It is proposed to take No. 9.
Order of Business.
I beg your permission, a Cheann Comhairle, to move a motion under Standing Order 143 to rescind those sections of the Time Allocation Motion of Thursday, 4 July 1991 which deal specifically with Estimates in order to provide for a separate debate on each of the spending Estimates before the House.
I have to tell Deputy Flanagan that I cannot allow a Private Members' motion to suspend Standing Orders to be moved in Government time. This is in accordance with long standing precedent.
May I ask the Government to give consideration to allowing this motion in the interests of parliamentary democracy and the ordering the business of this House in keeping with the long standing tradition of providing time for a proper debate on the spending of £6.7 billion? Members on this side of the House, and Government backbenchers, should be given the opportunity to scrutinise the Estimates and ask questions of the various Ministers.
The Deputy may not elaborate now.
I find it difficult to take this proposal seriously.
The Taoiseach would.
Dictator.
I am afraid the Opposition are playing a sort of parliamentary game.
That is what the Taoiseach thinks of Parliament.
The position is that the Government have leaned over backwards to facilitate the Opposition in regard to this matter.
Deputies
Hear, hear.
Rubbish.
Let us hear the Taoiseach without interruption.
In the Government of which Deputy Bruton was a member, Estimates were frequently put through this House in a very short period of time.
By agreement, and not en bloc.
A Deputy
One by one.
On this occasion the Government first proposed that the normal practice be followed, but in deference to the wishes of the Opposition parties, which I understood at that time included Fine Gael, we agreed to a different form this time because Deputies opposite were anxious to discuss the general financial situation. In order to facilitate such a discussion the Whips agreed, perhaps with the exception of the Fine Gael Whip, to this new procedure——
The Government are prepared to breach the terms of the Constitution.
——and extended the time to 21 hours.
It would not matter if the Government extended it to 21 weeks.
The Opposition parties also sought a debate on agriculture, which has been granted.
After what happened last Thursday the Government had no option but to grant it.
They also wanted a debate on European union, which has also been granted. I believe the Government have been generous to the extreme in trying to facilitate the wishes of the Opposition in the handling of parliamentary business.
The Government are breaching the terms of the Constitution.
Mr. J. Bruton rose.
I must assert that the business of this day was determined by the House yesterday and, consequently, I cannot at this stage entertain any extraneous matter. However, I will hear Deputy Bruton briefly.
This is the first time in the history of Dáil Éireann that the Government have asked this House to agree to all the Estimates for public expenditure en bloc in one debate without any possibility of individual Estimates being scrutinised or Ministers being questioned on them.
Hear, hear.
This is not acceptable to my party as Deputies on all sides of the House will be denied the opportunity of querying individual Ministers about the Government's intentions for cuts in spending once the Dáil has been sent safely on its holidays.
Fine Gael agreed with those cuts. What is the difference in their policy?
(Interruptions.)
Fine Gael believe it is essential in the interests of parliamentary democracy that there be individual scrutiny of Estimates and questioning of Ministers.
(Interruptions.)
Deputy Bruton, the views expressed now are ones which can be expressed during the course of the debate on the Estimates. I am now asking the Minister for Finance to move the Estimates in question.
Sir, I have not concluded.
Perhaps the Deputy was not listening to me.
I have a question on the Order of Business.
The Order of Business is as the Taoiseach announced.
On the Order of Business, the Fine Gael Party have tabled a motion of no confidence in the Coalition Government. On most previous occasions when motions of confidence or no confidence were tabled — October 1974, October 1976, July 1982 and February 1986 — the Government of the day immediately provided Government time for a debate on the motion. In view of the fact that the main Opposition party have tabled a motion of no confidence in the Government, may I ask if the Government will provide time so that this motion can be taken quickly?
No, Sir.
(Interruptions.)
Now we have the jackboot——
This is the difference.
I have to say again that I regard this motion as nothing more than parliamentary gamesmanship. It is not a serious motion and does not address itself, as normal votes of no confidence do, to the Government's behaviour, the conduct of the economy or the nation's affairs.
It does.
It is too close to the knuckle.
This motion of no confidence put down by Fine Gael refers exclusively to the handling of parliamentary business.
It does not. The motion refers to financial business——
(Interruptions.)
I am now calling on the Minister for Finance to move the Estimates.
May I make a point of order?
On a point of order——
The Chair will not entertain any points of order when he is on his feet and dealing with the business of this House.
Before I am totally muzzled by the Government, may I, as a Member of this House, make a point of order? That is all I am asking.
Let us hear it.
I appeal to you as our Chairman to say whether it is accepted practice in every parliamentary democracy that the tabling of a motion of no confidence is given precedence over other business? Do you not accept that the attitude of the Government will mean that this motion of no confidence will not be taken for four months?
That is not a point of order.
It is not a matter for the Chair as to whether a motion of no confidence shall be taken or not. Usually it is taken in Government time but, of course, it may be taken in Private Members' time.
They have abolished Private Members' time next week by way of their guillotine motion.
(Interruptions.)
Fine Gael agreed not to have Private Members' time next week despite the fact that The Worker's Party denounced this proposal.
The Deputy betrayed his people.
I am now calling on the Minister to move the Estimates.
On a point of order——
I will hear no further points of order. The Order of Business is clear and was determined this morning. Members cannot raise points of order on it.
(Interruptions.)