Dáil Éireann debate -
Wednesday, 27 Nov 1991

Vol. 413 No. 6

Adjournment Debate. - Dublin Juvenile Vandalism.

Mr. J. Mitchell

I want to express my thanks to you, a Cheann Comhairle, for choosing this important and urgent subject for debate tonight. In many ways this question, which was put down as a Private Notice Question yesterday, was anticipated by replies given by the Minister for Justice in the Dáil yesterday. However, this short debate will give the Minister an opportunity to elaborate on his wise proposals to deal urgently with the problem not only in Clondalkin but in the outer suburbs in general.

I want to refer to north Clondalkin, or is it Ronanstown or Neilstown? One of the problems is that this area does not even have a proper name. It was to be part of the new town of Lucan-Clondalkin which was to be one of three new suburban towns to the west of the city. The proposals for Tallaght and Blanchardstown went ahead but those for Lucan-Clondalkin did not go ahead. Therefore Ronanstown which was to form part of Lucan-Clondalkin is an isolated community without proper services, with no heart and, for many people, no hope. It has a lot of problems, one of which is that it has no shopping centre. The Balgaddy shopping centre which has been part of the draft plan for a long time, has not gone ahead. To some extent this has been adversely affected by the rezoning of the Quarryvale site not very far away. There are many provisions needed in this area. The local Deputies, including myself, have fought for these for a long time. As I said in a recent statement — the Minister made a similar comment in the House yesterday — allocating more gardaí to these areas is not the solution. Of course more gardaí are needed but that would be a one dimensional approach.

I support the initiative taken by the Minister for Justice in setting up an interdepartmental group provided it is not a talking shop or a delaying tactic, because that would be very unwise and is something which could explode in the Minister's face. I suggest to the Minister, for reasons which I will elaborate on shortly, that he extend the group to include Dublin Corporation and Dublin County Council. Another hopeless feature of what is properly called Ronanstown — it is called various names — is that most of the houses there are Dublin Corporation houses but the people do not elect city councillors. They elect county councillors who have no say in the provision of services for those houses. People, including public representatives, who wish to make inquiries about this area are sent from Billy to Jack. The county council say it is the responsibility of the corporation to provide certain services and vice versa. Therefore it is vital that the Minister include on the interdepartmental group an assistant city manager from the corporation as well as from the county council.

I mentioned that the area has no shopping centre. Neither has it an enterprise centre even though a site has been allocated by Dublin Corporation for such a centre. Despite the valiant efforts of myself and others in the last five years, calling meetings of public representatives, the IDA, FÁS, county councillors, corporation officials and health board officials, to try to set up an enterprise centre, we still have no such centre.

In the inner city, about which I now know a lot as a result of the changes in constituency boundaries, there are warehouses and old buildings where small factories and work units could be set up. People with skills could set up small businesses, thereby providing employment, but there are no such places in the new suburbs to set up enterprises. It is not surprising therefore that Deputy Ahern when Minister for Labour told me in this House only six months ago in reply to a question that in some estates in Ronanstown unemployment is as high as 70 per cent. I do not want to suggest that unemployment or poverty can be used as an excuse for some of the things that have happened in this and other areas in the last few weeks. That is not an excuse. Urgent action is needed. Hard-pressed as the Exchequer is, funds will have to be found for this area. In the past few years terrorist organisations have been very surreptitiously operating protection rackets in certain estates. We have kept quiet about it in order not to add further to the humiliation of the 90 per cent of good people who live in these estates. There are protection rackets in operation and urgent action is needed to put a stop to them.

Minister for Justice (Mr. Burke)

I have been taking a direct personal interest for some time in the difficulties with juvenile vandalism which has been emerging in some Dublin suburbs. Last May I visited these areas to see the situation for myself and had discussions with local gardaí and others. Subsequently, there has been a follow-up by senior gardaí and Department of Justice staff.

It was as a direct result of my inquiries in this regard that very worthwhile community projects were commenced over the summer months in Ronanstown and Killinarden. The recent difficulties in suburbs to the west and south of Dublin have prompted the Government to take special steps to improve the delivery of support and community services to these areas. I acknowlege Deputy Mitchell's support for the initiatives that have been announced.

We need to begin any discussion on this topic with a wider understanding of where and why trouble begins in such areas. The vast bulk of the population of these urban areas are decent law abiding citizens, supportive of community life and striving to do what they can to rear their families properly against a background which can at times be extremely trying.

Governments of every stripe have played their part in past mistakes and, indeed, in past and present efforts and initiatives to tackle the roots of urban vandalism, joyriding, etc. I do not think a partisan debate on this topic will get us much further in dealing with it and I am glad it is not taking place in such an atmosphere. I hope these remarks will set the right tone for my description of what I and my collegues have done to address the problem.

The first initiative taken by me in this area related to the setting up of a formal Garda schools programme to reach young people before they would enter the "at risk" category. It is now in place in several suburbs of Dublin and Limerick and will be further extended in the new year. I also approved at that time the first major re-organisation of the Garda juvenile liaison scheme in their 30 years in existence. That scheme now has a national director at Garda superintendent level and all the juvenile liaison officers have been enabled to work evenings and week-ends as part of our strategy to enhance the effectiveness of the juvenile liaison officer scheme.

The probation and welfare service of my Department and the local gardaí have initiated a whole series of local projects to deal with young people at risk in the community. Specific remedial projects for young offenders are at this stage in place in Cherry Orchard in Dublin and Southill in Limerick and also in Coolock and Darndale. Community projects, which are intended to spawn such young offender remedial projects have also been in place since the summer in Killinarden and Ronanstown, two of the locations mentioned in recent news stories and again in this Adjournment debate.

I want to pay tribute here to all the people and groups working on these ventures especially to the Foróige and Catholic Youth Council organisations. Unfortunately some young people at risk cannot be assisted effectively in the community setting. It is for this reason that we have the option of special education in a custodial setting at the discretion of our courts. There is a substantial provision made by the State in this regard under the aegis of my colleague, the Minister for Education with five institutions of various types having between them residential capacity of over 200 places.

This summer, following consultation with the president of the district court and the attorney general, I prevailed on the District Court Rules Committee to issue Rules of Court for the children's court which enable the authorities to compel the small minority of non cooperating parents of guardians of children and young persons to attend the court hearing where their child is charged with an offence. The rules include a warning notice which the Garda may serve on both parents of a child compelling their attendance at the court hearing. The courts have discretion to issue arrest warrants to compel attendance of persons who fail to comply with the warning notice. The new juvenile justice Bill, being prepared by my Department will, of course, update the whole law in this area of young people before the courts.

The agencies under the aegis of my ministerial colleagues in the Departments of the Environment, Labour and Social Welfare are all playing a major part in community centred initiatives for deprived areas. The valuable contribution of agencies like FÁS and the Combat Poverty Agency are also widely acknowledged.

On the specific issue of protection for fire brigade and other officers of the State attending for specific call-outs in these areas, I can assure the Deputy that the Garda Authorities are fully aware of this situation and have taken certain steps to deal with it. I want to compliment the fire brigade officers who have not allowed such incidents to deter them from carrying out their life preserving mission for the public.

Deputies will be aware that last evening, I met the Garda Commissioner and many of his management team for urgent talks on this whole issue. We comprehensively reviewed the policing situation here in Dublin and in other urban centres and agreed appropriate follow up on points which emerged. I am satisfied that the force at this time are very conscious of and committed to their responsibilities of preserving public order and the freedom of the public to go about their daily lives in peace and safety. The contribution made by garda at all levels towards the various community projects I mentioned earlier has been enormous. It is at times like this the public see how important the role of the force is in our national life.

We have to accept that the solution to the complex issues behind juvenile vandalism is not easy nor is it within the capacity of any single Minister or agency to do so. For this reason the Government have yesterday decided to bring together senior officials at Assistant Secretary level — in the Departments of the Environment, Education, Health, Labour and Social Welfare together with my own Department to look at these matters and to submit proposals as a matter of urgency. The reason the Department of the Environment are involved is to cover the complex issue of county council and corporation areas, but having listened to Deputy Mitchell, I will take his suggestions on board. The reason for bringing these officials together is to pool experience and provide a broad response to the difficulties on hands. There is no point in imagining — as some apparently do — that it is simply a matter of locking up a few ringleaders and temporarily slipping the problems under the carpet by means of this strategy.

A broader strategy is required. The aim is to make a genuine effort, now, to address the issues in a serious comprehensive manner and to try to improve matters within our resources, in whatever way we possibly can.