Vol. 413 No. 3
10 Mr. Stagg asked the Minister for Social Welfare if his attention has been drawn to the visit by an official of his Department to Clane Garda station in County Kildare on 15 October 1991 to interview recipients of unemployment assistance and unemployment benefit; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
Entitlement to unemployment payments is subject to inter alia, the conditions that a claimant must be unemployed, available for, capable of and genuinely seeking employment. My Department must be satisfied that claimants continue to satisfy these conditions while they are in receipt of payment, and for this reason all claims are subject to review from time to time.
Two control officers of my Department's external control unit attended at the Clane Garda station on 22 October 1991 and accepted unemployment dockets from up to 350 persons, who prove unemployment there. The officers asked each person a few questions, to satisfy themselves that each docket was being presented by the person named on it, and that the conditions for receipt of unemployment payments were understood and met.
The information the Minister has given is not in accordance with the facts of the case. Among the unemployed the system we are dealing with is known as the heavy gang system. Is the Minister aware that on the day in question the officials arrived at the Garda station at 9.30 a.m. and delayed by about half an hour the first three applicants? In the meantime the other applicants had to stand in the rain and in public view while waiting to be interviewed. Is the Minister aware that the interview consists not only of a few questions but of an examination of shoes, of hands to check for welts and finger nails for dirt. The people are threatened that if they do not have a job by the time of the next visit their payments will be cut off. That occurs only occasionally but there seems to be a cycle of these visits. I ask the Minister to call off these officials from depressed rural areas in the midlands where there is no work available.
My note on the matter does not entirely correspond with the information provided by the Deputy, but I take the statement he made quite seriously. My information is that two officers from the external control unit arrived at the Garda station at 9.30 a.m. but the station did not open until 10.25 a.m. by which time 20 people had gathered. Therefore if people had to queue it was not the fault of the officers concerned. On gaining entry to the station the control officers dealt with the people who had gathered, and at no stage thereafter were there more than five people waiting to have their dockets accepted. The officers operate under standing instructions that no undue delay or inconvenience be caused to anybody. The operation at Clane Garda station continued until 1 p.m. and because of the large number of people to be dealt with, in general the interviews lasted for not much more than one minute. Officers have been instructed that on days of inclement weather there should be no queueing in the rain. However, my information is that the day in question was dry.
The average waiting time for the last 150 people interviewed was two and a quarter hours, as can be confirmed by people from the organisations for the unemployed who were sent for on that day. I ask the Minister to change the position whereby a tiny room is provided in a barracks for interview purposes and people have to wait in public view. Regardless of weather conditions, that is degrading to the people concerned and I know the Minister would not support that type of action. People are forced to say that they are genuinely seeking work when everybody knows that in the midlands there is no work available. Even Bord na Móna have to let people go, as the Minister and his colleague beside him knows.
I repeat that the control officers receive special training for this job.
I have no doubt about that. They are specialists.
Written guidelines are laid down as to their behaviour and duties.
That is why the unemployed call them the heavy gang.
They are instructed on interviewing techniques and are advised to treat all clients with tact and courtesy.
The Minister is confirming my worst opinions of these officers.
All questions must be relevant to determining the conditions for receipt of unemployment payments. There are only about 26 field staff involved and, in view of what the Deputy has said, I will ask officials of my Department to investigate the matter to see that the officers are complying with the instructions and are treating people with the courtesy and consideration they deserve.
