Vol. 414 No. 4
3 Mrs. Barnes asked the Minister for the Marine his views on the position of the Irish Fishermen's Organisation that (1) there are major difficulties for stock conservation in the absence of a standardised European policing system and (2) a centralised Community agency would have the operational and legal means to enforce efficient, effective and impartial control on all fleets; and if he will make a statement on the matter.
I share the concern of the Irish Fishermen's Organisation (IFO) that there are major weaknesses in the Community in enforcing conservation rules. I am aware of the views of that organisation on the best way of tackling those weaknesses. I am not, however, convinced that their proposals necessarily represent the best way forward. Indeed I see, as I shall explain in a moment, some possible serious difficulties with aspects of their suggestions.
By way of background, I should explain that there is serious concern about declining fish stocks in many areas in the Community. This is of special worry to Irish fishermen in that by and larger the decline in stock affecting them is the result of overfishing by non-Irish fishermen. This is especially the case as regards cod and haddock stocks in Area VI to the west of Scotland. The big one is the North Sea but that does not affect us.
The factors explaining the fall in stocks as assessed by the European Commission are basically threefold; large-scale over-capacity in the Community fleet, the inherent difficulties in enforcing fisheries regulations and a lack of commitment by some states to the enforcement effort. It is difficult to disagree in any serious way with this assessment.
Referring back to the IFO proposals, I would support the concept of standardising offences and penalties provided the standardisation involved brings the levels up to Irish levels which are, I understand, among the highest in the Community.
I would have serious reservations at this point about the concept of Ireland ceding its legal responsibilities for enforcement in the Irish zone to a central Community agency. I am not satisfied that such a move would necessarily improve the level of enforcement.
There is no evidence to suggest that a centralised Community agency would enhance stock conservation through greater control. In fact, the point could be made that national administrations are the most competent in this regard and have the most to lose if such control is deficient, although that perspective may vary from state to state depending on the extent to which their fishermen rely on fishing activities in waters which fall under the jurisdiction of other member states.
Looking at our own situation in Ireland, a considerable effort is directed very successfully to the monitoring and control of fishing activities both at sea and on land. Let me take this opportunity to congratulate those involved in our fisheries protection service from my own Department and the Naval Service for a job well done to protect and conserve our valuable fish stocks for this and future generations of fishermen.
Of course no system exists that cannot be improved upon and in this regard my officials are attending a meeting in Brussels today, 10 December, to consider in conjunction with other member states a draft regulation on fisheries control which is aimed at enhancing the protection and conservation of fish stocks in the light of the latest available information on stocks and control measures.
At this stage rather than raising the matter of a centralised agency I would urge that the Commission step up and further develop its monitoring role in inspecting the effectiveness of member states in fulfilling the enforcement function. I have no doubt that the vigorous pursuit of that role by the Commission would have a significant impact.
Would the Minister not agree that this is indeed a matter of great urgency? I am delighted to hear that some of his officials will be taking this point up at the meeting in Brussels. In the meantime would the Minister not agree that there should be a centralised agency? How can we move quickly and effectively towards member states eliminating the different systems of control and penalties that obtain at the moment if there is not a centralised agency? I take the Minister's point that Ireland may be among the highest but, then Ireland is a victim as a result of that. The fisheries inspectorates are only a fraction of the requirements at European level. Can we have a commitment at European level that this will be effectively and immediately addressed? I also take the Minister's point that national legislation is, perhaps, something which we should hold on to, but are the Minister and his Department looking into the legal loophole whereby a conviction of a foreign boat in this country is seen as a first time offence irrespective of the number of times the vessel has been arrested, and what is he doing to prevent it?
The meeting in Brussels today will deal with matters under the heading of control at sea, control of landings, integrated control, information campaigns and so on which shows that both my Department and the Council in general are conscious of the need for very strict controls. An assessment of what has happened over the past 12 months will be an indication of how successful we are at the present moment in our surveillance programme.
In regard to the penalties being imposed — and I think there is another question on the Order Paper about that — they are very severe indeed and result in a very substantial addition to my appropriations-in-aid which I do not refuse at any time.
We must now proceed to other questions.
May I raise a point of order?
No, not now. I will not hear you, Deputy.
I want to protest at the fact that the Minister is giving long, waffling replies to avoid dealing with all the questions.
The Chair is merely administering the rules of this House.
Before I reply to Question No. 6, I reject angrily the suggestion that my replies were not detailed and factual——
Too detailed.
——and designed to address the questions put to me.
The replies were so long we could not get through them all.
I think it is impertinent and contumacious of the Deputy to say that.
