Vol. 413 No. 9
13 Mr. Howlin asked the Minister for Education if any research is being carried out by his Department as to the most beneficial age for the introduction of a European language in our schools; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
75 Mr. Howlin asked the Minister for Education the percentage of national schools which are supplying tuition in European language; and if he will make a statement in the context of equality of access, on the matter.
79 Mr. J. Higgins asked the Minister for Education if in the context of (1) the Green Paper on Education and (2) Economic and Monetary Union, he will reconsider the possibility of introducing the learning of a European language in primary school; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
279 Tomás Mac Giolla asked the Minister for Education if his attention has been drawn to the fact that a recent study showed that 24 per cent of primary schools offer a foreign language to pupils; and if he will outline his Department's plans with regard to foreign language teaching at primary level.
I propose to take Questions Nos. 13, 75, 79 and 279 together.
Research in this area is carried out by my Department on the basis of on-going monitoring and assessment of the provision for modern languages in the post-primary school system. It is the policy of my Department to encourage as many children as possible to take at least one European language in addition to Irish and English, from the beginning of their post-primary education, that is from age 12.
The Deputy will be aware that the Primary Curriculum Review Body considered the question of the introduction of a modern continental language in the senior classes of primary school but recommended against it.
The arguments relating to time and curriculum overload, as well as the demands of the two languages on the present curriculum, were cited as influencing this decision.
My Department, through the National Council for Curriculum and Assessment, are undertaking a full examination of the recommendations of the Primary Curriculum Review Body.
As European languages do not form part of the prescribed curriculum for primary schools the number of national schools which are supplying tuition in such languages is not available to my Department.
In respect of the timing of this question when we are on the verge of Maastricht and completing preparations for the internal market at the end of next year, would the Minister not agree that it is incumbent on him to have a policy for the development of Community languages which will be an integral part of the development of job opportunities for our young people in the integrated Europe post 1993?
The number of schools in the post primary sector which provide modern languages has increased by 63 per cent in the past ten years. This is a welcome increase. However, the review body decided against the introduction of modern languages in primary schools. I can understand their reasons for doing so. Given that they concentrate on solid educational matters, disadvantaged schools do not need or require them whereas some more well off schools would introduce them. At some date in the future languages should be introduced somewhere along the line. This is being done in some schools.
In relation to the substance of Question No. 13, do I take it that the Minister is telling us that the findings of the Primary Curriculum Review Body are ex cathedra? Is it the view of the Department that the most beneficial age for the introduction of a European language is the age at which children enter secondary school? Is the Minister not aware that the language aptitude of a person — there is such a thing as a language aptitude — goes into decline after age five? Children, at a young age, can easily absorb three languages. I do not think the Department have dealt with this question in depth, with respect.
I do not agree with the Deputy; some pupils have communication problems. People will have to be trained to teach languages. The Deputy has said that children as young as five can easily absorb languages but in many instances the results obtained in Irish and English up to the age of 12 have not been great, particularly among the disadvantaged.
Does the Minister accept the contention that it is desirable that the greatest possible number of school children should be able to speak at least one other European language when they leave the system? What practical steps has he taken to achieve that objective, including the introduction of a European language at the earliest possible date, as my colleague, Deputy O'Shea, has said, consistent with their ability to absorb such a language?
I am well aware that we have been at a disadvantage given that children in other European countries can speak two or three languages at home. I can see that it would be desirable but we are talking here about a tremendous spread of primary schools and of a requirement that teachers have French, German, Spanish or Italian. This is being done in some schools, although I do not have the statistics. We will probably look, at some date in the future, at such a plan.
A number of Deputies are offering and I want to facilitate them if they will please be brief.
Given that many graduates from our training colleges hold a degree in a foreign language, be it French or German, how does the Minister reconcile the fact that we are prepared to spend money in educating our teachers to become experts in foreign languages with the fact that we do not provide the facilities or the time for them to pass on that expertise to our children in primary schools?
As Deputy Ahearn is aware, in relation to the primary schools in her area, one would have to bring in someone else to teach another language.
Not in Grange.
I accept that but we could include many of the others. What I said was, in relation to the curriculum for schools, particularly disadvantaged schools, we would be aiding those pupils with more ability while leaving disadvantaged pupils out of the scene. If money is going to be put into it, we must concentrate on helping the disadvantaged to improve their lot and education. Unfortunately, the less fortunate are not benefiting.
Is the Minister aware of the statement made this morning by the chairman of Bord na Gaeilge on the forthcoming Green Paper on Education? It has been reported that the role or standing of the Irish language will be completely downgraded in that paper? Will the Green Paper be published before Christmas or will it be postponed until the Minister can have another look at the recommendations?
I understand that Mr. Mac Aonghusa made that statement in my county yesterday but I am not aware of the basis on which he gathered that information.
(Carlow-Kilkenny): Has there been a change in attitude in the Department since the Minister took over in relation to the introduction of a foreign language in primary schools? When his predecessor reacted in a positive manner over 12 months ago I said I hoped primary teachers, the Jacks and Jacquelines of the trade, would not be expected at perhaps 50 years of age to take up a language and that preparations would be made to teach languages in a proper fashion in primary schools? May I take it from what the Minister said that the concept of introducing a foreign language in primary schools is now dead?
I did not state that. What I said was that it should be one of my priorities to bring the disadvantaged up to those who are considered average or above average.
The disadvantaged can learn French as well as maths or any other subject.
It is a question of resources.
The resources necessary to carry out such a programme are not freely available but it would be desirable at some date in the future.
Will the Minister agree that what he said in relation to bringing people from outside to teach modern languages is largely inaccurate in view of the fact that at this moment 12 people from St. Patrick's College, Drumcondra and from Limerick are in France for a year, as part of their training? They will return to finish their third year next year. The obvious thing to do would be to deploy these people, when trained, to see if the experiment would work on a pilot basis?
I accept what Deputy Higgins said but, as Deputy Browne said, men of his age will not be easily retrained.
(Carlow-Kilkenny): The Minister should be careful.
The Deputy is assuming that it will not be easy to retrain them. If extra teachers are to be made available, I would see my Department attaching priority to the need to provide remedial teachers.
Is the Minister aware that many well-off parents are making private arrangements to have their children taught foreign languages while attending primary school and that in the absence of foreign languages in primary schools those children will have an advantage when they enter second level schools? Those pupils who do not have the means which would allow them to learn foreign languages while attending primary school will be placed at a permanent disadvantage as they go through the schooling system.
I agree with the Deputy when he says that such pupils will have an advanatage over those who start to learn a language at age 12 but the curriculum review body decided against the introduction of foreign languages because of the pressures already on primary schools. I have taken their advice on the matter. I said that if extra teachers are available they should be remedial teachers and not necessarily teachers of foreign languages.
A final question from Deputy Howlin.
To ensure clarity on this matter may I ask the Minister if he accepts that it would be desirable to introduce another continential language at primary level and, if so, what concrete steps has he taken or does he propose to take to achieve this objective, even on a pilot basis?
I accept that it would be desirable at some date in the future when the necessary resources and facilities are available.
