Dáil Éireann debate -
Thursday, 5 Dec 1991

Vol. 414 No. 2

Order of Business.

The Taoiseach

It is proposed to take Nos. 12, 16 and 17.

It is also proposed, notwithstanding anything in Standing Orders, that:

1. No. 12 shall be decided without debate.

2. The Dáil shall meet tomorrow at 10.30 a.m. and shall adjourn not later than 4 p.m.

3. Subject to No. 12 being agreed, the Supplementary Estimates to which No. 12 refers shall be taken tomorrow and the following arrangements shall apply:

(a) The Question necessary to bring the proceedings on Vote 21 to a conclusion shall be put not later than 1.30 p.m.

(b) Votes 28 and 29, shall be moved together and shall be brought to a conclusion not later than 4 p.m. by one Question.

(c) Notwithstanding Standing Order 44 a Minister of State may be called on a second time to reply to the debate on Votes 28 and 29.

(d) In each case, the speech of each Member called on shall not exceed 20 minutes and the speech of the Minister or Minister of State replying to the debate shall not exceed ten minutes and

(e) Any division demanded tomorrow shall be postponed until 6.45 p.m. on Wednesday next.

An Ceann Comhairle

Is the proposal that No. 12 be decided without debate satisfactory? Agreed. Is the proposal for tomorrow's sitting satisfactory? Agreed. Are the proposals for dealing with No. 12 in respect of Votes 21, 28 and 29 agreed? Agreed.

Mr. J. Mitchell

I welcome the Taoiseach back from the Summit and express the hope that he did not find it a bore meeting a Prime Minister whose agenda is obviously so short and whose timescale is so limited. Will he tell the House when the Christmas recess will begin and when we will resume?

An Ceann Comhairle

I am not sure if this is appropriate now.

The Taoiseach

These announcements will be made in the normal way in due course.

Mr. Quinn

Does the Taoiseach propose to give specific time to the House next week to report on the meeting with Prime Minister Major?

The Taoiseach

I have dealt already with that. It is not customary to report on meetings of that kind.

Mr. Quinn

I know that it is not customary, but in view of the outcome of the meeting I was wondering if the Taoiseach was prepared to break with custom. He has not been so constrained in the past. I take it the Taoiseach does not propose to make a specific report.

Mr. J. Mitchell

I would draw the Taoiseach's attention to the fact that statements were made to the House in December 1980 following the last meeting here with a British Prime Minister. Would he not follow that precedent?

An Ceann Comhairle

We have had an answer to that question.

Mr. Shatter

No teapots were presented this time.

Mr. Deasy

Two tightrope walkers.

Tomás Mac Giolla

Will the Taoiseach confirm that all Stages of the ministerial pensions Bill will be taken before the recess? It has not been printed and is not listed for next week.

The Taoiseach

I understand that has been agreed by the Whips.

Tomás Mac Giolla

When will it be published and when will it be taken?

The Taoiseach

I am not sure. It will be published as soon as possible. I understand the taking of it has been agreed by the Whips.

Mr. T. O'Sullivan

Do the Taoiseach and the Minister for Labour intend to take any steps to resolve the dispute at Dublin port which is leading to chaos?

An Ceann Comhairle

I am sorry, Deputy. I thought you had something relevant to raise. That matter can be raised at a more appropriate time.

Mr. T. O'Sullivan

There is chaos in the port of Dublin.

An Ceann Comhairle

That may be so.

Mr. Quinn

When a Corkman is concerned about Dublin, that is really serious.

Mr. Yates

Would the Taoiseach clarify the position in relation to No. 8 on today's Order Paper, the B & I Line Bill, copies of which were received by Deputies this morning? The revised management buy-out proposal was received by the Government only yesterday, at 3.30 p.m. Will the Taoiseach confirm that the Government made a decision last night on the sale and that basically the unions have been wasting their time in putting together a deal?

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy Yates knows full well the procedure at this time. He may not proceed.

Mr. Yates

What I am asking——

An Ceann Comhairle

Please do not show defiance to the Chair.

Mr. Yates

May I ask——

An Ceann Comhairle

No, Deputy. You may ask at an appropriate time.

Mr. Yates

——if the Minister will make a statement to the House today as to who is to buy B & I?

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy is being most disorderly.

Mr. Yates

Is it to be sold to the Irish Continental Group? Will a full statement be made?

An Ceann Comhairle

Resume your seat and desist, Deputy, or leave the House.

Mr. Yates

Will a statement be made? The unions were totally set up.

An Ceann Comhairle

I call Deputy Howlin.

Mr. Shatter

The Ceann Comhairle has protected the Government again.

Minister for the Marine (Mr. Wilson)

That is a disgrace.

(Interruptions.)

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy Shatter, you have insulted the Chair many times. You are not getting away with it now. You will withdraw unreservedly that foul imputation or leave the House.

Mr. Shatter

If you allowed Members on this side of the House to raise——

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy Shatter, withdraw that remark or leave the House.

Mr. Shatter

Any remark I made which caused you any——

An Ceann Comhairle

This is disgraceful.

Mr. Shatter

I happily withdraw the remark.

An Ceann Comhairle

Unreservedly.

Mr. Shatter

I have withdraw the remark, Sir.

Mr. Yates

On a point of order, is it not in order——

An Ceann Comhairle

I am not having any point of order——

Mr. Yates

——for Members on this side of the House——

An Ceann Comhairle

I am not entertaining a point of order in respect of disorder. I am calling Deputy Howlin.

Mr. Howlin

Is the Taoiseach aware of the commitment given in the House yesterday by the Tánaiste that the local elections for the sub-county tier would go ahead next June?

Minister for the Marine (Mr. Wilson)

I said next year.

Mr. Quinn

Nineteen ninety-two.

Mr. Howlin

Will they not take place in June?

Mr. Wilson

I did not say next June; I said next year.

Mr. Farrelly

Another load of rubbish.

Mr. Howlin

Can the Minister confirm that the legislative framework to allow them to go ahead next year will be in place?

A Deputy

It is doubtful.

The Taoiseach

I dealt with that on a number of occasions.

(Interruptions.)

The Taoiseach

I have indicated that it is the Government's intention to introduce the necessary legislation.

Mr. Howlin

Finally, by way of clarification may I ask the Taoiseach — the Minister for the Environment said that the elections would be held in June — if he can confirm the months next year when the local elections for the sub-county tier will be held.

The Taoiseach

That is a different question.

Mr. Shatter

We should ask the former Minister for the Environment on the back seat.

Mr. Flynn

Thank you, Alan.

An Ceann Comhairle

Members should restrain themselves. Deputy Farrelly.

Mr. Shatter

I miss you.

Mr. Flynn

Do not leave the House under any circumstances.

Mr. Shatter

We had a great relationship.

Mr. Farrelly

In reply to a parliamentary question from me the Minister for Agriculture and Food informed me that new draft regulations in relation to the 1988 Abattoirs Act would be introduced. May I ask the Taoiseach when those regulations will be introduced?

An Ceann Comhairle

The Deputy should put down a question on the matter.

Mr. Farrelly

I did but I did not get a satisfactory response.

An Ceann Comhairle

This is not the appropriate time to raise it, Deputy.

Mr. Durkan

Legislation is promised.

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy Pádraic McCormack.

Mr. Farrelly

Legislation is promised.

An Ceann Comhairle

If legislation has been promised it can be replied to.

Mr. Farrelly

It has been promised.

Mr. Durkan

Will the new Minister step forward?

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy Pádraic McCormack.

Mr. J. Mitchell

Can the Deputy have an answer to his question?

An Ceann Comhairle

That is not the responsibility of the Ceann Comhairle.

Mr. Yates

It is promised legislation.

Mr. Dukes

It is promised legislation and we are entitled to a response.

An Ceann Comhairle

If Deputy McCormack does not respond immediately I shall call another Deputy.

Mr. McCormack

I seek you guidance, a Cheann Comhairle, in regard to my Parliamentary Question No. 107 to the Minister for Education yesterday who informed me——

An Ceann Comhairle

I am sorry, Deputy McCormack, but you may not raise this issue now.

Mr. McCormack

This is a very important matter.

An Ceann Comhairle

My office will help the Deputy.

Mr. McCormack

This is a very important matter in view of the fact that the Minister of State at the Department of Education——

An Ceann Comhairle

My office will help you to clarify matters. Deputy Richard Bruton.

Mr. McCormack

——in an article in the Connacht Tribune gave an answer to this question in advance of a reply being given to me in this House. This is happening on a regular basis——

An Ceann Comhairle

Resume your seat, Deputy.

Mr. McCormack

If I put down a question it is answered in advance in the Connacht Tribune by the Minister of State——

An Ceann Comhairle

Please, Deputy, resume your seat.

(Interruptions.)

Mr. McCormack

Two different answers are given——

An Ceann Comhairle

I call Deputy Richard Bruton. Please, Deputy, resume your seat.

Mr. McCormack

I will not tolerate this. The Minister of State said that £2 million would be provided while the Minister said that there can be no funding. They are giving different information. Who is telling the truth?

An Ceann Comhairle

That is enough of your disorderly conduct, Deputy McCormack. Resume your seat forthwith.

Mr. McCormack

I am satisfied——

An Ceann Comhairle

For the second time, resume your seat.

Mr. McCormack

I am satisfied that I have exposed this evil plan and I will expose it in the Connacht Tribune this week. There cannot be two answers to the one question.

(Interruptions.)

Mr. Farrelly

One is a set-aside answer.

An Ceann Comhairle

Deputy Richard Bruton.

Mr. R. Bruton

May I ask the Taoiseach the timescale for the proposed legislation in the mental illness area? The Minister for Health indicated in the House that new legislation is forthcoming. Can the Taoiseach give us an indication as to when we are likely to see that legislation?

The Taoiseach

Not at this stage.

Mr. Quinn

May I ask the Taoiseach if he will confirm that the Estimates are now being finalised and that it is the Government's intention to publish them mid-week next week?

The Taoiseach

As I have already undertaken several times in this House, the intention is that the Estimates will be published in order that they may be discussed before the end of this session.

Mr. Quinn

Thank you.