Dáil Éireann debate -
Tuesday, 17 Dec 1991

Adjournment Debate. - Education and Defence Matters.

Mr. Deenihan

In the mid-eighties the Department of Education approved an extension of four permanent classrooms and a general purposes room for Naomh Erc primary school, Kilmoyley, County Kerry. In December 1988, following a meeting between the board of management, the local Oireachtas representatives and the former Minister for Education, Deputy O'Rourke, it was agreed that a modified proposal would be acceptable to the Department of Education and to the board of management. This proposal included the replacement of the existing prefab with two classrooms and extensive restoration work to the existing building which would include two further classrooms, an office, a kitchen and a library. Unfortunately this proposal will still leave the school without a general purposes room. The board of management in their frustration had no option but to accept this compromise.

The prefab was provided in 1967 and is about to disintegrate. In January 1990 a window was blown in during a period of strong winds. This could recur at any time. Over 25 pupils, junior and senior infants, use the prefab as a classroom. It is totally unsuitable for these young children. I am not exaggerating. The officials of the Office of Public Works, and Dr. Lucas and Dr. Jackson of the Southern Health Board have agreed that the prefab and the existing school building are substandard.

All the preparatory work has been done and the necessary documentation is with the Department. I ask the Minister to allow the project go to tender immediately and ensure that financial provision is made for the extension in 1992.

Mr. F. Fahey

I am glad Deputy Deenihan has given me the opportunity to make the position of the above school clear to the House and also to the parents and pupils of Glenderry, County Kerry. The provision of an extension of two classrooms and a general purposes room has been approved.

However, due to a changed financial climate and the demands on the capital for national schools it was not possible to advance the above extension. Added to the above considerations, the number of pupils attending the school and future enrolments have shown a marked decline. The numbers have decreased from 172 enrolments in 1989 to 136 enrolments in September 1991. The school has five teachers in five classrooms. Due to the fact that some of the classrooms are on the small side an extension of a classroom has been approved, together with a staff room and a library-medical room. This scheme is at sketch scheme planning stage.

I would not consider this a priority case as there are sufficient classrooms for the school. However, when the sketch scheme is completed a decision will be taken on the way forward, bearing in mind the demands on available capital together with the numbers of other projects on hands. The chairman of the board of management will then be consulted and given advice on the necessary steps by my Department.

This is down the priority list. A number of schools in Kerry have been improved in recent years. I take the point the Deputy makes and will look at the matter again.

Mr. Finucane

I wish to raise the serious situation in relation to the condition of Adare girls' national school in County Limerick. Adare is known nationally as a beautiful village but the conditions under which the teachers and pupils have to operate in Adare can only be described as primitive. The school was founded in 1850. There are four classrooms and a spare room. The spare room is used by the remedial teacher and also as a staff room.

The rooms are small and there is a high noise level due to the type of partitions and the structure. There is no fire exit in the school and any fire chief would consider its condition totally unsatisfactory and a fire hazard. The outside toilets are primitive, have a galvanised roof and the toilets do not flush on occasions. Those unsatisfactory conditions have attracted rats.

There is serious overcrowding in the classrooms. I raised this issue with the Minister on 4 December last. The cost of the extension and reconstruction has been estimated at £100,000. A dynamic parents committee raised school contributions over 15 per cent of the estimated cost. Planning permission has been approved and the Office of Public Works and the Department of Education have approved the project. It was anticipated that the project would go to tender last year, but this did not materialise. The pupils and the parents anxiously await the Minister's approval for this project to go to tender.

I trust the Minister will recognise the primitive school that exists in Ireland's prettiest village, take appropriate action and approve this project for tender. I look forward to the Minister's reply.

Mr. F. Fahey

I accept the point the Deputy made in regard to Adare. It is a priority case and is ready to go to tender. The Deputy will be aware that discussions with the Department of Finance in regard to next year's budget have just been completed with the announcement of the Estimates today. I have not yet had the opportunity of examining the allocation for primary school buildings next year. Bearing in mind that there are a number of school projects at a similar stage to the Adare project, that there are a number of school boards of management vying for the limited amount of resources which will be available next year and that each board of management makes the case that their school is deserving of special consideration, the onus falls on me to ensure that each case receives due consideration.

I assure the Deputy that every consideration will be given to allowing the Adare girls' primary school to go to tender next year, if at all possible. I accept the very fair case the Deputy has continually made in respect of this school and the need to provide permanent walled divisions between classrooms, as well as modern facilities and adequate fire safety standards in keeping with the stringent legislation laid down by the authorities for the safety of pupils in national schools. I accept the urgency of this case and I assure the Deputy that I will do everything possible to get the job out to tender in the coming year.

Mr. McCormack

I welcome the opportunity to highlight a problem of grave concern to parents, teachers and pupils in regard to the national school at Kinvara. The Sisters of Mercy first came to Kinvara in 1879 and set up a girls' school. In 1904 it was re-roofed and in 1970 the then boys' school in Kinvara was amalgamated with the girls' school on this site. One prefab building was purchased then and a second about seven years ago.

Unfortunately the latter was secondhand, in very bad condition and there are very serious problems with it now. The school has 180 pupils and six teachers. A campaign has been going on since 1987 to have an extension built and refurbishment of the old building carried out.

I visited the school recently at the request of the parents and was shocked by what I saw. The roofs of the prefabs leak very badly on wet days. Water running down the walls makes it too dangerous to use light switches. There are holes in the floor large enough for a child to fall into. Children of both sexes are using the same toilets.

The parents consider the condition of the school to be a serious health hazard. Planning permission for the refurbishment and extension has been sought and received by the manager. Even the children have written to the Minister requesting that the work proceed. I tabled a parliamentary question on this matter on 3 December and was told that the question of the invitation of tenders would be considered in the context of the 1992 budgetary situation. The Minister went on to say that he was not in a position to say when building work would commence.

I should like to ask the Minister of State, who represents the same constituency, if he will use his influence to ensure that tender documents are accepted and provision is made for this school in the 1992 budget. The Minister of State availed of an opportunity in theConnacht Tribune last week to respond to my invitation to outline what he was doing in regard to this school. However, in that very good contribution he forgot to say what he has been doing since 1987. He suddenly got very interested in the matter when I raised it in the Dáil. I welcome his response and ask him to state when building works will commence.

Mr. F. Fahey

I am delighted to have the opportunity to inform Deputy McCormack that since 1987 I have been trying to clear up the mess left in Galway by him and his party——

Mr. McCormack

I was not there in 1987.

Mr. F. Fahey

I did not interrupt the Deputy. The same did not happen in the constituencies of other members of his party. Over 50 schools in west Galway, the constituency Deputy McCormack and I represent, were in need of major refurbishment. Since then we have carried out major refurbishments and built extensions in the case of 19 national schools — Tyrellan Heights, Athenry, Kilcoona, Clifden Central, Oranmore, Corofin, Spiddal, Letterfrack, Annaghdown, Scoil Iognaid, Carabane, Lisheenkyle, Maree, Killeeneen, Ballyglass, Douras, Clydagh, Claren, Spiddal and Clanbur.

Mr. McCormack

Since I was elected——

An Ceann Comhairle

Order, please.

Mr. F. Fahey

I did not interrupt Deputy McCormack and I ask him to listen while I outline the problem in relation to Kinvara national school.

Mr. McCormack

The Minister should answer the question.

Mr. F. Fahey

Refurbishments have been carried out and extensions built in the case of 19 schools. Major improvements have been carried out to approximately 15 other schools such as Moycullen which was agreed last week. Unfortunately, a number of schools — Ballinderreen, Coldwood, St. Joseph's special, Kinvara, Bolleybeg, Clare-galway and Carnaun — are still in major need of refurbishment.

What I have been doing since 1987 is trying to clear up the mess left in County Galway by Deputy McCormack's party who were in office for five years.

Mr. McCormack

I was not there at the time.

Mr. F. Fahey

They built two or three schools in Galway in five years.

Mr. McCormack

I was not here.

Mr. F. Fahey

The Deputy should not give me that crap.

Mr. Deenihan

The Minister should watch his language.

Mr. F. Fahey

The Deputy should not give me that crap that he was not here.

Mr. McCormack

The Minister is very excited.

Mr. F. Fahey

The position in regard to Kinvara is that from 1983 to 1987 — I want to quote from the Department's file about a period when the Deputy's party were in office——

Mrs. Taylor-Quinn

That was five years ago.

Mr. F. Fahey

The file states that the question of providing a new school or an extension——

Mr. McCormack

The Minister, like the GAA, should be looking forward and not backwards.

An Ceann Comhairle

No interruptions, please.

Mr. F. Fahey

It states that the question of providing a new school or an extension was discussed by the school authorities, the Office of Public Works and the Department. No firm decision or action was taken. That was the position from 1983 to 1987. From 1987 to 1990 nobody from Kinvara approached me even though I am the TD for the area and live eight miles down the road. I was approached by the principal of the school in March 1990 to have the project reactivated. We had to start from the beginning. The Department's architectural staff visited the school in April 1990. We concluded the planning in April 1991 and sent the sketch plans to the parish priest for planning permission. We received planning permission in August, 1991. At present we are in the process of preparing the working drawings for the school. This is probably the fastest development in relation to any school in the country in view of the fact that the parents and board of management did not come to me until March 1990.

The present position is that Kinvara is near the bottom of the list. This is not due to any fault of mine; it is due to inaction by the parents and the board of management. It is my hope — this is all I can say — that at some stage during 1991 we will be able to allow this school to go to tender and to proceed with the construction of this project at some stage during 1993. The reason for this is that there are five schools in Galway ahead of Kinvara in planning. I ask Deputy McCormack to accept that we have carried out major improvements in 19 schools in County Galway over the past four years.

Mr. McCormack

I made representations about every one of them.

Mr. F. Fahey

That is very significant progress. We are clearing up a very serious backlog. Great progress has been made and I ask the Deputy to acknowledge that in the comments he makes locally in regard to Kinvara and other schools. We have almost cleared up the mess——

Mr. Deenihan

The same progress has not been made in relation to schools in other counties during those four years.

Mr. F. Fahey

I make no apologies for that.

Mr. McCormack

It is a pity they did not——

An Ceann Comhairle

I regard interruptions on a very limited debate of this kind comprising of five minutes as very unfair and disorderly.

Mr. Deenihan

On 27 November 1991 a circular was issued from the headquarters of the Southern Command FCA's Sars-field Barracks, Limerick to the OC of each unit in the Southern Command FCA to implement a 25 per cent reduction in the Permanent Defence Force cadre. Unit commanders were advised to immediately initiate the selection process as it was envisaged that the reduction should take place before 1 January 1992. Unit commanders were asked to have their recommendations ready by 13 December.

I understand that this circular was later put on hold. However, it now seems that it will be implemented as originally planned. This will mean the number of Permanent Defence Force personnel attached to the FCA in County Kerry will be reduced by nine. These individuals will probably have to return to Limerick or Cork barracks. It will lead to major upheavals for their families who will suffer not only a loss of income but major family disruption. The net effect will be a further reduction in the effectiveness of the FCA in County Kerry. It will also affect the morale of the force, the quality of the training, the organisation of manoeuvres and so on. The presence of fewer professionals will lead to a decrease in standards.

This reduction in the Permanent Defence Force cadre has given rise to a fear among the FCA that it is Government policy to disband the FCA. This would be a tragedy not only from the point of view of Defence but would be a further blow to rural Ireland. Rather than weakening the Permanent Defence Force and the FCA in County Kerry the Minister should be strengthening the Defence Forces presence in the county for a number of reasons. Tralee Barracks should also be utilised more by the Defence Forces particularly as a training centre.

Minister of State at the Department of Defence (Mr. D. Ahern)

I thank the Deputy for raising this issue as it gives me the opportunity to outline the actual position in regard to this circular.

There are no proposals to reduce the rates of allowance payable to members of the Permanent Defence Force assigned on a full-time basis to FCA units. As the Minister explained to this House in the Adjournment Debate on Thursday last, 12 December, the report of the Commission on Remuneration and Conditions of Service in the Defence Forces highlighted the need for an extensive examination of the present deployment of the Defence Forces and, in this context, the rationalisation of FCA units is being considered.

There are over 900 members of the Permanent Defence Force assigned to the FCA on a full-time basis where they are employed on administrative and training duties. The cost of their pay and allowances amounts to some £16 million per annum. The military authorities have in recent months carried out an examination of how the training and administration of the FCA might be performed on a more cost-effective basis, resulting in more involvement by FCA members in the running of the organisation.

While I can understand that the Permanent Defence Forces personnel assigned to the FCA might be concerned at these developments, I would again point out that there will be no loss of employment for any of them. I would also like to take this opportunity to assure the House that full consideration will be given to the domestic or other difficulties raised by Deputy Deenihan that may arise for individual members of the Permanent Defence Forces by being transferred from their existing locations. Personnel who may be transferred to fill other appointments in the Permanent Defence Forces will, of course, be eligible to receive removal expenses in accordance with Defence Forces regulations.

The cost of the pay and allowances of the Permanent Defence Forces personnel assigned to the FCA is substantial and, in these times of budgetary constraints, it is particularly important to ensure that the most efficient use is made of the resources that are available. While most of the administrative duties will continue to be carried out by Permanent Defence Forces personnel, there will be greater emphasis in the future on the role of FCA personnel in the running of the organisation. In this regard I am satisfied that the members of the FCA will be equal to the task and that the training and administration of the organisation will continue to be performed to the standards necessary for the force to discharge their role.

I am conscious of the necessity to maintain and improve An Forsa Cosanta áitiúil as a viable component of the Defence Forces and I am concerned that the resources available to us should be utilised to the most beneficial effect for that purpose.

The Dáil adjourned at 11.30 p.m. until 10.30 a.m. on Wednesday, 18 December 1991.