Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 7 Nov 1991

Vol. 412 No. 3

Ceisteanna — Questions. Oral Answers. - Irish Aid Programme.

Tomás MacGiolla

Question:

10 Tomás Mac Giolla asked the Minister for Foreign Affairs whether he will consider establishing formal structures to allow greater participation by voluntary relief and development organisations in decisions on (1) management of the Irish aid programme (2) allocation of funds (3) direction of the Irish bilateral programme and (4) in ongoing reviews and evaluations; whether he is considering agreeing a charter for voluntary non-governmental relief and development organisations with these organisations; and if he will make a statement on the matter.

Jim O'Keeffe

Question:

120 Mr. J. O'Keeffe asked the Minister for Foreign Affairs when he proposes to publish the outstanding reports of the Advisory Council on Development Co-operation; and whether this will be done prior to the abolition of the council.

Nora Owen

Question:

124 Mrs. Owen asked the Minister for Foreign Affairs when he proposes to publish the last two reports submitted to him by the Advisory Council on Development Co-operation on (1) overview of Irish Development Aid and (2) Gender issues in Development.

Mr. Collins

I propose to take Questions Nos. 10, 120 and 124 together.

An overview of Ireland's aid programme has recently been completed by the Advisory Council on Development Co-operation. This report has been submitted to me and I am considering its contents.

The ground covered in the report i very extensive. It touches on a wide range of issues related to the objectives and the implementation of the official aid programme as well as the role of non-governmental organisations in Irish aid. The possibility of new structures for the management and implementation of the official ODA programme is one of the areas considered. I am at present giving careful study to the report in all its aspects. In view of the wide scope of the issues it raises, it would be premature at this stage to make comments on individual aspects.

In addition to the overview of Irish aid, the Advisory Council on Development Co-operation has also completed a report on gender and Irish aid, which is being studied by my Department.

I hope to be in a position to have both reports published at an early date. They will provide a very useful stimulus to the debate among interested organisations and individuals on a large number of issues related to Ireland's aid programme.

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy Jim O'Keeffe, whose Question No. 120 refers.

Mr. J. O'Keeffe

Would the Minister not accept that the Advisory Council on Development Co-operation, which has been in existence since 1979 and which the Minister now proposes to chop, has done excellent work throughout the years, largely on a completely voluntary basis, that the small grant available to the council to cover its expenses is inconsequential in relation to the value of reports received and the work done by the council and that it is a criminal disgrace that the council is now being abolished?

Mr. Collins

That is a separate question in itself. However, I can say that the reason for the council's abolition was the need to find savings in all areas of public expenditure. I assure the Deputy that the decision was taken with regret and only after careful consideration. I intend to establish an informal independent committee to advise me on development assistance matters. When the Government decision was taken to abolish the ACDC it was agreed that the council would remain in existence until the end of this year specifically to allow the completion of the two reports to which I have referred. As I said, the reports have now been completed and there remains only the question of publication.

Proinsias De Rossa

The Minister refers to a report on an overview of ODA. Could he indicate who has prepared this report and whether any decisions or any action have yet arisen from that report? Does he not consider that the abolition of the ACDC was a pre-emptive move he made in relation to our aid programme and that it was improper of him if he is still considering the overview report to have taken the step of abolishing the advisory committee? It seems extraordinary that there is a major review under way yet one of the key bodies that has been advising the Minister is abolished before that review is completed.

Mr. Collins

I think that is not as accurate as it should be, a Cheann Comhairle. The report was completed and, as I have already said to the House, the council were allowed to complete its report. They were given an extension after the Government decision was made. The other report to which the Deputy referred was requested by the Minister of State at the Department of Foreign Affairs, Deputy Seán Calleary, from the ACDC and they then got that report for him.

Mr. J. O'Keeffe

Would the Minister not accept, now that he has put Ireland in the position at which we hold the disgraceful distinction of being bottom of the league of OECD countries in relation to overseas development aid, that this really is the last straw? Furthermore, would he not accept that the £80,000 in savings, which will be offset no doubt by the cost of the new committee, will not appreciably change what we can do in relation to overseas development aid? Finally, because of the outstanding work that has been done by the council, with occasional criticisms here and there — which, perhaps, might be the real reason for their abolition — would the Minister now undertake in the light of the views expressed in the House to review the decision in a fair way and not to go ahead with the abolition at all?

Mr. Collins

The Deputy knows full well from statements made already on this matter and from what I have said here today that there was a Government decision taken for the reasons I have given. I point out to the Deputy that the cost of running that council was about £80,000 a year——

Mr. J. O'Keeffe

Yes.

Mr. Collins

——that the replacement committee will not have costs of that size — it will not have any costs at all — and that any additional savings will go to overseas development aid. I also tell the Deputy that there are other questions on the Order Paper that deal in greater detaíl with the amounts of moneys that may or may not be considered for this particular purpose in the coming year. Of course, all of us would wish that more moneys were available than are available at present.

Mr. Connor

The Minister has announced, although I did not hear the details very well, that he is to set up a new advisory committee to advise him on the overseas development aid programme. Would he not degree at this stage, since he will not agree to the establishment of a foreign affairs committee, to a re-establishment of the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Co-operation with Developing Countries, which operated very well within the House between 1983 and 1986 at, I am sure, a very small cost?

Mr. Collins

I am sorry, I beg your pardon.

Mr. Connor

The point I make is that the Minister is setting up a committee to replace the advisory council. I wonder whether he would not at this stage agree to the re-establishment of the Oireachtas Joint Committee on Co-operation with Developing Countries, which operated in this House very successfully between 1983 and 1986, and at an earlier stage. Quite obviously the Minister cannot give his consent, or he has so indicated, to a full foreign affairs committee, but I am sure that this committee operated at a very cheap rate, if I might put it that way, and gave very good advice to the Government and Minister at the time.

Mr. Collins

I would be the last person to suggest to this House that we would want a cheap rate committee in any form for any purpose. But committees are not what are at issue here today. Rather it is a question of how we can find additional resources to fulfil commitments about which we all believe we should be more generous.

Mr. M. Higgins

May I tease out one aspect of the Minister's reply, sticking strictly to the wording of the question in that he has been asked to reconsider his decision to abolish formal structures and, in replying, stated that he would have a set of informal advisers available to him. If we have learned anything about development and development education, would the Minister and his Minister of State not agree that this is evidenced by the establishment of a department in Development Studies, in University College, Dublin that it is an area of expertise, one that affects, for example, the existing 2,000 development workers and the couple of hundred companies involved. My question to the Minister is this: how can something that has become complex and requires professional reports be handed to an informal body? If he is doing that, would he not agree that an informal body, of its nature, will not be able to meet as regularly? Would he agree that what it means in fact is that his Department are colonising even more so what was previously development? Furthermore, would he not agree that it means that a couple of civil servants will now take back everything that was being done, so that we will have decisions being taken by the Departments of Finance, Foreign Affairs and others who will not necessarily have development expertise?

An Ceann Comhairle

This is a very long question, Deputy.

Mr. M. Higgins

It is a very serious issue.

Mr. Collins

I can understand why the Deputy says what he does. But the Deputy must understand from me that Department of Finance officials will not be involved in any decision making with regard to where our aid should go; that is a matter for the Minister for Foreign Affairs and his Minister of State.

Mr. M. Higgins

But they have already, for example, the World Bank.

Mr. Collins

They will draw on all the advice available to them. I should say there is much advice available to us. We will not be short of any advisers and will be able to dispense with the £80,000, or whatever was the amount, perhaps a little more than that. If we can utilise that money in a more productive way on the ground, then we shall do so.

Mr. J. O'Keeffe

A very bad mistake.

Proinsias De Rossa

Question No. 10 seeks to elicit specific information from the Minister with regard to the establishment of formal structures to allow greater participation by voluntary relief and development organisations in decisions on management, the allocation of funds, the direction of our bilateral aid programme, and specifically asks whether he is considering to agree a charter for voluntary, non-governmental relief and development organisations. In response to that question the Minister said: well, we have an overview report commissioned by the Minister of State but in the meantime we are abolishing the Advisory Council which has been giving us advice and who are experts in this area. There appears to be a contradiction if, on the one hand, the Minister is commissioning studies, looking into the future, while at the same time abolishing the committee of experts who are advising him in this area with a saving of £84,000. It just does not make sense and appears to confirm what Deputy Michael Higgins was saying — that we are approaching circumstances in which it will be financial constraints that will henceforth dictate policy in the area of bilateral and multilateral aid. Would the Minister confirm that at an early date, within a matter of weeks, he will announce the Government's intention with regard to the direction of management and allocation, particularly with regard to our bilateral aid programme, for the next three to four years?

Mr. Collins

The Deputy must realise that in every area of policy financial considerations are an element to be taken into account when decisions are being taken on implementation of policy.

Proinsias De Rossa

But not solely.

Mr. Collins

That is a fact of life from which we cannot escape. What is important is to ascertain how best we can marshal our resources, how best we can get advice that will not cost us the same amount of money it cost us in the past. I am satisfied that advice is available so that we will be able to continue our programme and, hopefully, improve it considerably as our economy improves. That is important. I do not think any Member of this House gets any joy for a second out of the fact that we are not doing as well in regard to development aid as we would like.

Mr. J. O'Keeffe

It is disgraceful.

Mr. Collins

I would say to Deputy O'Keeffe that there is another question tabled which we may not reach this afternoon. The amount of money given by way of aid in 1991 was the highest in quite a long number of years.

Mr. J. O'Keeffe

It was reduced from 0.26 down to 0.16 per cent of GNP.

Mr. Collins

I am not simply trying to get myself out of a tight corner on supplementary questions; I am genuinely telling the Deputy that the amount of money given in 1991 for aid far exceeded anything given for the previous five or six years.

Mr. McCormack

What hopes or plans has the Minister to get the Department of Finance to increase our annual allocation of aid to 0.7 per cent of GNP, as recommended by the United Nations, or what percentage of GNP does our contribution now represent?

Mr. Collins

The Deputy can rest assured that the Government, when making up their minds on Departmental Estimates, will have due regard to what is the overall position of national finances and be as generous as they can be in this area, in which everybody would like to be generous. Hopefully, we will be more generous than we have been. I think our contribution at present stands at 0.18 or 0.19 per cent of GNP.

Mr. J. O'Keeffe

It would be 0.16 per cent of GNP if one excludes——

Mr. Collins

I think it is 0.18 per cent of GNP. Anyway, we are not making an issue out of that. For the sake of this question we are not making an issue out of that.

Mr. McCormack

It is a good job we are not.

Mr. Collins

All I can say in reply to the Deputy is that the Departmental Estimates for 1992 are being prepared. The Government are discussing the position generally of all Departments. It would be my hope that we can convince our Government colleagues to help us achieve the Estimate target we have placed before them for consideration.

Proinsias De Rossa

May I seek clarification with regard to the Minister's statement that last year's allocation was the highest ever. Would he confirm that that increase arose directly from the aid we allocated to states involved in the war against Iraq?

Mr. Collins

The Deputy should be careful in quoting me. I did not say it was the highest ever. I said it was the highest in quite a number of years. Irrespective of the reasons for it, the fact of the matter is that perhaps other areas were denied additional moneys so that we could meet the demands being made on us during 1991.