selected areas, not the Central Review Committee. The Central Review Committee will have a monitoring, co-ordinating and advisory role but the basic responsibility will be with the Minister for Labour. This is what everybody has agreed as the best approach.

Mr. Quinn

We have not agreed it.

The Taoiseach

Touché. I hope, though, Deputies will agree when they have listened to my persuasive arguments. I should have said this is what everybody in the preliminary stages of the evolution of this approach has agreed. As Deputies know, it began with the NESC report, developed from there and is now included in the programme. It is a good approach, it is a combination. It is mainly focused on the ground. All the national agencies involved, Departments, bodies, local trade unions, local employers and representatives of the local community will be the people on the ground who will do the work. A special company will be set up in each area with the managerial resources to direct and implement the whole thing.

Mr. Quinn

It is a managerial nightmare.

An Ceann Comhairle

Let us come to deal with another question. Deputy Bruton, a final question please.

Mr. J. Bruton

Will the Taoiseach give an assurance that the areas will be selected on the basis of objective statistics concerning the level of long term unemployment and not on the basis of political considerations in view of the bad experience we have had with Government allocations on a geographic basis in matters such as the allocation of funds from the national lottery?

The Taoiseach

That is a most unworthy suggestion.

Mr. J. Mitchell

But true.

The Taoiseach

Partly in answer to Deputy Quinn, the main guidance, monitoring and co-ordination will come from the Central Review Committee. Let me point out, also in response to Deputy Quinn and I mean to say it in reply to his supplementary question, that the Department of Labour are already running a separate type of pilot scheme not unrelated to this. Deputy Bruton will accept that the areas selected for that scheme are selected entirely on objective statistical criteria as those others will be too.

Mr. J. Bruton

I want to make sure that will be so here.

Proinsias De Rossa

Has the Taoiseach information available to him to indicate whether this new scheme will have a job placement role, whether that job placement role would be a direct function of FÁS or whether it is intended that FÁS would devolve at least some of that function in black spots with regard to organisations or groups, such as the Ballymun Job Centre which has now been running for three years quite successfully and may even have been the original version of this idea now being promoted?

An Ceann Comhairle

We are having an injection of extraneous matter.

The Taoiseach

Job placement will be a very important part of the work and, to that extent, FÁS will undertake that aspect just as all the other participating agencies will work with the company in the area in carrying out their different functions whether it be educational, placement, training or simply the provision of jobs. They will all work together under the umbrella of the company to do the job.