Vol. 405 No. 2
8 Mr. Barry asked the Minister for Foreign Affairs if he will raise with the British Prime Minister the dangers posed by submarines to fishing boats in the Irish Sea and the joint action which might be taken by both Governments in the matter.
69 Mr. Barry asked the Minister for Foreign Affairs if he will raise at the European General Affairs Council, the danger posed to trawlers by submarines; and if he wil seek to have a new code of conduct established for submarines operating in Community waters.
70 Mr. Barry asked the Minister for Foreign Affairs if he has made representations to the British Government to ensure that submarines operating in the Irish Sea travel on the surface in order to avoid loss of life to fishermen and damage to fishing equipment.
I propose to take Questions Nos. 8, 69 and 70 together.
Under international law submarines have the right of innocent passage without notification through territorial waters provided they travel on the surface and fly their national flags. Outside territorial limits, in international waters there is no restriction on their passage whether on the surface or submerged.
While this is the extent of the position under international law, I believe that there is reason for very serious concern about the dangers which could arise in the event of an accident involving a nuclearpowered, or nuclear-armed submarine; and about the hazards that submerged submarines can pose to shipping in narrow seas. For this reason, the Government have repeatedly called for a sense of responsibility on the part of the countries which operate these vessels; and we avail of every opportunity in international fora, such as the United Nations and the International Maritime Organisation, to focus attention on the danger. Furthermore, whenever a specific incident involving an Irish vessel occurs and the nationality of the submarine concerned can be identified, we take the matter up directly with the authorities of the country responsible.
The Deputy will be aware of the tragic incident involving a Scottish fishing vessel, the Antares, in the Firth of Clyde on 22 November 1990, in which four fishermen lost their lives. I understand that a number of practical measures are being considered by the British authorities to reduce the risks that such accidents will occur in future. We are seeking information from the British authorities about the steps they are taking in this regard and seeking to establish whether these measures could be applied more generally in the Irish Sea.
So far these contacts have been at official level but I do not exclude the possibility of an approach at political level if this should prove necessary.
The question of submarines operating in the Irish Sea has not so far been raised at the General Affairs Council. In accordance with international law the safety of a vessel at sea is the responsibility of the flag state. Member states of the Community take the view that international measures in relation to maritime safety are best considered on a global rather than on a regional basis and they regard the International Maritime Organisation as the most appropriate forum for this.
My view, which is shared by the Tánaiste and Minister for the Marine, is that the opportunity for co-operation in this area within the Community context should be further explored and I am having this done.
I can assure the Deputy that this whole matter is one of considerable concern to the Government and that we will continue to keep it under close and active consideration to see whether there is anything further that could be done.
I am quite disappointed to learn that this matter has not been raised at ministerial level to date in the light of the vast number of incidents over a number of years — even before the Scottish accident there was the case of the Sheralga and other boats. Would the Minister give a commitment to the House that this matter will be taken up at ministerial level? Second, will the Minister try to get a response from the UK authorities to the simple question which most of us ask in relation to the Irish Sea: why do the submarines not travel on the surface? The cold war is over and why do the submarines lurk in the deep causing problems for fishing boats and nets?
The second part of the Deputy's supplementary questions were answered in my reply when I referred to the rules and regulations that govern such travel in international waters. This, of course, pertains to the Irish Sea and this matter has been debated in this House on a number of occasions.
With regard to the first part of the Deputy's question I said in my reply that we were investigating the possibility of raising the matter within the Community in consultation and in co-operation with the Tánaiste, the Minister for the Marine.
I would like the Minister to be a lot more forthcoming.
I am doing the best I can. If we feel we can make progress on the matter to any degree, we are quite prepared to do so.
Arising from the Minister's reply, specifically in relation to Question No. 8, would the Minister agree that this could usefully be examined by the Anglo-Irish parliamentary tier? If so, would he ask the parliamentary tier to examine this matter because it concerns not only both parts of this island, but also the neighbouring island?
The Deputy knows full well that I have no responsibility for matters raised at the particular level to which Deputy Mitchell has referred. If they were to consider that it should be raised by them, that is a matter for themselves. Perhaps this is a much wider issue than an issue between the Governments of Britain and Ireland because the waters of the Irish Sea are regarded as international waters and neither the British nor ourselves would have jurisdiction over the waters in question where I believe the submarines normally travel. If my office can be of any help to Deputy Mitchell or his colleagues on the committee in this respect if they decide to go ahead with Deputy Mitchell's suggestion, I will be glad to oblige with any help or information we can give him.
I raised it at the Anglo-Irish parliamentary body.
Why has the Deputy not succeeded with the matter?
Ministerial action is necessary.
If I might disturb this cosy exchange and get a little beyond the high moral tone of our foreign policy and our encouragement of the world navies to operate with a sense of responsibility, may I ask the Minister if it is not a fact that there is absolutely nothing in the international statutes to which he has referred which precludes bilateral arrangements between countries for safety in relation to the passage of submarines and that it would be immensely valuable if, for example, he announced to the House that he was seeking to establish a code which he would communicate with known users of the Irish Sea as a submarine corridor?
While wishing to be helpful to the Deputy, I think he probably misreads the extent of the problem. It is not a problem that can be resolved between the British and Irish Governments even in relation to the Irish Sea because other nations would have the right to use the international waters between the two islands.
